The Real Football Thread

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A very frustrating night for England, I said to a friend in the pub that I hoped the early goal wouldn’t change our mindset, and for the first half it didn’t. We looked very good on the counter and caused Italy problems.

Sadly we fell in to the trap that costs so many teams of holding a 1 goal lead and tried to shut out the game for the whole of the second half. Italy fully deserved the goal but I feel sorry for Pickford, who made a brilliant save and the rebound off the post could have gone anywhere but landed straight at Bonucci.

Overall Southgate got it wrong last night, but bigger picture is he’s got a lot right over the past few years. England have a young team who should learn from this and grow with the next tournament only 16 months away.
 
Southgate should take the blame. Purely on talent, the England players were probably the best in the tournament, on par with France. But Southgate's style of play is absolutely horrible. The few times England got forward, you felt the Italian defense was afraid, but they hardly ever did that. Sit back, sit back, sit back. One or two shots on target the entire match? Come on...

I feel for those youngsters missing their penalty kick. Such stupidity to bring on players in the 119th minute just for the penalty series. A tragedy waiting to happen. The more experienced players should've taken their responsibility.
They remind me a little of Belgium before Martinez arrived. The pieces just don't seem to fit into the whole as well as they should. I seriously doubt that they will make a change, but I wouldn't put them in the top tier of favorites for the World Cup based on this tournament. Also, they have gotten 2 straight tournaments with favorable knockout draws. That luck is bound to run out.
 
Never seen such a discrepancy between what is a really likeable team of lads with a manager who is clearly a decent man and the sheer volume of *** heads that seem to be going on the England nowadays.

In 20 years of North End games, although there's been the odd time it's boiled over a bit. I can't remember a single racist comment, it would probably earn you a bit of a leathering in all honesty, Just everywhere last night packed with people being openly racist, smashing town centres up and starting scraps for no reason. I think in the end it just becomes a self-defeating cycle, the mouth breathers become more interested, proper footy fans take one look and think *** that I'll just wait for the season to start instead.

Marcus Rashford means a lot to people around these parts, so I'm glad they took matters into their own hands. I'm just sad that the image we are currently presenting to the world isn't this;


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55 years england fans had to wait
for a winning manager like gareth southgate
for many it may not seem just
that he hardly had the fans trust
he tried but losing in big matches is always englands fate

Mark L

Its just football.

In the semi final they were by far the better team, got a penalty they didn’t deserve but weren’t awarded a penalty they did.

In the final, the were second best against a very good and solid team who deserved the win.

plenty of positives and plenty of lessons that are hopefully learnt ahead of next winter.
 
Mar 31, 2021
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I mean, the Italians had Immobile up-front.

He's not exactly a massive threat. There was no need to stack the defense like that.
Put some more resources up the field imo.

:)
 
He played 5 defenders, with two holding midfields in front.

If they had have had a go at the Italians I think they would have won easily.
I mean, the Italians had Immobile up-front.

He's not exactly a massive threat. There was no need to stack the defense like that.
Put some more resources up the field imo.

:)

Really, mate?? The 3 central defenders were the ones who isolated Immobile.

Face it - Italy was the much better team. They won deservedly. Even after the equalizer as Southgate changed the formation back to 4 defenders the situation on the field didn't change at all. The English players really didn't create anything after their goal - I am not counting Sterling's two lame attempts to dive in the box. IMHO, Italy should have finished England off in regular time.

England - for all the things their government and fans did, they just didn't deserve to win. I mean no disrespect, but I would never support a nation that booes other peoples' national anthems, this is just utterly disgraceful.
 
Especially when that national anthem is so far superior to their own. "God Save the Queen" is a boring dirge, "Il Canto degli Italiani" is comically proud and has that ridiculous key change in the middle.

Still, at least they didn't get the chance to boo "Le Marseillaise", that would have been unforgivable.
 
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Especially when that national anthem is so far superior to their own. "God Save the Queen" is a boring dirge, "Il Canto degli Italiani" is comically proud and has that ridiculous key change in the middle.

Still, at least they didn't get the chance to boo "Le Marseillaise", that would have been unforgivable.
They should just change their athem to "Sweet Caroline", they all seem to prefer it and if you watch enough sports events in the UK one might think that it's already their anthem.
 
No new Barcelona contract for Messi! Wonder if that's it or if it is still a move to put some people under pressure.
According to the club, they can't abide by the financial rules set by La Liga paying Messi's salary with their current debt levels.
Considering the amount of billionaries and oil states funding clubs elsewhere, I can't see that as a move to put pressure on Messi to take a salary cut.
 
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This is Barça paying stupid money for players who are not up to the job of winning stupid prizes after playing stupid games.

Meanwhile, Messi is said to be in shock with no plan B.
Laporta to *** and moan about oil money teams while these teams still operate on a lower wage budget than they do. Real Madrid have made their share of blunders too.

Barcelona paid stupid money to everyone. Messi included. But don't tell the fanatics that.
 
Laporta to *** and moan about oil money teams while these teams still operate on a lower wage budget than they do. Real Madrid have made their share of blunders too.

Barcelona paid stupid money to everyone. Messi included. But don't tell the fanatics that.
True.
Real Madrid has been harshly critisized for how they got rid of their aging divas Raul, Casillas, Cristiano Ronaldo or Sergio Ramos. But so far it looks like they've found a better balance than Barcelona between their blunders and successes, their accounting and their attention to fanatics because their finances are still healthy despite the pandemics crisis.
 
True.
Real Madrid has been harshly critisized for how they got rid of their aging divas Raul, Casillas, Cristiano Ronaldo or Sergio Ramos. But so far it looks like they've found a better balance than Barcelona between their blunders and successes, their accounting and their attention to fanatics because their finances are still healthy despite the pandemics crisis.
Tbh I would consider selling Ronaldo and keeping Bale a blunder, in addition to when they could've gotten rid of Bale to China, in addition to actually having a worse transfer than Coutinho, Dembele or Griezmann in Hazard.
 
Tbh I would consider selling Ronaldo and keeping Bale a blunder, in addition to when they could've gotten rid of Bale to China, in addition to actually having a worse transfer than Coutinho, Dembele or Griezmann in Hazard.
I agree Bale and Hazard are underperformers but the stupid salaries and their associated transfer fees do not always play in favour of both sides of the contract.
However, I didn't see Ronaldo's sale as a bad choice when it happened. When the Football Leaks affair made public the tax avoidance strategies of top players and the tax office went after all of them, Barcelona surrendered to Messi and raised his stupid salary to cover his tax debts. Real Madrid did not surrender to Ronaldo and that's what led Ronaldo to leave, not without getting >100M€ from Juventus. Messi is leaving for free. Looking at the sport achievements of Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus at club level in the last three seasons and the current financial status of Real Madrid and Barcelona I wouldn't say selling Ronaldo was bad business.
 
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Laporta to *** and moan about oil money teams while these teams still operate on a lower wage budget than they do. Real Madrid have made their share of blunders too.

Barcelona paid stupid money to everyone. Messi included. But don't tell the fanatics that.

It's Laporta/FCB playing politics but I don't think this has anything to do with oil money teams. It's about La Liga, La Liga's new deal with CVC Capital Partners and how it relates to long-term plans like the Super League. Plus a shot at the Bartomeu administration as a bonus.
 
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messy! luckily he's so greedy he's unlikely to play in premier league.....

Mark L

Hm, I will never understand all the hate he gets. I suppose the tax fraud and his enormous salary are setting people against him. I don't think of him as a greedy person, though.

Well, I really love him so much, and in the press conference today he was so nice and authentic and really humble again, when it now looks like the club was in the end happy they got rid this way of a player who will only get older. The way they hurried everything in social media and just ended it all of a sudden when hours before Messi had just arrived to sign the new contract, that doesn't look very respectful to me.
 
Hm, I will never understand all the hate he gets. I suppose the tax fraud and his enormous salary are setting people against him. I don't think of him as a greedy person, though.

Well, I really love him so much, and in the press conference today he was so nice and authentic and really humble again, when it now looks like the club was in the end happy they got rid this way of a player who will only get older. The way they hurried everything in social media and just ended it all of a sudden when hours before Messi had just arrived to sign the new contract, that doesn't look very respectful to me.
His father and brother probably are the real greedy ones, but the problem with him is that his 555M + sign on and loyality bonus contract signed in 2017 is the main culprit for the disastrous economic situation Barça is versing in, and in the same year (when Neymar decided to leave) he also started to ask marquee signings every season after every UCL humiliation resulting in almost a billion of euros splashed only in trasnsfer fees. And not forget also the collateral effect of everyone wanting more money because of how much he earned that is not a direct fault of him but still a consequence of what he asked.
 
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Hm, I will never understand all the hate he gets. I suppose the tax fraud and his enormous salary are setting people against him. I don't think of him as a greedy person, though.

Well, I really love him so much, and in the press conference today he was so nice and authentic and really humble again, when it now looks like the club was in the end happy they got rid this way of a player who will only get older. The way they hurried everything in social media and just ended it all of a sudden when hours before Messi had just arrived to sign the new contract, that doesn't look very respectful to me.
Yeah, Messi has been so poorly treated by media and football fans. And tax agencies. Poor guy.

In reality, I've never seen such cult like mass hysteria and religious devotion as for Messi.
 
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Barcelona are due a rebuilding phase. It happens. What they're in right now is a typical position you get in American sports. Look at all the legends who wind up plying their trade somewhere new in the twilight of their careers, because the team they're forever associated with can't afford to hold on to them any longer. Tom Brady at the Bucs, Brett Favre at the Jets and Vikings, Peyton Manning at the Broncos, Jerry Rice at the Raiders, all examples of this. In sports like baseball and hockey where drafting is done pre-college, it's even more severe, as it's harder to guarantee the success of your draft picks, so a team with an elite but aging core will throw assets around aggressively to try to maximise the time with that top talent. Take the Pittsburgh Penguins. They have three iconic players, at least two of which are going to the hall of fame. All of them are well into their 30s now, so the team has mortgaged the future consistently in order to maximise success in the present. But now, injuries have piled up and the cupboards are bare, they have few tangible assets to trade, and those players are only getting further from their prime.

That's where Barcelona have been lately. Although Messi isn't that old, he's accumulated a lot of matches. And over the last few years the team has relentlessly spent on trying to keep the team at the level it was when it wasn't just Messi + supporting cast, but it was a once-in-a-lifetime super-team (run by a guy who plays a spoiling game built around fouling as soon as possession is lost, enabling them to dictate the pace of play). As those players like Iniesta, Puyol and Xavi have aged out, the team has had to throw money at the problem of replacing them because they can't afford, with their demands and Messi's limited peak years, to allow players to bed in for a couple of seasons first. They're still paying instalments (with interest!) on players who came in, didn't succeed and were sold on at a loss. Messi demanded a side that can compete for silverware, and the fans' expectations were that too. La Masia is not producing the same hit-rate as it did ten years ago either, increasing the need to bring players in from elsewhere. Poor asset management is costing them as they fail to cash in on young players until their value has been tanked (e.g. Munir el-Haddadi, who saw the team marginalise him and hurt his value to the point of being thrown away for €1m), while there's been far too much buy-high sell-low in the team's philosophy in the win-now mentality.

But the problem is, football is not like American sport. The hockey teams who throw those assets away in the pursuit of wins will then follow that with a phase where they're unable to compete; they will then auction off all the supporting cast for futures, enabling them to restock the cupboards with draft picks and prospects and not worry too much about being competitive until those players mature. But European sport has jeopardy. You can be relegated if you do that, and to be honest for a team like Barcelona, simply not being the best anymore is enough to upset the fans. For teams whose identity is built around something other than winning, they can ride out the bad times. But Barcelona are at the point in their cycle where they've got no assets left to trade, Messi has reached his mid-30s and isn't getting any better (and his defence, never particularly a strong point, is getting lazier) and the injuries take longer to heal. But American sport works like it does because there's a salary cap to enforce parity, and there's a draft system to prevent permanent dynasties. That serves to put a cap, literally, on the spending that a top team can do, and if they can't fit their Galacticos in that figure, they have to forgo some Galacticos. That doesn't exist in football, and so a team that is threatened with the end of its dynasty can't be stopped from throwing money at preventing that... until the money runs out.

Let's be honest, however well or poorly this has been handled, Barcelona would, in a perfect world, have wanted to hold onto Messi. He's a club legend, and has brought them countless trophies and riches thanks to the eyes from around the world (unlike, say, the Premier League or the Bundesliga where it is distributed more evenly among the division, in Spain the teams negotiate their own TV contracts and the money is shared based on what the teams individually draw, so a team like Barcelona or Real can perpetuate their position at the top by bringing in more TV money than smaller teams). And he obviously doesn't want to up sticks and move around having been settled in one place for so long, and with a club that he literally owes his career to (they gave him the HGH treatment that made him big enough to actually make it as a professional). But Barcelona's finances are such - largely because of the contortions done to retain and to placate Messi, mind you - that they were faced with a hard decision. The money isn't there to keep frittering away on stars, and as Messi gets older and they can depend less on him to provide a one-man show, the more money and resources need to be spent on the supporting cast; money that they don't have and, so far into the red, they can't reasonably ask for, so they had to trim costs. Re-signing Messi, even at a pay cut, would cost so much they'd have to sacrifice so much of their supporting cast that it would make it almost impossible for them to be competitive enough to justify the money being spent on retaining Messi's services at this point in his career. The romanticist in you may hate it, but in reality, Barcelona had little choice - they sacrificed the face of the club to save the club itself.
 
Yeah, Messi has been so poorly treated by media and football fans. And tax agencies. Poor guy.

In reality, I've never seen such cult like mass hysteria and religious devotion as for Messi.

Which is very probably why there is such a backlash and eagerness of people to "set it right". In a way I can understand it. I often feel like that myself with other celebrities, and I remember when I hadn't really seen Messi play in the early years and everyone was like "Messi, Messi", and I was rolling my eyes, and like "oh no, one of those over-hyped youngsters again". I also remember headlines like after a match against man city, "Messi defeats man city on his own" or something like that, which of course is ridiculous and disrespectful against the other players, even Messi is nothing without a team. Also there are some Messi fans who otherwise don't really care much about football.
So, yeah, I can understand that some people are annoyed by this. Two wrongs don't make it right, though. There seems to be a will to measure him by the standards of an angel, something pure and innocent, just football and joy and nothing else. Of course he fails then.
But you just need to read many comments - I'm not really active on social media, so I don't know about the talk there, but I see the articles written about him in German and British media, and I see the comments of people, and they are often full of hate and disgust, and then I honestly don't understand that. You don't have to love him (like me :D ), but he's not an evil person and the comments are often really ugly, and even the serious newspapers at least in Germany have an extremely negative view of him, making him seem like an evil, sneaky little ***, a little tyrann who controls everything, ruins other people's careers because he's jealous of them, doesn't offer much on the pitch but bankrupts Barcelona on his own with his unsatiable greed.
And I think all of that is very wrong, he's just some pretty nice guy who has his flaws like everyone else. And yes, I think the people who write about him like that are treating him badly. He's worshipped too much by some - but also really scapegoated by others.

Now I need to write about Barca's finances, as soon as I find the time. :)