The Real Football Thread

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PSG hasn't exactly been a club where the manager gets the last word over marquee superstars, at least after the Qatari takeover. And they certainly didn't hire Messi to sulk on the bench. As such the notion that Messi is now just one among many equals at his new club sounds rather naive to me. So it's up to Pochettino to work out a system which allows Messi to show his undoubted qualities while hiding his current limitations as best as possible. It's no secret to anyone that when physical abilities are concerned Messi has been past his best for some time now. And given the circumstances of his departure from Barcelona couldn't have been in the best of places emotionally as well.
 
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I'm pretty sure that first of all Pochettino has to win matches, if to win matches Messi has to be taken off the pitch he should take him off. Last week taking him off resulted to be the winning move so he did his job perfectly, if the Emir isn't happy he should put a cuck manager like they did in Barcelona with some random Valverde or Setien and watch the downfall.

Anyway someone should suggest Netflix doing some behind the scenes documentary in the locker room like they did with Movistar, it will be a glorious drama, other than Messi just think about Icardi that is hated by almost everyone, Neymar shenigans, Mbappé that basically is chained there, Donnarumma and Raiola that would be enough already alone.
 
Allegri masterclasses on european nights are back, even with a largely crap Juventus, and "di horto muso" as he likes thanks to Bernardeschi missing a sitter, Adani probably was in shambles and had a terrible meltdown. Yesterday they could have played for hours and Chelsea wouldn't have been able to score.

P.S.: I think that was Evra first and last time as a pundit, after the game he was totally out of control jumping and chanting with Juventus' ultras and doing whatever he wanted while he was live for Prime Video.
 
If you refer to Newcastle it's already a couple of days that the news are showing fans celebrating like they won the world cup, i'm pretty sure 99% of the fans nowadays have as their biggest dream a sheik or an oligarch taking over their favorite club.
 
Allegri did it again "di horto muso" parking the bus even in front of the master of parked bus. If he continues this way like in the old days really bad move from Ronaldo going to an United that the more i watch them the more shite they look, i' m not even sure anymore about being a better place to score goals considering there is no team play and the service for him is very poor.
 
Allegri did it again "di horto muso" parking the bus even in front of the master of parked bus. If he continues this way like in the old days really bad move from Ronaldo going to an United that the more i watch them the more shite they look, i' m not even sure anymore about being a better place to score goals considering there is no team play and the service for him is very poor.
Juve isn't pretty to watch, but Allegri has always been pragmatic and not and ideological hardliner like Guardiola (who seems to be allergic to having strikers who are 180cm or taller on his team) who is able to work with what he has and after a bit of time he usually figures out the most effective way to use them.
Milan is having a good season so far, despite having lots of bad luck in the CL against both Liverpool and Atletico Madrid.
 
Juve isn't pretty to watch, but Allegri has always been pragmatic and not and ideological hardliner like Guardiola (who seems to be allergic to having strikers who are 180cm or taller on his team) who is able to work with what he has and after a bit of time he usually figures out the most effective way to use them.
Milan is having a good season so far, despite having lots of bad luck in the CL against both Liverpool and Atletico Madrid.
When he had a good team he was also able to produce a good play, the 4-2-3-1 he used in 2016-2017 and 2017-2018 was pretty enjoyable but IMHO his biggest strenght is how he can outsmart stronger teams when he has mediocre sides, just think the first CL final he reached, he had a great defence and Pogba at his best but a finished Pirlo, an almost always drunk Vidal and terrible bench options like Ogbonna, de Ceglie, Romulo, Asamoah, Sturaro, Marrone.

This year he probably has at least five teams better than his side in Serie A alone and still he has already won against the best team in Europe and he did that conceding only a couple of shots, without the south Americans out and the fiscal code goalkeeper mistakes he could have been able to beat even the side that are dominating the Serie A at the moment and basically he tanked only the game against Empoli a couple of days after the surprising Ronaldo transfer that likely shocked the team considering that against Udinese they were safely winning before the fiscal code goalkeeper lost his mind again.
 
When he had a good team he was also able to produce a good play, the 4-2-3-1 he used in 2016-2017 and 2017-2018 was pretty enjoyable but IMHO his biggest strenght is how he can outsmart stronger teams when he has mediocre sides, just think the first CL final he reached, he had a great defence and Pogba at his best but a finished Pirlo, an almost always drunk Vidal and terrible bench options like Ogbonna, de Ceglie, Romulo, Asamoah, Sturaro, Marrone.

This year he probably has at least five teams better than his side in Serie A alone and still he has already won against the best team in Europe and he did that conceding only a couple of shots, without the south Americans out and the fiscal code goalkeeper mistakes he could have been able to beat even the side that are dominating the Serie A at the moment and basically he tanked only the game against Empoli a couple of days after the surprising Ronaldo transfer that likely shocked the team considering that against Udinese they were safely winning before the fiscal code goalkeeper lost his mind again.
At this point they should just probably give Perin a chance, he can't be that bad. He used to be pretty good before that nasty shoulder injury.
 
He did it again, "horto muso", catenaccio, freaking de Sciglio MOTM for the second game in a row, Bonucci looks like a world class defender like in the old BBC days, he resetted the fiscal code after the disasterclasses of the beginning of the season, de Ligt finally works, even Bernardeschi has suddenly returned a real football player. If he's going to resuscitate even the corpse of Dybala they should build a statue of him in front of Allianz Stadium....
 
They are lucky they still are on course in the UCL, like i've already said they looked terrible every time i watched them and they probably don't even know how they got 3 points against Villarreal and Atalanta while being totally outplayed. More that the manager they need to sack overrated player like Maguire or Wan Bissaka that are calamities in defence and force other player to be more disciplined, in a top team you can't show up once every ten games and clowning around in the other nine like Pogba does or shoot from every angle don't giving a f**k about team mates like Fernandes does.

If they are going to hire Conte will become even worse, his play is centerpieced around the back three and the wingbacks, the positions in which United have the worse players, all their attacking midfielders and wingers will be useless and Ronaldo will end up like del Piero at Juventus because Conte wants only one ego around, his own.
 
LMAO Felipe. Can we get this ref on, like, every fixture with the pompous, pampered superstar teams that think they're above the rules of the game, to send off all the divers and dissenters?
Sometimes the attempt to cheat is so unhidden and openly cynical, that anything other than the toughest possible penalty suffices. But the handling of the issue of diving in football is so riddled with inconsistencies and even downright hypocrisy it has almost become as big a problem as diving itself. For example, why is gamesmanship mostly being frowned upon when it comes to attacking phase, but largely accepted as a normal part of the game when applied by the defensive side?

Or making the distinction between conning the referee ( when gamesmanship equals cheating) and pulling dirty tricks on opposing players (when that same gamesmanship is mostly accepted as normal part of the game, despite its openly cynical, rule-breaking and occasionaly dangerous nature). All the while the berating and haranguing of those same referees by a gang of players after every meaningful decision going against their team is being accepted as an inevitability, about which nothing can be done about.

To use a cycling analogy for how diving is largely seen in football is to consider every single sticky bottle taken in any bike race equally egregious to the one that got Nibali thrown out of Vuelta 2015. Regardless of the circumstances. And that is having a clear negative effect on refereeing. Attention has shifted from holding a consistent line of officiating to avoiding giving soft fouls and cards (specially in case of red cards and penalties) in an attempt to avoid rewarding diving and giving the game soft appearence. As a result refereeing has become more and more inconsistent, and often far too lenient.

It is no coincidence that out of the top European leagues, the refereeing is clearly at its worst in Premier League, where the outcry over diving (and nostalgia for idealised past that has never really existed) has been the loudest and lasted for longest. No-one wants to see clearly egregious over-the-top playacting being rewarded, but going to the other extreme and demonising everything that could be seen as diving as well as looking for and seeing diving in every single contact, is not exactly the smarter way to approach the issue. The kind of low-brow puritanism that is prevailing currently among football fans does not really do the game and specially the referees any favours.
 
Sometimes the attempt to cheat is so unhidden and openly cynical, that anything other than the toughest possible penalty suffices. But the handling of the issue of diving in football is so riddled with inconsistencies and even downright hypocrisy it has almost become as big a problem as diving itself. For example, why is gamesmanship mostly being frowned upon when it comes to attacking phase, but largely accepted as a normal part of the game when applied by the defensive side?

Or making the distinction between conning the referee ( when gamesmanship equals cheating) and pulling dirty tricks on opposing players (when that same gamesmanship is mostly accepted as normal part of the game, despite its openly cynical, rule-breaking and occasionaly dangerous nature). All the while the berating and haranguing of those same referees by a gang of players after every meaningful decision going against their team is being accepted as an inevitability, about which nothing can be done about.

To use a cycling analogy for how diving is largely seen in football is to consider every single sticky bottle taken in any bike race equally egregious to the one that got Nibali thrown out of Vuelta 2015. Regardless of the circumstances. And that is having a clear negative effect on refereeing. Attention has shifted from holding a consistent line of officiating to avoiding giving soft fouls and cards (specially in case of red cards and penalties) in an attempt to avoid rewarding diving and giving the game soft appearence. As a result refereeing has become more and more inconsistent, and often far too lenient.

It is no coincidence that out of the top European leagues, the refereeing is clearly at its worst in Premier League, where the outcry over diving (and nostalgia for idealised past that has never really existed) has been the loudest and lasted for longest. No-one wants to see clearly egregious over-the-top playacting being rewarded, but going to the other extreme and demonising everything that could be seen as diving as well as looking for and seeing diving in every single contact, is not exactly the smarter way to approach the issue. The kind of low-brow puritanism that is prevailing currently among football fans does not really do the game and specially the referees any favours.
The disrespect of the official I see as the biggest problem. That and the preponderance of forwards among media personalities on the game, who campaign for the striker's 'right to go down', as the exaggerated dive has become more an act of appeal for a free kick than an attempt to actually claim that the contact received was sufficient to cause the response. And the fixation of the sport on protecting the biggest names, as though nobody would go to the matches if a couple of the biggest names were suspended. There are a few things about the way diving has become normalised that I think are bigger problems, however. I wish referees would call those fouls where the attacker deliberately trails a leg or runs with the leg at an unnatural angle in order to catch contact from a defender against the attacking player, since it is them that initiates the contact, and with all the fuss about the handball rules at the moment because of arguing what constitutes an unnatural position, no elite athlete has ever run by dragging their trailing foot along the floor either, so by initiating contact with the defender in an unnatural position, these incidents should be considered the forward fouling the defender rather than vice versa.

You talk of the nostalgic response in the EPL toward an imagined past with no diving, but while this is largely idealised as you say (and rose-tinted nostalgia especially in northern European football for an era where defenders were afforded much more rope to be physical than they are now), for much of the 80s and 90s diving was largely restricted to doing so in order to win free kicks and penalties. The particularly harsh response of fans towards play-acting in the EPL that you mention is also probably a legacy of the style of football. Different regions have their distinctive styles of football that have developed there, and Britain's is "route one", a very direct and physical game often born out of poor weather and heavy surfaces that meant the ball would be kept in the air and physically fought over a lot more than in South America or the Mediterranean countries. As a result I would wager that toughness is valued more highly to traditional fans in that style than in, say, jogo bonito or tiki-taka, and consequently, the act of diving is seen by those fans not just as conniving, but as cowardly too.

I differentiate the basic dive to win a decision from the more recent (last 20-25 years or so) tendency to dive in order to secure unwarranted disciplinary action against the innocent party, which I see as a worse offence. While we can all laugh about and ridicule Rivaldo for being hit in the knee by the ball and going down holding his face, the fact FIFA fined him afterwards doesn't give Hakan Ünsal back the time on the pitch or the Turks the time in fair battle that was robbed of them by that deceit. The laws of the game have been progressively more restrictive on what physicality defenders are able to get away with, and protecting the stars has become paramount to the big money interests at the top of the game, and those few teams that the top players tend to congregate in know that and take advantage of it, and so there is also a bit of a harsher response to incidents where the team already heavily advantaged cheats to get themselves advantaged further.

The berating and haranguing of the referee is a separate (but partly related) issue, and it has been steadily getting worse. Referees are occasionally empowered to respond to players and told to take a zero tolerance approach to dissent, but as soon as one referee takes them up on that and books about 15 players for insolence and disrespect, the press slate the referee for ruining the game, and no other referee dares take a stand lest they get similarly accused. Plus, a bit like the baseball coach that goes out to argue with the umpire and gets tossed from the game to spark some life into his team, sometimes if the players weren't contesting a decision they'd get accused of not caring enough.
 
They are lucky they still are on course in the UCL, like i've already said they looked terrible every time i watched them and they probably don't even know how they got 3 points against Villarreal and Atalanta while being totally outplayed. More that the manager they need to sack overrated player like Maguire or Wan Bissaka that are calamities in defence and force other player to be more disciplined, in a top team you can't show up once every ten games and clowning around in the other nine like Pogba does or shoot from every angle don't giving a f**k about team mates like Fernandes does.

If they are going to hire Conte will become even worse, his play is centerpieced around the back three and the wingbacks, the positions in which United have the worse players, all their attacking midfielders and wingers will be useless and Ronaldo will end up like del Piero at Juventus because Conte wants only one ego around, his own.
With Conte you're also banking on flopping in the UCL, but you're gonna demolish the small domestic teams.
Meanwhile Italy have been looking less than stellar in the recent games. Immobile is just overrated when he isn't playing for Lazio and the whole team is tailored around his playstyle. Italy would really benefit from a bigger, physical striker who can hold the ball and give assists to the quicker, more technical wingers and MF players. A shame that Petagna doesn't get more chances at Napoli, because a workhorse like him would fit the bill perfectly. Juventus would also really benefit from having a striker with that skillset, because Morata is realy not the kind of player who is great at holding the ball (apparently Allegri wanted the team to sign Petagna). I feel like Chiesa, Dybala and Bernardeschi would all benefit from having this kind of physical workhorse striker on the team.
 
This year Immobile looks less dominant even with Lazio now that they play with 4-3-3. In the past i thought that the problem was Mancini alternating him always with Belotti but at the Euro he was the undisputed starter and he still put on a pretty bad showing so i'm starting to believe that he is really a system player. And looking back in the past he also flopped at Dortmund and Sevilla after a first big year with Torino where Ventura was playing with 3-5-2 like Inzaghi at Lazio.

Anyway Italy problem is that a lot of players level fell off a cliff after the Euro, probably because keeping focus after a big win is always difficult, especially if you aren't used to it, maybe some even overperformed. Donnarumma, Jorginho, Locatelli, Barella, Insigne, Chiesa are all worse than last year, some extremely worse, then you have injuries so you have to play with Acerbi that is already mediocre in general and on the top of that isn't able to play in a back four or to use Insigne as central forward.
 
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Napoli finally broke clear taking advantage of Milan's dip in form but for them also losing the overrated one trick pony that looks robbed from track athletics has really been a blessing in disguise, now they can field a sublime player like Mertens and dominate the game instead of wasting chances to launch the runner and probably also Spalletti likes that since his teams always give the best without a big central forward and a less vertical style.

Considering that also Atalanta are improving and recovering from the incredible injury crisis they had and Inter recently don't look really good and are a lot dependant on some players shape maybe is finally time to see a Serie A winner not coming from the historical big three.
 
Napoli finally broke clear taking advantage of Milan's dip in form but for them also losing the overrated one trick pony that looks robbed from track athletics has really been a blessing in disguise, now they can field a sublime player like Mertens and dominate the game instead of wasting chances to launch the runner and probably also Spalletti likes that since his teams always give the best without a big central forward and a less vertical style.

Considering that also Atalanta are improving and recovering from the incredible injury crisis they had and Inter recently don't look really good and are a lot dependant on some players shape maybe is finally time to see a Serie A winner not coming from the historical big three.
And maybe they should also gve Petagna a bit more playtime/the chance to start. The guy's a workhorse and great at holding the ball and helping the other players around him, unlike Osimhen, one of the most overpayed players ever (71M for a guy who "only" scored 13 goals in Ligue 1 as a striker and has never scored more than that in any league, that's just crazy).
 
And maybe they should also gve Petagna a bit more playtime/the chance to start. The guy's a workhorse and great at holding the ball and helping the other players around him, unlike Osimhen, one of the most overpayed players ever (71M for a guy who "only" scored 13 goals in Ligue 1 as a striker and has never scored more than that in any league, that's just crazy).
Petagna is totally out of context with Spalletti, yesterday he put him on for the last half hour or so and was a disaster, totally removed from the team style that was disrupted and the team crumbled after an hour in control, they were lucky that the referee disallowed Sassuolo's late winner and were able to get a point. I'm surprised he never tried Insigne as CF considering that even Mancini did it.

Anyway Osimhen was overpaid because Lille in exchange bought kids from Napoli academy for 30M so everyone balanced the books but the most overpaid Ligue 1 donkey ever is Pepé, last year Arsenal even opened an internal investigation because they didn't know how was possible to throw 80M at him. I'd put him only behind the walking disaster Maguaire bought for 92M by United and even made captain.
 
The Gazzetta reported that French press is destroying Messi for his abysmal displays in Ligue 1, for Tuesday match L'Équipe and Le Parisien gave him 3 (like my math teacher in high school...), questioned how was possible to give him the Ballon d'Or and asked themselves if he is too bad to be real or is a fake. And more drama because Icardi was left out of the party held on Monday night, apparently because of Paredes.