The Real Football Thread

[gooner]

I dont think Flamini is terrible. He is just limited, but good at what he does.

Arteta seems to be a much bigger liability, especially against good teams.

Its unfortunate for arsenal that their key players always seem to get injured. And their squad is not really good enough to challenge for the title. They need more depth and rotation.

Flamini was poor for 5 seasons at Milan and in the previous 4 seasons before moving there, he had only one good season at Arsenal. He's very limited but I think he has poor discipline and his technique in tackling is terrible, just look at those two footed lunges off the ground he still does today. If he was anyway a decent player, why hasn't he got capped regularly at international level. He started the season reasonably well in the first few games after signing but he has predictably drifted off in his level of performances since. Like the Kallstrom signing, getting Flamini on a free was just a make do signing. There wasn't exactly a huge queue of clubs to sign him when he was training there as a free agent. Arsenal will go nowhere if they continue along this path in the future.

Agree on Arteta, he had a couple of good seasons but this year he has struggled with the pace of games and his legs are having trouble staying the course of games. Alan Smith said this himself recently and I thought the Oscar goal showed him up in this area where he had trouble in matching the pace of his run to score the goal.

From the highlights tonight, Everton looked excellent and the game in a couple of weeks time against Arsenal will be a crucial one now. Barkley is an excellent player in the making.

 

[The Hitch]

What is this Nations League they are talking about?

 

[Christian]

Hey gooner, I just read a short report on German football site transfermarkt.de, where they quote an article from the Telegraph.

It says Wenger has already agreed to a 2 year extension on his contract, but that Arsenal is nonetheless already preparing for the post-Wenger era.

Candidates so far are Roberto Martínez, Steve Bould, and... Jürgen Klopp (contract with Dortmund until 2018). I will be sad to see Klopp go of course, but I am realistic enough to know that all good things must come to an end, and I'd be happy to see him move on to Arsenal. I think he would be a great fit.

 

[gooner]

Hey gooner, I just read a short report on German football site transfermarkt.de, where they quote an article from the Telegraph.

It says Wenger has already agreed to a 2 year extension on his contract, but that Arsenal is nonetheless already preparing for the post-Wenger era.

Candidates so far are Roberto Martínez, Steve Bould, and... Jürgen Klopp (contract with Dortmund until 2018). I will be sad to see Klopp go of course, but I am realistic enough to know that all good things must come to an end, and I'd be happy to see him move on to Arsenal. I think he would be a great fit.

Christian, like you said that has been mentioned in many outlets now in the British media. It was initially a 3 year but now reduced to 2. I think Wenger is wary of the fans discontent and I think he knows he has lost the backing of a significant amount. I still wouldn't say it was a certainty. I was reading Tim Payton of the Supporters Trust on twitter who was at the Swansea game say that after the game the fans he spoke to, said that change is needed going forward. John Cross who covers Arsenal for The Mirror extensively and goes to all Wenger's press conferences, has been saying for months the contract has been agreed in principle. A lot of Arsenal fans are asking then, why hasn't he signed yet? If he loses the FA Cup final from here his position will become untenable anyway. He must be getting itchy feet now. I mentioned up thread, this is the longest Wenger has gone into the last year by a long way without signing. All his previous extensions were by 3 years and in 2004 the deal was done in October of that season, September 2007 and August 2010. Klopp would be the best candidate but I feel he may stay a bit longer. Martinez would be an excellent one too.

No doubt he wants to stay but with the growing discontent, I think it's putting a lot of hesitancy into it.

I watched Liverpool last night and they, with their smaller wage bill are dispelling the myth that Arsenal don't have the funds to compete.

 

[gooner]

Gullit says Van Gaal has met Daniel Levy and he thinks it's a done deal to Spurs.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26798631

 

[gustienordic]

Klopp would be the best candidate but I feel he may stay a bit longer.

I wonder if that will change if Klopp keeps losing all his good players. If Lewandoski, Reus, and Gundogan all leave, BVB will be severely stripped. Klopp seems to make excellent players out of relatively unknown ones, but still.

 

[Cyivel]

I know not everybody likes him but dang has Pullis done a good job at Palace with a pretty ****ty bunch of players.

 

[Christian]

I wonder if that will change if Klopp keeps losing all his good players. If Lewandoski, Reus, and Gundogan all leave, BVB will be severely stripped. Klopp seems to make excellent players out of relatively unknown ones, but still.

Well he has a contract until 2018, so he'll still be around for a while. It'll be tough in the coming years for sure because they'll certainly lose a lot of players. But they are working towards being able to keep players longer by gradually raising salaries for example, and not offering buy-out clauses anymore.

 

[gooner]

I know not everybody likes him but dang has Pullis done a good job at Palace with a pretty ****ty bunch of players.

Agree.

I watched the game before the Arsenal one and said the exact same thing looking at it. They could have won it by more if they took their chances on the break.

In fairness, credit where it's due.

 

[Christian]

Dear lord, ManU sucks

 

[Christian]

Alright, now we got a game! Way to step it up ManU!

 

[Christian]

Wow, congrats to ManU! Terrible first half, but still some good chances, especially by Wellbeck. Then a great second half - was very nice to see.

 

[Swifty's Cakes]

I'm not on about benefactors. For instance, Hull fans are right to be livid that their owner is trying to change their name. That's a different kettle of fish altogether. Trust me, all clubs would welcome fans abroad. Arsenal Supporters Trust welcome membership from abroad at all times and have Irish in there. These are regular local match goers like Tim Payton their spokesperson. Bayern have a worldwide fan base but the club with it's ownership structure has an identity to it's fans. Similar with a fan owned club like Barca who go out of their way to tap into a worldwide fan base with their "More than a club slogan". These clubs don't go to the US and the Far East in pre season for the good of their health. Swansea are locally owned by the fans and are a shining light in this department. Foreign fans coming in to support the club doesn't change the fact the club is owned locally. I went to Arsenal back in the Highbury days and I don't think I had any influence in taking the club away from the community by doing so. I found any local fans to be welcome at all times. Never had a problem. These were times when Kroenke and Usmanov weren't involved either and the Arsenal Supporters Trust had a bigger influence with a bigger fan share. It was in the days with Hill-Wood, Dein, Edelman and Fiszman(RIP) who are all huge Arsenal fans throughout their life. Back then Lady Nina Bracewell Smith had shares which were passed through generations. Ken Friar is still there today and in those days they still had no problems with foreign fans coming in. It's welcomed and me going over there doesn't change the fact that there was a big identity with the board and the club. I have no influence in the likes of Usmanov and Kroenke investing in Arsenal. In the case of Kroenke, Glazers and Henry, I don't have anytime for absentee owners where I seriously question their motives.

All these clubs including a fan owned club like Swansea are delighted when the international TV rights are sold for massive money abroad and are happy beneficiaries of the big worldwide fan appeal the Premier League has. They are more than happy as in my case to take nearly 60 euros a month which I pay solely for football purposes to get Sky Sports, BT Sport and Setanta Ireland for the 3 o'clock kick-offs.

I agree with some of the modern day football criticisms but mine is more at the authorities who run the game in Europe where the Champions League has created a distortion of competition in the domestic leagues across Europe. The big financial rewards for qualification for the CL gives those teams a greater chance of qualifying the next year and it creates a certain clique and monopoly in the game. In previous eras in the straight knock out with one team qualifying from each country the financial rewards were no way as great as they were today and didn't really have the effect on the domestic leagues. There is too much in a financial reward difference between the clubs in the Europa League and Champions League and it needs to be closed significantly for the greater competition good of the game. It won't happen now as you say, that shipped has sailed and we're stuck with the game we have for good. If Platini comes in and try and forces his hand on the issue there will be a breakaway threatened immediately.

hold on a sec, in the last page you were guaranteeing that local fan groups welcome the revenue from overseas fans. I've given you some reasons based on my experience why many of them don't and you've moved the debate onto why the clubs want it. I agree that the clubs, players, agents and assorted other leeches do want all that lovely revenue, and thats not what I was disputing.

Local fan groups want clubs that belong in their communities, and not in the sense of the charity work they do, but in terms of being accessible to the local fan base that built them up over the first 100 years of their existence before they were turned into global cash cows. I used to go the match twice a week on a paper round when I was a kid, now young lads cant even buy tickets unless its a combined adult/child coming in at 70 quid a pop.
The average age of footy crowds used to be in the 20's and now its the 40's because the local support base that should be coming through and filling the grounds has been priced out by footy tourists gegging into something they have no natural affinity for. Its a joke, but clubs actively promote these fans ahead of locals because they might buy a shirt in the club shop or some other tat.

Don't believe the premier league media hype, what local fans want and what the clubs want aren't the same thing, not be a long chalk.

 

[gooner]

hold on a sec, in the last page you were guaranteeing that local fan groups welcome the revenue from overseas fans. I've given you some reasons based on my experience why many of them don't and you've moved the debate onto why the clubs want it. I agree that the clubs, players, agents and assorted other leeches do want all that lovely revenue, and thats not what I was disputing.

I gave you an example of the AST with Arsenal who also welcome membership from abroad. Swansea is owned by a Supporters Trust of many local fans that have local values at the core of their beliefs. These are clear examples. Swansea are widely praised for this but they are still happy beneficiaries of the world fan base of the PL. They are more than delighted to reap the benefits of the international TV rights like from me paying for Sky, BT and Setanta. All this helps them buy the likes of Bony for 12m.

Local fan groups want clubs that belong in their communities, and not in the sense of the charity work they do, but in terms of being accessible to the local fan base that built them up over the first 100 years of their existence before they were turned into global cash cows. I used to go the match twice a week on a paper round when I was a kid, now young lads cant even buy tickets unless its a combined adult/child coming in at 70 quid a pop.
The average age of footy crowds used to be in the 20's and now its the 40's because the local support base that should be coming through and filling the grounds has been priced out by footy tourists gegging into something they have no natural affinity for. Its a joke, but clubs actively promote these fans ahead of locals because they might buy a shirt in the club shop or some other tat.

Don't believe the premier league media hype, what local fans want and what the clubs want aren't the same thing, not be a long chalk.

The pricing of tickets have nothing got to do me or other foreign fans. If anything the new Sky/BT TV deal should be giving clubs an opportunity to reduce ticket prices with the 70% increase on the previous TV deal. There was also a significant increase in the international rights. Sadly I've heard little about a reduction in ticket prices as a result of this. Secondly I'm no football tourist and I follow it passionately when I watch a game.

You obviously haven't read too much of City's work in the local community.

 

[gooner]

Barcelona - "More than a club"

 

[Amsterhammer]

Barcelona - "More than a club"

I expect the punishment to be reduced on appeal, though God knows what this will mean for the Valdez saga. Barca urgently need(ed) a top goalie.

http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/organisation/news/newsid=2313003/

 

[The Hitch]

Well Operation Puerto already showed barca isn't all it's romanticized to be.

 

[gooner]

We can talk about doping in cycling and sport in general, but this is the biggest issue in football.

http://www.worldsoccer.com/news/former-zenit-st-petersburg-player-claims-bribed-referee

 

[Christian]

Wow, this will have a big effect on European football, I think

 

[Swifty's Cakes]

I gave you an example of the AST with Arsenal who also welcome membership from abroad. Swansea is owned by a Supporters Trust of many local fans that have local values at the core of their beliefs. These are clear examples. Swansea are widely praised for this but they are still happy beneficiaries of the world fan base of the PL. They are more than delighted to reap the benefits of the international TV rights like from me paying for Sky, BT and Setanta. All this helps them buy the likes of Bony for 12m.



The pricing of tickets have nothing got to do me or other foreign fans. If anything the new Sky/BT TV deal should be giving clubs an opportunity to reduce ticket prices with the 70% increase on the previous TV deal. There was also a significant increase in the international rights. Sadly I've heard little about a reduction in ticket prices as a result of this. Secondly I'm no football tourist and I follow it passionately when I watch a game.


You obviously haven't read too much of City's work in the local community.

That is 2 examples, so how do you extrapolate that into a guarantee of what local fan groups want? To me a gaurantee is something absolute and unequivocal so its a bold claim you are making, and one I dispute. Gruding acceptance of what you need to do in order to compete is not the same as welcoming it with open arms.

Ticket prices are a function of demand & supply so of course overseas fans impact that as do the much higher number of UK based fans who latch onto whichever premier league club takes their fancy. The problem is not so much with the demand side of things, its with the clubs targetting the supply aggressively at occasional fans rather than the communities from which they sprang. Thousands of tickets in the hands of travel agents who pay a premium but none available for purchase in person at the ground. Its skewed in one direction and that is away from the historic fan base.

I work with an office full of City fans, so I've heard a fair bit about CITC and a good mate is heavily involved with Everton's In My Heart & In My Soul campaign so I hear a bit about that too, none of it helps with ticket allocations.

Somehow I doubt we are going to reach a consensus on this so I'll make this my last post and we can get back to the actual footy.
Wenger will win you the cup this year.

 

[gooner]

That is 2 examples, so how do you extrapolate that into a guarantee of what local fan groups want? To me a gaurantee is something absolute and unequivocal so its a bold claim you are making, and one I dispute. Gruding acceptance of what you need to do in order to compete is not the same as welcoming it with open arms.

Ticket prices are a function of demand & supply so of course overseas fans impact that as do the much higher number of UK based fans who latch onto whichever premier league club takes their fancy. The problem is not so much with the demand side of things, its with the clubs targetting the supply aggressively at occasional fans rather than the communities from which they sprang. Thousands of tickets in the hands of travel agents who pay a premium but none available for purchase in person at the ground. Its skewed in one direction and that is away from the historic fan base.

I work with an office full of City fans, so I've heard a fair bit about CITC and a good mate is heavily involved with Everton's In My Heart & In My Soul campaign so I hear a bit about that too, none of it helps with ticket allocations.

Somehow I doubt we are going to reach a consensus on this so I'll make this my last post and we can get back to the actual footy.
Wenger will win you the cup this year.

Fulham are another club and there are many more.

Ipswich's ticket prices are a disgrace and they don't have a worldwide fan base. The community work is what helps bring young fans into the club net and is the easy catch area for future support. This will always be prioritised.

I will give you an example of our sport here, GAA. Ticket prices have been criticised and this is a sport that is non existent outside of our borders and counties and clubs are totally linked with a local identity.

On a side note, the GAA just sold 14 of the 45 games televised games to Sky (other 31 are free to air) and it's a very contentious issue of discussion here at the moment. It's really 20 games when you add in both the semis and final in hurling and football but they are also still being shown on free to air over here. It won't effect me but some of the older generation who follow it avidly and probably never got Sky in their lives will have to subscribe to it now to see the 14 games. It will be interesting to see how this plays out and whether this is the start of Sky creating a monopoly on this and increasing the coverage down the road.

People in Britain have an opportunity to watch this in each of the summers for the next 3 years.

I agree we move on and I also think Arsenal will win the Cup.

 

[gooner]

The Times today were serialising a new book on Mourinho. Some interesting stuff from his Madrid days.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...quad-Ive-new-book-The-Special-One-claims.html

 

[Christian]

I didn't see the game - but this must have been a miracle. To beat Real with players like Friedrich (brought back from retirement 6 months ago), Durm (youth player), Kirch (almost no games played in 2 years), Jojic (youth player and very recent transfer) is incredible in itself. I am not sad that it wasn't enough in the end

 

[BigMac]

I didn't see the game - but this must have been a miracle. To beat Real with players like Friedrich (brought back from retirement 6 months ago), Durm (youth player), Kirch (almost no games played in 2 years), Jojic (youth player and very recent transfer) is incredible in itself. I am not sad that it wasn't enough in the end

Dortmund deserved to win. Real was near pathetic. They played like a team from the very bottom of the table against one from the top.

It's like Madrid players have a brainfart everytime they visit Germany. No tactical sence. No intelligence at all. Benzema was the biggest joke on the field. His striker silliness prevented him to assist his team mates at least a couple of times, when he chose to take the shot instead.

The only way for Madrid to reach the final now is if they get Chelsea in the semis.

 

[gooner]

Cavani was pathetic over the two games against Chelsea. How he stayed on the pitch for the whole game ahead of Lavezzi who was their biggest threat, was baffling to say the least. Cavani bottled that chance from Cabaye's great pass. I know he has got a lot of goals in recent seasons but I find he is a very infuriating player where he gives away the ball a lot. He has complained a fair bit about not playing through the middle enough, well he got his chance tonight and blew it. Lucas too would want to learn to pass the ball at the right occasions.

Cavani's a good striker but I think vastly overrated at the same time. Nowhere near in the same breath as Suarez, Ibra, Rooney, Lewandowski, or RVP. When you look at his price tag, he's rated in this company and I think the players mentioned are far more rounded and accomplished. I would even take Diego Costa over him.