The Real Football Thread

[The Hitch]

Yeah and they get called geniuses even when in cases like Narcisinho blatantly have the mental capacity of a 5 year old.

 

[Amsterhammer]

flood gates opened for the ajax game

That was one of the most awful things I've ever seen. The Ajax goalie was unlucky enough to see two errors punished twice in one game in a way that you usually only see maybe once a season. As it happens, that game was my only live sport last weekend since I celebrated my birthday weekend with concerts on three consecutive days, all of which involved substantial traveling. Major bummer - not so much the loss, but the manner of it.

I still hate Barcelona and wish somebody would blow that smokescreen wide open and get Guardiola out of the game.

I guess you're entitled to hate Barca if you want, but what the hell kind of smokescreen are you talking about and why would you want Bep out of the game?

 

[The Hitch]

I guess you're entitled to hate Barca if you want, but what the hell kind of smokescreen are you talking about and why would you want Bep out of the game?

Op Puerto was rumoured to have had Barca players on the list. In fact French daily Lemonde claimed to have seen documents proving that Dr Fuentes was doping the entire Barcelona team but of course they couldn't prove this so Barca later sued them.

Make of it what you will I don't think Lemonde is the kind of newpaper that would make that up. British Tabloids yeah, but not Lemonde. Thats my view anyway.

As for Guardiola, the guy did actually fail a doping test for Nandrolone. He was later "cleared", though did have a 4 month ban.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/2001/11/23/spain_guardiola_ap/

It was said that testing positive in football is like winning the lottery as they dont even test much, nor do they test for the main substances, so actually having someone who tested positive as your manager is really shady.

Especially since in any other sport he would have been out 2 years minimum no questions asked. And nandrolone was a substance that a lot of footballers were using during the early 2000's so its unlikely he just happened to by accident test positive for the 1 drug a lot of footballers were known to be taking at the time.

Also Barca of course admitted to be giving Messi HGH. So thats both their major faces proven dopers.

Personally I believe that all of top sport has major doping problems and certainatly doubt that its just Barcelona doing, it but anyway, those are I assume the reasons LS said what he did.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Thanks for that, Hitch. I didn't make that connection because I couldn't believe that anyone would be so pathetically petty-minded as to drag up Bep's 10 year old issue, which imho was no big deal, and which has nothing whatsoever to do with Barca's successes, and which is certainly nothing to get your knickers in a twist about 10 years later because the sight of the best football the world has ever seen p!sses you off so much.

If Barca players were clinically involved with Puerto in 2005, which I believe, is not proven, it didn't do them all that much good since their golden era only began in 08-09.

But I don't want to talk about this crap.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Hitch has got the bases covered for me, but yes, Barcelona are shady as all hell and have been for years. Guardiola was a cheat as a player, and is still a cheat now. If it's any consolation to those who are happy to let them get away with it all "because they play such beautiful football" (read, because they pass it about boringly for ten minutes until the opposition are about to fall asleep then cut them apart with a killer pass or ten), I want a number of other coaches and players out of the game too, with the current top names on the list being Cristiano Ronaldo and John Terry.

And I was groaning internally as once more the team with the links to the doctor providing endurance drugs had the strength and resolve to pull out an equaliser after 91 minutes. I came into the game expecting Barcelona to walk over them even despite Athletic being in pretty good form and they were on the verge of defeat before one of those last gasp comebacks. Isn't it neat how the top teams can always do that?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Thanks for that, Hitch. I didn't make that connection because I couldn't believe that anyone would be so pathetically petty-minded as to drag up Bep's 10 year old issue, which imho was no big deal, and which has nothing whatsoever to do with Barca's successes, and which is certainly nothing to get your knickers in a twist about 10 years later because the sight of the best football the world has ever seen p!sses you off so much.

If Barca players were clinically involved with Puerto in 2005, which I believe, is not proven, it didn't do them all that much good since their golden era only began in 08-09.

But I don't want to talk about this crap.

You post on a cycling board. People are happily discussing Lance's 12-year-old drugs tests. The problem is, nobody wants to talk about "this crap", which is why footballers can get away with never being tested. Because it's so much nicer to think "oh well, at least they play pretty football, so let's let them do what the hell they please". Emanuele Sella rode some pretty awesome races, should we let him get away with it cos it looked cool?

Sorry that I get bored of watching the same guys win every week. I get bored of watching them win 3, 4 or 5-0 no matter how pretty the football is, if it's no competition and they can win in their sleep. I got bored of Contador in the Giro too. I'd rather watch two relegation-threatened teams battle a tense match.

We were on the verge of seeing the best cut down to size by a local team for local people, but in the 91st minute they got the equaliser (due mostly to some pretty shoddy defending, I have to say). But I so wanted to see them lose. I want to see Real Madrid, Manchester United, Chelsea, Milan and Internazionale lose too, it's not just some vindictive spat against Barcelona.

 

[Amsterhammer]

You post on a cycling board. People are happily discussing Lance's 12-year-old drugs tests.

Yes they are, in the clinic. Good luck to them, I no longer care to wind myself up about stuff like this from the distant past. I certainly don't expect to see it dragged into the football topic. I can understand your disappointment about your team not winning, but don't demean yourself with such cheap shots at Bep and entirely unsubstantiated allegations about some players from six years ago.

As a lover of the beautiful game, I am not yet tired of watching Barca. I can assure you that in nearly 50 years of watching football I have never seen a team as good as this one. It took most Ajax fans some time to accept that this Barca is even better than the great Ajax of 95, but now we do, without reservation.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Yes they are, in the clinic. Good luck to them, I no longer care to wind myself up about stuff like this from the distant past. I certainly don't expect to see it dragged into the football topic. I can understand your disappointment about your team not winning, but don't demean yourself with such cheap shots at Bep and entirely unsubstantiated allegations about some players from six years ago.

As a lover of the beautiful game, I am not yet tired of watching Barca. I can assure you that in nearly 50 years of watching football I have never seen a team as good as this one. It took most Ajax fans some time to accept that this Barca is even better than the great Ajax of 95, but now we do, without reservation.

NoOooo that Ajax was better.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Well, that was a surprisingly tight game there. Not exactly surprising that the über-doped Barcelona team had more strength in reserve to get the last minute equaliser, but Athletic were just leaking fouls continually in the last 10 minutes and something had to give. Conditions certainly favoured the Basques, and they made the most of it.

I still hate Barcelona and wish somebody would blow that smokescreen wide open and get Guardiola out of the game.

btw libertine, man citeh enquire about Javi Martinez..not trying to sign him just enquire about him..or so they say.

 

[Amsterhammer]

NoOooo that Ajax was better.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I hope that you will accept that those of us who live here and actually saw all the games from the golden Ajax period 94-96 may have a better basis for making such a judgement than you do. After all, it's never easy to admit that another team is better, or more complete, than your own.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

You are entitled to your opinion, but I hope that you will accept that those of us who live here and actually saw all the games from the golden Ajax period 94-96 may have a better basis for making such a judgement than you do. After all, it's never easy to admit that another team is better, or more complete, than your own.

you are right, nothing compares to being on the ground but that doesnt make you a better judge ...anyways ...lets silly arguments, the important thing is we both love football.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

btw libertine, man citeh enquire about Javi Martinez..not trying to sign him just enquire about him..or so they say.

Very good player, but an absolute magnet for yellow cards. Obviously I'd prefer him to stay at Athletic, but perhaps the faster-paced, more physical game in the EPL would suit him.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yes they are, in the clinic. Good luck to them, I no longer care to wind myself up about stuff like this from the distant past. I certainly don't expect to see it dragged into the football topic. I can understand your disappointment about your team not winning, but don't demean yourself with such cheap shots at Bep and entirely unsubstantiated allegations about some players from six years ago.

As a lover of the beautiful game, I am not yet tired of watching Barca. I can assure you that in nearly 50 years of watching football I have never seen a team as good as this one. It took most Ajax fans some time to accept that this Barca is even better than the great Ajax of 95, but now we do, without reservation.

Nowhere did I say that Barcelona weren't an amazing team, or that Guardiola isn't an excellent manager. Those truths are pretty self-evident. But watching them run circles around everybody is only fun up to a point. Once it's clear that they've won the game and the opposition have pretty much given up, it's just filling your boots. It's like the Patriots a few years back, keeping Brady throwing to Moss in the 4th when they're 30 points up - it's just irrelevant and just pouring on the humiliation. I guess at least in football the goal difference can be of importance at the end of a season.

I get very bored by domination, and like to see those who are getting a bit too big cut down to size. This applies in more or less every league I see and in more or less every sport I see. Cheating at a number of levels is institutionalised in football, and Barcelona are no different. It's nice that you can forgive and forget things they've done wrong, but that doesn't mean it's always right to. After all, is Ben Johnson forgiven and forgotten? That guy's sins are more than twice as old, and he's still a walking by-word for cheating. We complain at seeing the same old dodgy guard still in charge in cycling, I don't see why it should be different in football, and certainly the quality of the football they play should not be a factor in whether or not these misdeeds are remembered or no (your two paragraphs were probably a non-sequitur, but on my first reading I read them as logically following on from one another).

I should say... Sunday's match was probably the most entertaining Barcelona match I've seen since the Champions League final. The pitch was waterlogged, fluent football was nigh on impossible to play especially in the second half, and the conditions really didn't suit them. It meant that for once you got Barcelona actually under some pressure, not just waltzing around the other team. The quality of the football was not great compared to the average Athletic game, and absolutely atrocious compared to the usual Barcelona game. But that's why it was good. Because it made it exciting. Either team could have won, and in the end I was furious when Barcelona equalised. If you'd offered most Athletic fans 2-2 at kickoff they'd probably have bitten your hand off, but they left fuming at Barcelona picking up yet another injury time matchsaver. The goal was ugly, the best goal was Athletic's first, some of it was frantic, chaotic and not at all disciplined. But both teams were desperate to get something out of the game.

That, to me, is football. Not some Harlem Globetrotters-esque exhibition game where Barcelona win 5-0. But two teams who really want to win, and really have a chance to.

 

[craig1985]

TBF Internazionale aren't going too well this year and in typical Massimo Moratti fashion, has fired one manager already. I can live with the likes of Udinese being near the top of Serie A, but Juventus and AC Milan? Gah.

Oh yeah, am I the only one who finds it funny/weird seeing Joe Cole play in Ligue 1?

 

[catmiles]

Arsenal fan myself...

Disappointed with the start of the season no doubt, picking up now hopefully get their act fully together soon.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

TBF Internazionale aren't going too well this year and in typical Massimo Moratti fashion, has fired one manager already. I can live with the likes of Udinese being near the top of Serie A, but Juventus and AC Milan? Gah.

Oh yeah, am I the only one who finds it funny/weird seeing Joe Cole play in Ligue 1?

It's weird but Joe Cole is having a good season maybe the most on form english midfield/forward right now. Speaking of AC, Ibra's got a new book... its in italian and swedish ..dunno whether there are plans for an english version.

 

[craig1985]

I would read Ibra's book, I don't know why he wouldn't publish it in English, like all Swede's his English is execellent (or fluent), I'm sure plenty of people would buy the book if it is in English.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Arsenal fan myself...

Disappointed with the start of the season no doubt, picking up now hopefully get their act fully together soon.

after you lost against spurs i think u have won 4 games in a row..not even drawing games lol and the defence looks strong as of now.

 

[Amsterhammer]

But watching them run circles around everybody is only fun up to a point......I guess at least in football the goal difference can be of importance at the end of a season.

I agree - thankfully, they have not won every game 5-0.

I get very bored by domination, and like to see those who are getting a bit too big cut down to size.......Cheating at a number of levels is institutionalised in football, and Barcelona are no different. It's nice that you can forgive and forget things they've done wrong, but that doesn't mean it's always right to. After all, is Ben Johnson forgiven and forgotten? That guy's sins are more than twice as old, and he's still a walking by-word for cheating. We complain at seeing the same old dodgy guard still in charge in cycling, I don't see why it should be different in football, and certainly the quality of the football they play should not be a factor in whether or not these misdeeds are remembered or no.....

I'm with you as far as the natural reaction of any fan against domination by any one team is concerned...on the whole. I have never enjoyed these feelings with my 'first' team, my main team, the team I have supported since 1968, West Ham. I didn't know what hit me when Ajax won everything there was to win in football in 95. I certainly never expected to see such dominating, beautiful football ever again. But I did. I saw even better football from this Barca over the last few seasons, and no true fan can watch Messi without drooling with delight!

I part company with you with your ridiculous comparison of Bep's minor sin with Ben Johnson's. Most of us here were happy to forgive and forget Vino's clinic issue and supported him on his return, yet you won't forgive Guardiola for something that has nothing to do with today's Barca!? You make insinuations about widespread corruption in the game and somehow wish to link these to Barca, which rankles with me. I'm sure that you know more about Spanish football than I do, so I can't argue details with you, but from where I sit the major corruption in football is that den of thieves known as FIFA, including that loathsome capo, Blatter, not Barca or any other individual club.

I do not accept that Barca have achieved their success due to doping!

I should say... Sunday's match was probably the most entertaining Barcelona match I've seen since the Champions League final. The pitch was waterlogged, fluent football was nigh on impossible to play especially in the second half, and the conditions really didn't suit them. It meant that for once you got Barcelona actually under some pressure, not just waltzing around the other team. The quality of the football was not great compared to the average Athletic game, and absolutely atrocious compared to the usual Barcelona game. But that's why it was good. Because it made it exciting. Either team could have won, and in the end I was furious when Barcelona equalised. If you'd offered most Athletic fans 2-2 at kickoff they'd probably have bitten your hand off, but they left fuming at Barcelona picking up yet another injury time matchsaver. The goal was ugly, the best goal was Athletic's first, some of it was frantic, chaotic and not at all disciplined. But both teams were desperate to get something out of the game.

That, to me, is football. Not some Harlem Globetrotters-esque exhibition game where Barcelona win 5-0. But two teams who really want to win, and really have a chance to.

I totally understand where you're coming from here. I too enjoy competitive games and I like to see Barca having to work for a win. A proper game is always better to watch than a mere stroll in the park. This was the first Barca league game this season that I have not watched (I was not home, was at a concert and stupidly forgot to set the Tivo.) Of course, Barca's game suffers in poor conditions or on a bad pitch, and that gives the opposition a small chance, if they're good enough to take it!

I completely understand your frustration at the end too - West Ham have 'lost' seven points after the 90th minute this season.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I can accept all of that, except one point... what makes Guardiola's sin "minor"? As far as I can see it's no different to that of any other doping case. And as you'll have seen, those are rarely black and white, and personal opinion colours a lot of it. Yes, many were happy to have Vino back. But many were not, as evidenced by him being booed to victory in Liège. And doping is sure a sliding scale, from the things like Rui Costa's dodgy supplements at one end to Riccardo Riccò and Bernhard Kohl at the other. You may be happy to say Guardiola's offences were minor. But given how pathetic drugs testing is in football, that he actually got caught at all is indicative that it's not something minor.

Yes, FIFA are the biggest problem by far and away, and need reforming preferably with a full scale rip it up and start again program, but that doesn't mean that other smaller problems aren't problems.

Personally, one of my biggest bugbears with the sport is the joke that is the Champions' League. What a cosy cartel that is. Give several top teams from the biggest leagues spots, ensuring those leagues remain dominant, and turn everyone else into cannon fodder, keeping them sweet by ensuring they get 3 matches at home so they get good gates, but even if they spring a surprise they can't upset the apple cart.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Italy against Poland on friday could be interesting, Italy have never defeated the Poles in Poland.. Hitchey, u planning to watch it on the tube or live stream?

 

[Amsterhammer]

God, I hate these international friendly weeks. Holland vs Switzerland in the ArenA - can't wait.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Spain u21 are 2 goals up inside 10 minutes agaisnt estonia.
http://www.firstrowsports.tv/watch/91158/1/watch-spain-vs-estonia-[u21].html

 

[redstar]

yeah, that milan team was spectacular. but it's hard to compare the teams from different times. football was different then.

ahh, the legendary game in belgrade, when the fog saved milan...

You are right, the legendary game. I was there watching the game. 23 years ago today. And still didn't get over that.

 

[oldborn]

Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll!