- Sep 2, 2024
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- Jun 26, 2020
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Agree. I would say that they were arguablly the 2nd best GC Team this season. Of course Visma had a super shitty season and it wont happen again next year but still, quite some progress.
In addition to the development team you mentioned above I really expect a real performance jump over the next 1-2 years. Dan Bigham comes in and works on the equipment. Together with the aerodynamic department of RedBull I expect a jump in TT. Nutrition should get better with the help of RB as well
I’m not sure that an abundance of sugar-filled overcaffeinated drinks with help with their nutrition.
Last edited:
- Mar 15, 2022
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- 7,180
Armchair Cyclist
Moderator
- Mar 22, 2010
- 14,433
- 10,245
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Couldn't say, but given Roglic's reported stomach issues earlier in the day, he is a brave man to be giving him a shoulder carry.
- May 5, 2010
- 49,844
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So, am I remembering correctly in that they're planning on making a U23 team, to bridge the gap between the Auto Eder Club, and the WT Team?
A full-on conti-level devo-team with the ability to borrow riders between teams?
Or a club team for U23 riders, bit like what the Ag2R and Lotto devo-teams were before this year?
Who's join the team, if such a team is indeed being planned? The guys aging out of the Junior ranks + others to actually have a team, not just five riders?
A full-on conti-level devo-team with the ability to borrow riders between teams?
Or a club team for U23 riders, bit like what the Ag2R and Lotto devo-teams were before this year?
Who's join the team, if such a team is indeed being planned? The guys aging out of the Junior ranks + others to actually have a team, not just five riders?
Have a look here: https://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/b...-lotto-dstny-gespot-bij-testcentrum-red-bull/
On the very bottom is a part about the U23 Team
- Aug 14, 2012
- 4,125
- 5,099
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So far Lorenzo Finn, Adrien Boichis and Luke Tuckwell are rumoured to go there. I think I've seen another names mentioned but don't remember where.
Maybe some of the guys they sent to their partner teams (Lotto Kern-Haus and Tirol) in the past can also join, but don't know if they are justified now. Pajur, Kockelmann and Bárta have joined Lotto Kern-Haus under Florian Monreal, but the results don't make it look like it was a success for any of them. There was a lot of talk over Pajur joining the WT squad after 2 U23 years back in the day, as far as I remember, but there has been barely any improvement over the past years.
Maybe Marco Schrettl is the best of the former Auto Eder boys to be in one of those teams, but will be a last year U23 rider next season and Bora has lots of guys on his skillset, so probably not interest in giving a spot to a 2003 guy.
- Apr 13, 2021
- 6,567
- 17,359
- 17,180
Communication is or was an issue at Bora. Buchmann, Ujtdebroeks, Haller and Schachmann had some options in this direction.
Of course there were a lot of issues with the riders but I think Red Bull/Bora should do a bit better in future in communicating the problems with the riders.
Of course there were a lot of issues with the riders but I think Red Bull/Bora should do a bit better in future in communicating the problems with the riders.
- Sep 5, 2020
- 1,006
- 1,875
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Yes, like the signing a lot as well.
Now it seems that all riders are officially anounced where we heard the rumors. Howerver, even if they resign all their current riders without a contract for next year they have 2 or 3 open slots. I am curious who they will sign additionally. I doubt that they are done
- Sep 12, 2022
- 6,507
- 8,032
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There is one rumour we haven't seen come to fruition yet, but I think we won't see Evenepoel ride for Bora until 2027. I don't think the contract will be paid off, it's just too expensive.
I agree reg. Evenepoel. Denk said he wont pay him out...and for once I believe him regarding this topic.
If the contract has a loop hole for 2026 I can see him riding for Red Bull starting by 2026 (also because Roglic contract is done then). If not 2027 he will change team, I am very confident regarding that.
- Mar 15, 2022
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- 1,362
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We don't know that for sure. There are rumours he signed for 2+1y.
Wandahl rode an impressice WC. A littl to active in the race between 100 - 50 km to go. If he rode more passive maybe he could have been inside the top ten. He is doing well in one day races, but i´m not so sure where to put him exactly.
The season is nearly over, lets see where RB Bora hansgrohe can improve in the next season.
But first what does improve mean? For me improvent would be: more UCI points, more wins (obvious points), developing the existing riders and get a deeper squad and as last point be competitive in one day races.
When it comes to stage races Bora did ok this year. Some very good races (Vuelta, Dauphine, Romandie), some good races (Giro, Tirreno), some ok races (Catalunya) some bad races (tour, Basque, Pologne and Renewi). Of course the Tour de France was a bad race and frustrating that this happens in the most important race, but thats sports. Bory needs to learn out of it and improve to do better next year.
When it comes to one day races Bora did an awful job this year. Just Jordi Meeus and Roger Adria did a good job. Why did the other riders not perform on one day races? I think there are several reasons. Riders that could perform well in (hilly/mountain) one day races had the full focus on stage racing (Roglic, Vlasov, Hindley) and were out of shape in the important one day races. Also was Kämna injured nearly the whole season. He would have been a great rider for heavy one day races. For sprint and classic style one day races Bora didn´t had the squad to perform well. Riders like Denz, Koch, Haller do better as domestiques, so Meeus was the only rider who was competitive in sprint and classic style races and he delivered very well. Welsford had a huge start but then disappeared nearly complete.
What can be done? The most obvious thing is transfers and I think Bora delivered here and adressed a lot of the weaknesses. But I don´t want to talk about the incoming and outgoing riders (I did this in previous posts). I want to talk about highlights and season structure for the existing riders. What can be done that they perform better?
For me a possible solution is to let the rider focus more on races as you did with the Grand Tour riders for Giro (Martinez) and Tour (whole Tour squad). Therefor on big step was to implement the U23 team. Bora can fill, in non world tour races, the gaps with U23 riders and do not have to start with less then seven riders (which happend quite often this year) and some riders do not have to jump from race to race.
For me this means, that riders who still can develope into riders that can win races and deliver results a clear plan needs to be set up (i´m not talking about the Koch, Zwiehoff and Palzer typ of riders).
1. Wandahl: Focus on heavy one day races like Amstel, LBL, Canada races, Bretagne Classic and of course some not so high ranked races. I have the feeling that Wandahl is often there when it gets deep into the race but then misses the last bit, maybe if he gets his first grand tour this can unlock the last bit. Giro or Vuelta would be good to start.
2. Hajek: He showed his potential this year and should take the next step. In my opinion this should be the leadership in smaller stage races (Sibiu tour, Czech Tour, Tour de Hongrie etc). I can see him podium in such races and maybe win a stage or two. And maybe in the Vuelta squad a spot is left (unlikely but maybe due to injury or stuff like that)
3. Herzog: First full year with the pros. He had his up and downs. Pretty promising start in the classics where he showed himself in the breaks, good Tour of Oman, top ten in Milano - Torino (with better tactics a podium would have been possible for him). I think he still needs to figure out what type of rider he is and where his strengths are. For me he is a classic rider that can also survive races with a lot of vertical meters. Due to his background in mountainbiking maybe races like strade Bianchi, Classica Jaen, Paris Tours could be on his list too. So full focus on the spring, ride the classics as domestique to gain experience in this races and also go for results on his own in "smaller" classics, maybe in races like Tro-Bro Léon, Classica Jaen etc. In the second half of the season give him again some stage races like Ethias Tour de Wallonie and Renewi Tour. For me the most important thing with Herzog is to give him some races where he can race for his own results. I have the feeling that he can be a winning rider, but to be a winning rider you need to able to compete for yourself. Because if you are always helping the other riders, you are not able to develop the key skill of winning - making good decisions in the last part of the race.
4. Lipowitz: Co-Leader in a grand tours. For me the best would be the Giro (of course it depends a little bit on the parcours), because if this is not working out he can still adjust for the rest of the season. To dos for the winter: he is good at time trialing but to be in the mix for a Top 5 in a grand tours he needs to improve some more here. Healthy of season and good preparation and I think he is in the mix for a top 5 at the Giro.
5. Adria: He suprised me a lot in the second half of the season. Even his results in the spring (Amstel etc) were promising. But i still don´t know what kind of rider he exactly is. But for me its sure that we should not make a GC rider out of him. I would prefer to develop him into a stage hunter and one day racer that can be a helpful domestique. The combination of a good sprint and the good climbing skills makes him a good fit for this role. Maybe a Hirschi type of rider?
These are the five riders out of the existing squad which I would develop.
Any opinions?
But first what does improve mean? For me improvent would be: more UCI points, more wins (obvious points), developing the existing riders and get a deeper squad and as last point be competitive in one day races.
When it comes to stage races Bora did ok this year. Some very good races (Vuelta, Dauphine, Romandie), some good races (Giro, Tirreno), some ok races (Catalunya) some bad races (tour, Basque, Pologne and Renewi). Of course the Tour de France was a bad race and frustrating that this happens in the most important race, but thats sports. Bory needs to learn out of it and improve to do better next year.
When it comes to one day races Bora did an awful job this year. Just Jordi Meeus and Roger Adria did a good job. Why did the other riders not perform on one day races? I think there are several reasons. Riders that could perform well in (hilly/mountain) one day races had the full focus on stage racing (Roglic, Vlasov, Hindley) and were out of shape in the important one day races. Also was Kämna injured nearly the whole season. He would have been a great rider for heavy one day races. For sprint and classic style one day races Bora didn´t had the squad to perform well. Riders like Denz, Koch, Haller do better as domestiques, so Meeus was the only rider who was competitive in sprint and classic style races and he delivered very well. Welsford had a huge start but then disappeared nearly complete.
What can be done? The most obvious thing is transfers and I think Bora delivered here and adressed a lot of the weaknesses. But I don´t want to talk about the incoming and outgoing riders (I did this in previous posts). I want to talk about highlights and season structure for the existing riders. What can be done that they perform better?
For me a possible solution is to let the rider focus more on races as you did with the Grand Tour riders for Giro (Martinez) and Tour (whole Tour squad). Therefor on big step was to implement the U23 team. Bora can fill, in non world tour races, the gaps with U23 riders and do not have to start with less then seven riders (which happend quite often this year) and some riders do not have to jump from race to race.
For me this means, that riders who still can develope into riders that can win races and deliver results a clear plan needs to be set up (i´m not talking about the Koch, Zwiehoff and Palzer typ of riders).
1. Wandahl: Focus on heavy one day races like Amstel, LBL, Canada races, Bretagne Classic and of course some not so high ranked races. I have the feeling that Wandahl is often there when it gets deep into the race but then misses the last bit, maybe if he gets his first grand tour this can unlock the last bit. Giro or Vuelta would be good to start.
2. Hajek: He showed his potential this year and should take the next step. In my opinion this should be the leadership in smaller stage races (Sibiu tour, Czech Tour, Tour de Hongrie etc). I can see him podium in such races and maybe win a stage or two. And maybe in the Vuelta squad a spot is left (unlikely but maybe due to injury or stuff like that)
3. Herzog: First full year with the pros. He had his up and downs. Pretty promising start in the classics where he showed himself in the breaks, good Tour of Oman, top ten in Milano - Torino (with better tactics a podium would have been possible for him). I think he still needs to figure out what type of rider he is and where his strengths are. For me he is a classic rider that can also survive races with a lot of vertical meters. Due to his background in mountainbiking maybe races like strade Bianchi, Classica Jaen, Paris Tours could be on his list too. So full focus on the spring, ride the classics as domestique to gain experience in this races and also go for results on his own in "smaller" classics, maybe in races like Tro-Bro Léon, Classica Jaen etc. In the second half of the season give him again some stage races like Ethias Tour de Wallonie and Renewi Tour. For me the most important thing with Herzog is to give him some races where he can race for his own results. I have the feeling that he can be a winning rider, but to be a winning rider you need to able to compete for yourself. Because if you are always helping the other riders, you are not able to develop the key skill of winning - making good decisions in the last part of the race.
4. Lipowitz: Co-Leader in a grand tours. For me the best would be the Giro (of course it depends a little bit on the parcours), because if this is not working out he can still adjust for the rest of the season. To dos for the winter: he is good at time trialing but to be in the mix for a Top 5 in a grand tours he needs to improve some more here. Healthy of season and good preparation and I think he is in the mix for a top 5 at the Giro.
5. Adria: He suprised me a lot in the second half of the season. Even his results in the spring (Amstel etc) were promising. But i still don´t know what kind of rider he exactly is. But for me its sure that we should not make a GC rider out of him. I would prefer to develop him into a stage hunter and one day racer that can be a helpful domestique. The combination of a good sprint and the good climbing skills makes him a good fit for this role. Maybe a Hirschi type of rider?
These are the five riders out of the existing squad which I would develop.
Any opinions?
- May 5, 2010
- 49,844
- 28,307
- 28,180
He was suppossed to have done the Giro last year, but broke his femur...
Hopefully next year he'll get his GT debut.
- Aug 31, 2014
- 565
- 257
- 9,980
Agreed!
Now they have no excuse to fail in certain affordable races, now they have better team depth and on top of that the cyclists of the U23 team as support, it cannot be the image that they have sometimes given of going to .Pro and .1 races without a clear leader and concrete objectives, and with only 5 cyclists, leaving a bad image for the potential they have.
Both the sports management that chooses the calendars and the coaches have to work together so that the objectives and peaks of form of possible "class b leaders" are set well in advance as they have managed to do with Aleotti and Slovenia (and we will see if Guangxi), It cannot be that feeling of improvising and filling in free spaces without much sense...
For that they must use young riders who have already shown potential in that (both those they have and those they have signed) and perhaps also with others taking a step back, for example Sobrero perhaps serves more as a leader in a Hirschi-type calendar, than as top domestique for Roglic spending all year doing WT stage racing and concentrations at altitude, because he isn´t really that good in this role and he is quite al-rrounder/punchy climber/good rouleur for easy races.
Now they have no excuse to fail in certain affordable races, now they have better team depth and on top of that the cyclists of the U23 team as support, it cannot be the image that they have sometimes given of going to .Pro and .1 races without a clear leader and concrete objectives, and with only 5 cyclists, leaving a bad image for the potential they have.
Both the sports management that chooses the calendars and the coaches have to work together so that the objectives and peaks of form of possible "class b leaders" are set well in advance as they have managed to do with Aleotti and Slovenia (and we will see if Guangxi), It cannot be that feeling of improvising and filling in free spaces without much sense...
For that they must use young riders who have already shown potential in that (both those they have and those they have signed) and perhaps also with others taking a step back, for example Sobrero perhaps serves more as a leader in a Hirschi-type calendar, than as top domestique for Roglic spending all year doing WT stage racing and concentrations at altitude, because he isn´t really that good in this role and he is quite al-rrounder/punchy climber/good rouleur for easy races.
Can anyone say anything about the level of prospects of the new U23 team?
Obviously the level of the Grenke riders is known but the new ones?
The Spanish one seems interesting
Umfassendes Talentförderungsprogramm: Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe startet neues U23-Team
www.redbullborahansgrohe.com
Obviously the level of the Grenke riders is known but the new ones?
The Spanish one seems interesting
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