Teams & Riders The Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe team thread

[Red Rick]

I think it might be a combination of silly xylophone playing and not even trying to follow an attack by Ayuso due to inattentiveness that might suggest he is not mentally 100%. But it might be a choice for later in the race (I certainly don't think he won't go fully for it in the third week).

Pretty sure he just didn't have legs on on stage 7 and he limited the damage pretty well all things considering. If you're talking about the sprint yesterday, that's just getting blocked by UAE, and maybe he should have anticipated that.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

When did he play a xylophone?

He's a one-man band now.

 

[tobydawq]

When did he play a xylophone?

Lol, while I was never the most musical person, I do in fact know what a xylophone is... Normally...

 

[tobydawq]

Pretty sure he just didn't have legs on on stage 7 and he limited the damage pretty well all things considering. If you're talking about the sprint yesterday, that's just getting blocked by UAE, and maybe he should have anticipated that.

I was talking about stage 7. It seemed like he didn't react at all when all other riders did, and then suddenly he thought, "Oh, right, I should probably do that too" and then he did manage to pass several riders but not enough to really save face.

 

[Red Rick]

I was talking about stage 7. It seemed like he didn't react at all when all other riders did, and then suddenly he thought, "Oh, right, I should probably do that too" and then he did manage to pass several riders but not enough to really save face.

His team went from controlling the break to stopping pacing halfway the stage, I think because Rog didn't feel great.

When Rog doesn't feel good, he'll avoid surges at all costs until he can push to the line. For me the fact that he didn't even get around Bernal who had been dropped from Ayuso's wheel to get the 4 bonus seconds says it all.

 

[ppanther92]

Team was awful today, apart from Pellizzari. Red Bull is doing a pretty shitty job tbh, Bora was stronger when it still had its limited “get the best Germans and Austrians” approach.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Team was awful today, apart from Pellizzari. Red Bull is doing a pretty shitty job tbh, Bora was stronger when it still had its limited “get the best Germans and Austrians” approach.

Moscon was used up early, but how about resting him and Tratnik (the 2 guys needed for this stage) earlier. Have Dani Martinez and Denz do the donkey work on stage 8 instead. Pellizzari did what he could and was a pleasant surprise, Aleotti has never done anything on gravel or cobbles, so I had zero expectations from him.

 

[acm]

Martinez had a mechanical in the first sector, Tratnik was also completely out of position there and Denz brought Pellizzari to the Roglič group after Primož crashed.

https://www.indeleiderstrui.nl/wiel...n-werk-spreken-we-maar-over-1-minuut?twit=267

 

[Filippo_3467]

Moscon was fine. He isn't a rider that can do much anymore though. With this great position you would think a rider can hold on at least to the second group on the road. Tratnik unfortunately seems to also be falling of a cliff. They signed him for Roglic in the moment he seems to can't deliver anymore as a high level domestique. A mec by Martinez is also unfortunate but with his form I don't know if he can be a factor anyway. This looks really bad and also is pretty much in line with what we saw from Pithie, Lazkano, van Gils, van Dijkes and co all year. Only guys really performing are Roglic, Lipowitz and Pellizarri. Honestly the team looked fine on paper but from day to day it looked more shaky. This is the one GT this year where they would have needed a great team seeing Martinez and Tratnik showing up in this form suggests to me that the plan with having both also around Roglic at the Tour backfires.

 

[acm]

Moscon was fine. He isn't a rider that can do much anymore though. With this great position you would think a rider can hold on at least to the second group on the road. Tratnik unfortunately seems to also be falling of a cliff. They signed him for Roglic in the moment he seems to can't deliver anymore as a high level domestique. A mec by Martinez is also unfortunate but with his form I don't know if he can be a factor anyway. This looks really bad and also is pretty much in line with what we saw from Pithie, Lazkano, van Gils, van Dijkes and co all year. Only guys really performing are Roglic, Lipowitz and Pellizarri. Honestly the team looked fine on paper but from day to day it looked more shaky. This is the one GT this year where they would have needed a great team seeing Martinez and Tratnik showing up in this form suggests to me that the plan with having both also around Roglic at the Tour backfires.

Don't write off Tratnik so fast. I don't like that tapd on his left knee from the first stage + he crashed hard on Thursday.

 

[Links2003]

Even if Roglic actually looked good and was at the front: Somehow he is always involved when there is a crash etc. on such stages. What a pity.
Unfortunately, the team wasn't on hand either. Sure, other teams like Ineos were much stronger on paper for today. But it was unfortunate that Roglic was immediately alone. Well, Jai is no longer there, Moscon had already done his job and was praised for it. Martinez certainly wasn't the best on the terrain and probably had a defect. I don't know what happened to Jan, but it was already clear that Aleotti wasn't fit after his crash and was also confirmed by Aldag and Eisel on German Eurosport. Denz would certainly have been expected to stay with Roglic for a while - but at least he pushed Pellizari up to captain. He was then super strong again, probably due to his lack of experience that he was initially left behind. That's completely okay. After that he was really strong, without him Roglic would have been completely out of the race.

I'm curious to see how the tactics will now be implemented - and above all how UAE will act. 4 men in the top 10, at some point they'll have to decide who's the helper and who's the captain. Theoretically, they could ride really aggressively - but I don't think everyone will be allowed to. They might deprive themselves of their greatest strength, which could help RBH and everyone else.

 

[CyclistAbi]

In the time of the crash on stage 9 no team members around, that is something to improve in the future. As for the rest i feel they are improving, like Denz and especially Pellizzari, somebody seems to be there, when needed the most. As for the mountains, there hopefully Martínez to hit the peak. We'll see.

P.S. Obviously at the Tour they will need to level it up some more again.

 

[Remy55]

In the time of the crash on stage 9 no team members around, that is something to improve in the future. As for the rest i feel they are improving, like Denz and especially Pellizzari, somebody seems to be there, when needed the most. As for the mountains, there hopefully Martínez to hit the peak. We'll see.

P.S. Obviously at the Tour they will need to level it up some more again.

If Lipo goes to the Tour, there will be no problem in the high mountains

 

[Mayomaniac]

If Lipo goes to the Tour, there will be no problem in the high mountains

Yeah, Roglic will be a great domestique for him😉

 

[CyclistAbi]

If Lipo goes to the Tour, there will be no problem in the high mountains

It will be interesting to see on who gets selected and on how they perform. It does seem that youngsters are currently offering a bit more of support, compared to seasoned riders. Still, i feel that all will need to level up a bit and then we are talking.

 

[Links2003]

I'm really excited to see who RBH will send to the Tour. Roglic and Tratnik from the Giro team. Lipo. Vlasov was planned so far, but not in shape yet. Martinez was also announced. I could imagine Van Poppel. The last places then from the pool of Fisher-Back / Van Gils / Denz / Lazkano or maybe one of the Dijk brothers?

(Another question: isn't there a separate thread on Roglic, couldn't find one)

 

[CyclistAbi]

(Another question: isn't there a separate thread on Roglic, couldn't find one)

Teams & Riders - Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

I've had this thread in my mind for awhile now. I've just been waiting for his first successful race/stage. 3rd place in a stage in Algarve isn't exactly what you'd call a big success, but with a bad shoulder (he dislocated it at TDU) it's a very nice result and a sign of good things to come...

forum.cyclingnews.com

 

[Links2003]

Before the Giro, I thought that RBH would have one of the strongest teams at the start. UAE is certainly the number 1 for all eventualities. I didn't think it was ideal with Nico, Jan and Gianni 3 men for the flat, but otherwise I thought it wasn't bad at all.

But so far it looks different. Maybe they do the planned tasks, but if a Pedersen leads the peloton today and then Roglic from RBH is even alone at times and in the front with max. 3 helpers, then that doesn't fit. Almost everyone should still be there. Sure, Jai is missing. But it has to be said: Roglic can't save or attack with the team like the team did f.e. with Jai when he won the Giro.

LIDL is the best example of what great teamwork looks like. Everyone rides for everyone else. You get fully involved. You don't save energy. Their success proves them right.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I mean main support rider or better co-leader abandoned the race due to crash, leader banged and bruised, Tratnik some issues with a knee, due to the crash, ... Somehow, for now, they still managing and a youngster more or less always there. Plus there seems to be some reserve left, week three, but obviously ATM in no position to defend the leaders jersey. We'll see.

 

[Mayomaniac]

So apparently Pellizzari took the TT easy, despite feeling good, respecting the teams instructions. When was the last time we have seen such a jump in TT-ability between 2 seasons?

 

[Red Rick]

So apparently Pellizzari took the TT easy, despite feeling good, respecting the teams instructions. When was the last time we have seen such a jump in TT-ability between 2 seasons?

Froome had a bigger gap in ability within the 2011 season alone

 

[pablohidalgo7]

So apparently Pellizzari took the TT easy, despite feeling good, respecting the teams instructions. When was the last time we have seen such a jump in TT-ability between 2 seasons?

Bernal from 2017 and 2018 had quite a jump, it´s just coming from a team with no specific training an no good material to a WT team, I don´t see nothing strange, Giulio is now decent but never will be close to a specialist. Moreover I think that in last year Giro he wasn´t even trying.

Del Toro also progressed a lot cominng into UAE in this area (altough he had far less experience)

 

[search]

Giulio is now decent but never will be close to a specialist. Moreover I think that in last year Giro he wasn´t even trying.

I don't remember when exactly, but he also fell sick around the middle of the race last year. So he probably wasn't at his best for the ITTs either.

 

[Cycling111]

Dani Martinez's performance is very strange.
Last year he was superior to riders like Tiberi.
The year Bernal won the Giro, he was the best domestique of the Giro and in that situation he was fifth.
This year he's one of the first to be dropped.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Dani Martinez's performance is very strange.
Last year he was superior to riders like Tiberi.
The year Bernal won the Giro, he was the best domestique of the Giro and in that situation he was fifth.
This year he's one of the first to be dropped.

I think he was struggling with health issues for a big chunk of the year and his form was therefore always somewhat in doubt. He did a good LBL so I thought his form was going upwards, but apparently not. Race isn't over yet, maybe he'll find some legs. But overall his performance is really a problem after Hindley had to abandon. If Roglic takes back Pink and UAE still have multiple threats in GC, it would be very hard to defend. On the other hand, if he takes it back it probably will be rather late in the Giro, so the chances to attack him might be slim.

Overall the season so far must be pretty disappointing for Bora. Roglic get some good wins in one race, and that's about it so far result wise, exept for the 2 good placements in GC by Lipo.