Teams & Riders The Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe team thread

[Samamba]

Van Gils crashed hard apparently. The bad karma he accumulated last season seems to follow him everywhere this season.

Adria had a mechanical at a bad moment, and Van Dijke and Hajek also crashed today. I think something even happened to FFB in the end too (there were more crashed apparently).

Obviously not what everyone was expecting this season from them. This whole superteam performance increase riders would get was overrated anyways. They've been pretty poor apart from Roglic, but they could use the bad luck factor as an excuse in a lot of races.

Pelizzari also looked good in Catalunya btw, but I wouldn't say he's obviously better than last year. Looking forward to his Giro tho.

 

[YavorD]

Van Gils crashed hard apparently. The bad karma he accumulated last season seems to follow him everywhere this season.

Uijtdebroeks left Bora before his contract expired and look what happened.
Van Gils did the same with Lotto and he isn't very lucky this season....

If I was Widar, I'd stick to my contract like my life depend on it.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Sexy long range defence or sexy long range attack?

It depends, being 1s behind or ahead, Rogla can adapt easily.

 

[Filippo_3467]

Van Gils crashed hard apparently. The bad karma he accumulated last season seems to follow him everywhere this season.

Adria had a mechanical at a bad moment, and Van Dijke and Hajek also crashed today. I think something even happened to FFB in the end too (there were more crashed apparently).

Obviously not what everyone was expecting this season from them. This whole superteam performance increase riders would get was overrated anyways. They've been pretty poor apart from Roglic, but they could use the bad luck factor as an excuse in a lot of races.

Pelizzari also looked good in Catalunya btw, but I wouldn't say he's obviously better than last year. Looking forward to his Giro tho.

Sorry even if there was bad luck today the one day performance of this team is a joke. They have one of the 4 super budgets in cycling and outside of Roglic the performance is just not there. Didn't expect something else today even without a crash they are not competitive at the moment.

 

[Links2003]

There must be some kind of problem within the team, right? What happened to the self-proclaimed Band of Brothers? Sure, the team has changed radically, a lot of money has been brought into the team by Red Bull and that changes a lot of things. But after the disappointing cobblestone races, the team had set its sights on the more mountainous races. The omens weren't good, Adria had a strong year so far, but things didn't go well in the last stage race, just like with Van Gils and Fisher-Back. There may have been a lot of bad luck again today. But nobody expects RBH to be in contention for the win. But with the squad you can't be playing no role at all in many races. Neither in breakaways nor in the finals of the races. If you then see which riders are often still racing for the top 10, several riders from RBH should actually be able to be there.
Especially because apparently many drivers are not in shape and lack confidence. I also don't understand which races RBH is in. UAE shows the way, in small races everyone is allowed to ride on their own account, there is very active riding and you are rewarded for it. RBH does not enter many of these races. They have an inexperienced team. In the classics, you only ride the really big races. Why is that? In the smaller races you gain experience and the chance of good results is higher.
You are there at the Tour of the Alps. In addition to Jai as the leader, they are even relying on two young riders from the junior team. It's great to give them a chance. But these races would also be important for the 29 riders from the actual team.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Some crashes and bad luck involed today, luckily no major injuries.

 

[SafeBet]

Pelizzari also looked good in Catalunya btw, but I wouldn't say he's obviously better than last year. Looking forward to his Giro tho.

Unless something has changed Pellizzari won't ride the Giro, he was never scheduled to do so.
His only GT of the season should be the Vuelta.

 

[Filippo_3467]

There must be some kind of problem within the team, right? What happened to the self-proclaimed Band of Brothers? Sure, the team has changed radically, a lot of money has been brought into the team by Red Bull and that changes a lot of things. But after the disappointing cobblestone races, the team had set its sights on the more mountainous races. The omens weren't good, Adria had a strong year so far, but things didn't go well in the last stage race, just like with Van Gils and Fisher-Back. There may have been a lot of bad luck again today. But nobody expects RBH to be in contention for the win. But with the squad you can't be playing no role at all in many races. Neither in breakaways nor in the finals of the races. If you then see which riders are often still racing for the top 10, several riders from RBH should actually be able to be there.
Especially because apparently many drivers are not in shape and lack confidence. I also don't understand which races RBH is in. UAE shows the way, in small races everyone is allowed to ride on their own account, there is very active riding and you are rewarded for it. RBH does not enter many of these races. They have an inexperienced team. In the classics, you only ride the really big races. Why is that? In the smaller races you gain experience and the chance of good results is higher.
You are there at the Tour of the Alps. In addition to Jai as the leader, they are even relying on two young riders from the junior team. It's great to give them a chance. But these races would also be important for the 29 riders from the actual team.

Ralph Denk really did a great thing by bringing this team into the World Tour and also make German Cycling more relevant again. Kudos to him. He made that possible with two small sponsors (those are not your big companies, lotto/gambling or state sponsors like UAE, Bahrain...) who fully comitted to cycling.

In the same way he fumbled the ball after 2019 when it comes to so many things. The budget increased the performance was there in some cases but overall the team declined quite a bit. That is stopped with the Red Bull cash because the have just so much money that they will win and be a Top 5-6 team. But that's even worse to being that kind of team with the old budget.

With selling out to Red Bull we have to see what it means for German cycling. The already made a bit odd decision through the years which led to them losing almost all relevant german (and austrian) cyclists in there team. They weren't able to keep or sign young german (or Austrian) talent even though they had the money. I don't get there rider selection and the way they approach races. This wasn't a problem in their first years in WT. Maybe they will find a way to be successful. For me just winning the Giro (and other races) with Roglic and not do anything else big all year is not enough. Probably the van Dijkes, van Gils, Lazkano, Tratnik and all the other new riders they got especially for the spring races are half the budget of all of Uno-X and they get smoked week for week. I also don't understand why they basically gave up completely on sprinting. Most sprints are still decided in some form of bigger group sprint. Welsford maybe wins in Australia but nowhere else. Meeus rides a classic schedule and probably no GT. Some of their biggest wins were from having a kickass sprint squad.

 

[Samamba]

Unless something has changed Pellizzari won't ride the Giro, he was never scheduled to do so.
His only GT of the season should be the Vuelta.

I know but there are some rumors fueled by him being on altitude camp with the Giro squad currently and him being on the provisional of Frankfurt (which would mean he skips Romandie) that he's going to the Giro after all, maybe to replace Martinez who doesn't have the required form yet. Roglic might've asked for it after Catalunya.

 

[acm]

I know but there are some rumors fueled by him being on altitude camp with the Giro squad currently and him being on the provisional of Frankfurt (which would mean he skips Romandie) that he's going to the Giro after all, maybe to replace Martinez who doesn't have the required form yet. Roglic might've asked for it after Catalunya.

Martinez said for Columbian media in Itzulia that he's going to the Giro. Sobrero was also planned, but I don't think he'll be ready after the crash. He's not racing nor training at altitude. I'd say that Wandahl and Pellizzari are very likely to go to the Giro.

 

[CyclistAbi]

With selling out to Red Bull we have to see what it means for German cycling. The already made a bit odd decision through the years which led to them losing almost all relevant german (and austrian) cyclists in there team. They weren't able to keep or sign young german (or Austrian) talent even though they had the money.

I don't know if that is such a good idea in the first place, to perceive some team "German" in the sense of responsibility to sign only German riders. If you look at sport in general, more specifically European sport, such as cycling, motorcycling, F1, football ... usually the most successful teams aren't nationalistic in the sense of we are a team from this country hence we need to be on top with people from the same country.

I don't get there rider selection and the way they approach races. This wasn't a problem in their first years in WT. Maybe they will find a way to be successful.

They are now indeed predominantly a stage racing orientated team.

For me just winning the Giro (and other races) with Roglic and not do anything else big all year is not enough.

For Visma and Co. it is/was always enough to win the Tour.

Probably the van Dijkes, van Gils, Lazkano, Tratnik and all the other new riders they got especially for the spring races are half the budget of all of Uno-X and they get smoked week for week. I also don't understand why they basically gave up completely on sprinting. Most sprints are still decided in some form of bigger group sprint. Welsford maybe wins in Australia but nowhere else. Meeus rides a classic schedule and probably no GT. Some of their biggest wins were from having a kickass sprint squad.

Here we are likely being a bit overdramatic. Give this riders a chance first, to fit in the new team structure and the results will come. On top of that they tried with Remco and Wout and both respective riders more or less refused the offer. The idea you can just say OK, we have the money and that resolved the issue of top riders not signing for the team, we will just act nationalistic or sign somebody else, well, good luck with that. Anyway, for now they have Rogla and i am sure will do just fine. And some other riders from the team, current and/or future signings, will for sure up the stakes in the future.

 

[Sciatic]

I don't know if that is such a good idea in the first place, to perceive some team "German" in the sense of responsibility to sign only German riders. If you look at sport in general, more specifically European sport, such as cycling, motorcycling, F1, football ... usually the most successful teams aren't nationalistic in the sense of we are a team from this country hence we need to be on top with people from the same country.

But Filippo didn't say anything about signing "only" German riders. I think there is some value with teams being being associated or identified with a "home" nation and have at least some top riders from that nation. Movistar with Spanish riders, FDJ with French are examples. I think it increases the fan base and also can promote the growth of cycling in that country. A team can do that but not make it all about being the "x" country team, and still have elite riders from other countries.

 

[Filippo_3467]

I don't know if that is such a good idea in the first place, to perceive some team "German" in the sense of responsibility to sign only German riders. If you look at sport in general, more specifically European sport, such as cycling, motorcycling, F1, football ... usually the most successful teams aren't nationalistic in the sense of we are a team from this country hence we need to be on top with people from the same country.



They are now indeed predominantly a stage racing orientated team.



For Visma and Co. it is/was always enough to win the Tour.



Here we are likely being a bit overdramatic. Give this riders a chance first, to fit in the new team structure and the results will come. On top of that they tried with Remco and Wout and both respective riders more or less refused the offer. The idea you can just say OK, we have the money and that resolved the issue of top riders not signing for the team, we will just act nationalistic or sign somebody else, well, good luck with that. Anyway, for now they have Rogla and i am sure will do just fine. And some other riders from the team, current and/or future signings, will for sure up the stakes in the future.

1) no one is talking about german only. there are good German riders that are not getting that good of a chance then Italian and French riders because of - on reason there are others- no German conti or WT team to give them a headstart

2)Red Bull isn't winning the Tour if they would have a rider that is capable of that it is a totally different story.

3) they can have all the time in the world as they have long, expensive contracts to sit out. The signings aren't bad they are just not performing consistently to the level that should be expected which is true for most years since 2020 with the exception of 2022.

 

[CyclistAbi]

But Filippo didn't say anything about signing "only" German riders. I think there is some value with teams being being associated or identified with a "home" nation and have at least some top riders from that nation. Movistar with Spanish riders, FDJ with French are examples. I think it increases the fan base and also can promote the growth of cycling in that country. A team can do that but not make it all about being the "x" country team, and still have elite riders from other countries.

I feel that they are doing a good job with Florian Lipowitz.

 

[LongtimeLurker]

I feel that they are doing a good job with Florian Lipowitz.

I agree with this on Lipowitz looking at each season improvment and to date their Rookie program.
Even in 2023 with Cian the progression he made that season was really good to see and somewhat impressive. Common connection to the above.
Its not all bad I dont think they just need to find consistency in the WT team

 

[CyclistAbi]

1) no one is talking about german only. there are good German riders that are not getting that good of a chance then Italian and French riders because of - on reason there are others- no German conti or WT team to give them a headstart

How long is it now, French nation and beyond longing?

2)Red Bull isn't winning the Tour ...

Who will stop them?

3) they can have all the time in the world as they have long, expensive contracts to sit out. The signings aren't bad they are just not performing consistently to the level that should be expected which is true for most years since 2020 with the exception of 2022.

With Rogla they are in it for the win at biggest stage races in the 2025 season, focusing on anything else then that would in my opinion be a mistake. As for new signings in regards to classics, instant results would come only if they would have signed an already established rider. Having two superstars in the team would likely only lead to clashes in terms of who do you take to the Tour.

 

[Filippo_3467]

How long is it now, French nation and beyond longing?



Who will stop them?



With Rogla they are in it for the win at biggest stage races in the 2025 season, focusing on anything else then that would in my opinion be a mistake. As for new signings in regards to classics, instant results would come only if they would have signed an already established rider. Having two superstars in the team would likely only lead to clashes in terms of who do you take to the Tour.

I don't understand the first sentence but other than that agree to disagree.

I don't think that they can win the Tour with Roglic. To me he's maybe the fourth best rider in contetion for the Tour and with his obvious problems in positioning and crashes (+ he's peaking for the Giro) even a 3rd place would be big success in my eyes. But he's way behind Pogacar and Vingegaard + I thin especially with this years rote you can't get past Evenepoel who loves those classic like stages and was already better last year.

It's totally subjective and I'm not saying he's washed. i'm a fan and I think he will win the Giro which is also the right decision to contest because he can't win the Tour anyways... so yeah as already said to me a Gior win by Roglic is already baked in to my considerations about team performance. Plus I also hink that they can't rely on Roglic in the next two years to deliver a GT per year. he's still great but Pogi, Remco and Jonas are still a thing and I expect others to take a step forward like Ayuso and Jorgensen. We can't solve that now it's just different expectations.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I don't understand the first sentence but other than that agree to disagree.

Considering cycling tradition how long is French nation waiting for successor to one of their grates? This things just have their own way of inner working and the idea Red Bull funding can influence, to some great extent, if the next cycling star will be from Germany or not, that would IMHO be rather counter productive.

I don't think that they can win the Tour with Roglic. To me he's maybe the fourth best rider in contetion for the Tour and with his obvious problems in positioning and crashes (+ he's peaking for the Giro) even a 3rd place would be big success in my eyes. But he's way behind Pogacar and Vingegaard + I thin especially with this years rote you can't get past Evenepoel who loves those classic like stages and was already better last year.

It's totally subjective and I'm not saying he's washed. i'm a fan and I think he will win the Giro which is also the right decision to contest because he can't win the Tour anyways... so yeah as already said to me a Gior win by Roglic is already baked in to my considerations about team performance. Plus I also hink that they can't rely on Roglic in the next two years to deliver a GT per year. he's still great but Pogi, Remco and Jonas are still a thing and I expect others to take a step forward like Ayuso and Jorgensen. We can't solve that now it's just different expectations.

I sort of understand you when looking from this prism of doom and gloom. Relax, last year was a transitional year for Rogla and he already won a GT. It's reasonable to expect season 2025 to be even more fruitful, considering some gains here and there are bound to happen, compared to the 2024 season.

 

[Divergence]

Apart from Rog this team has not performed at all this season. Sure Lipo and Giulio were OK but Vlasov and HIndley are just not where they need to be (at least if we want to call them superdomestiques) and Martinez is nowhere. I hope they will all improve for the Giro but it seems ROg will not have a very good team at the Giro.

 

[Links2003]

Apart from Rog this team has not performed at all this season. Sure Lipo and Giulio were OK but Vlasov and HIndley are just not where they need to be (at least if we want to call them superdomestiques) and Martinez is nowhere. I hope they will all improve for the Giro but it seems ROg will not have a very good team at the Giro.

In my opinion Lipo was more than ok. He is still at the beginning of his professionel career and has a podium in GC and missed a second only because of a crash in 2025.

Roger was also good at some races.

 

[search]

yeah, I think Lipowitz looked good, especially as preparation wasn't ideal, according to his pre-race interviews (if true). But it's about time he also learns some of the tactical parts of bike racing.

 

[Statze2]

I think the biggest problem is, that the expectations are higher compared to the last season. On top of this the new joiners are not performing as they did last year (due to different reasons) and some of the existing riders are not as good as last year at this time (Meeus, Vlasov, Martínez for example). Also the Team is making some things that can be discussed. For example the Race calendar. Would it be better to ride some smaller races to give the riders confidence and there own chances to win that they do not have the high pressure in races like P+R etc? I think the crashes of Pithie are often related to this. Just some chances and then he wants it to much and takes unnecessary risks that lead to crashes and he is not so sure about is form as he has no Race which proved his form.
In Stage races Bora is performing, sometimes not with the expected Rider (Lipowitz instead of Vlasov) but they are always in the fight for Podium.

Two important one day races left in the next days - maybe we will be suprised by a good result but in case of one day races Bora needs to step up for next year. But they have the riders for it, maybe they Need to adjust some things and then they can be easily in the mix.
After that Stage Racing comes to its Full swing and this is full Bora thing. Giro with Roglic and some super strong domestiques should lead to a Podium or a GC win and some Stage wins.

 

[pablohidalgo7]

I think Hindley is also not looking bad at all, good in Tirreno and decent at the moment in ToA, taking in consideration he is more a GT rider than a one week stage racer I believe the sign are positives. Not podium contender level perhaps but can be good in the super-domestique role. Last year he was looking by far worst in Romandia and Dauphiné before the Tour, this year I´m optimistic with him.

 

[Red Rick]

I think Hindley is also not looking bad at all, good in Tirreno and decent at the moment in ToA, taking in consideration he is more a GT rider than a one week stage racer I believe the sign are positives. Not podium contender level perhaps but can be good in the super-domestique role. Last year he was looking by far worst in Romandia and Dauphiné before the Tour, this year I´m optimistic with him.

I still believe in Mythical 3rd Week Hindley.

The question is not who wins the Giro, the question is who is still there when Hindley gets called back because just imploded in his wheel.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Nice 43rd place for Van Gils today. 👏