Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Karl Merckx]

As I recall, he dictated pace a lot but it was only on stage 9 that he rode people off his wheel. He crashed on stage 12 but it was not bad. I’m not saying it didn’t impact him, but he looked the strongest of the GC riders finishing that stage. Mas was quicker on the climbs in aggregate than Remco. Roglic put :56 into him on stage 14 (likely some impact from crash, but also could have been some cumulative fatigue).

Crash impacted him on stage 14, and Mas only gained time on stage 15 because Remco mostly cared about Roglic who was his only real opponent at that point, Mas being almost 3min behind.

 

[Volderke]

As I recall, he dictated pace a lot but it was only on stage 9 that he rode people off his wheel. He crashed on stage 12 but it was not bad. I’m not saying it didn’t impact him, but he looked the strongest of the GC riders finishing that stage. Mas was quicker on the climbs in aggregate than Remco. Roglic put :56 into him on stage 14 (likely some impact from crash, but also could have been some cumulative fatigue).

Aaah, it's good to bring back memories when Remco was still capable of winning GT's... The good ol' days!

To make sure the memories are memorable, it's important to emphasize Remco's greatness back in those days:

As I remember, Remco smashed the competition almost on every climb, and it started way earlier, on stage 6, with Pico Jano:

La Vuelta ciclista a España 2022 Stage 6 results

La Vuelta ciclista a España 2022 Stage 6 from Bilbao to Ascensión al Pico Jano. San Miguel de Aguayo was won by Jay Vine before Remco Evenepoel and Enric Mas. Remco Evenepoel was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

Admitted, Vine was the best that day, but from the GC riders, only Mas barely held on for dear life while Remco only rode his (murderous) pace.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wnaUEAY5s0


Next, we have stage 9 where he indeed smashed the competition on las Praeres:

La Vuelta ciclista a España 2022 Stage 9 results

La Vuelta ciclista a España 2022 Stage 9 from Villaviciosa to Les Praeres. Nava was won by Louis Meintjes before Samuele Battistella and Edoardo Zambanini. Remco Evenepoel was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

After Remco almost died in that crash, he heroically survived the cowardly attacks on Sierra de la Pandera. Remco was weak and his enemies tried to turn the knife in the wound:

La Vuelta ciclista a España 2022 Stage 14 results

La Vuelta ciclista a España 2022 Stage 14 from Montoro to Sierra de La Pandera was won by Richard Carapaz before Miguel Ãngel López and Primož RogliÄ. Remco Evenepoel was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

Luckily, the balance in the universe slowly restored on Sierra Nevada were the Remcomeback was set in:

La Vuelta ciclista a España 2022 Stage 15 results

La Vuelta ciclista a España 2022 Stage 15 from Martos to Sierra Nevada was won by Thymen Arensman before Enric Mas and Miguel Ángel López. Remco Evenepoel was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

The cycling Gods decided that enough was enough, and they punished Roglic for his hubris not realizing Remco had a puncture, in Tomares, stage 16:
https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/vuelta-a-espana/2022/stage-16

With Roglic out, the forum exploded and the wounds healed but would not be forgotten. The Eternal Rivalry between the young and coming little pizzaman and the Slovenian "je ne sais quoi" was started, for good. Mas was the only remaining competitor but king Remco ruled the Vuelta from that moment on.

 

[Extinction]

If Remco's form was coming, in crescendo, considering he broke his scapula only seven weeks before and only had 4 weeks of training, then maybe he's actually on target for a super peak at the Tour. But he needs to lose those extra 2-3 kg by the start.

 

[red_flanders]

If Remco's form was coming, in crescendo, considering he broke his scapula only seven weeks before and only had 4 weeks of training, then maybe he's actually on target for a super peak at the Tour. But he needs to lose those extra 2-3 kg by the start.

Yeah, he's not going to win the Tour this year, but I do think some folks are getting a little excited about Dauphine results, and results after the crash as you point out. The Dauphine is an interesting indicator of things. It's quite often been a race in which Tour winners or podium placers have done poorly.

He's gonna be good for the Tour. Podium seems about the peak. I predict top 5. Which would be a heck of a result after crashing like he did. Not what we have all been hoping from him, but...the crashes are becoming a real limiter in his career. Tough to just appear after a crash and dramatically improve your best level, which is what he'd have to do to podium or win.

He shows up in Vuelta 22 form? He'll podium IMO. Just not sure he can get there. I'll live.

 

[Lorzenz08]

Yeah, he's not going to win the Tour this year, but I do think some folks are getting a little excited about Dauphine results, and results after the crash as you point out. The Dauphine is an interesting indicator of things. It's quite often been a race in which Tour winners or podium placers have done poorly.

He's gonna be good for the Tour. Podium seems about the peak. I predict top 5. Which would be a heck of a result after crashing like he did. Not what we have all been hoping from him, but...the crashes are becoming a real limiter in his career. Tough to just appear after a crash and dramatically improve your best level, which is what he'd have to do to podium or win.

He shows up in Vuelta 22 form? He'll podium IMO. Just not sure he can get there. I'll live.

I also predict top 5.
Most likely Pogi, Vingo and Roglic for the podium, next 2 places is more uncertain and I think he has the means to be better than all the rest, so that's where I put him for now.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Aaah, it's good to bring back memories when Remco was still capable of winning GT's... The good ol' days!

To make sure the memories are memorable, it's important to emphasize Remco's greatness back in those days:

As I remember, Remco smashed the competition almost on every climb, and it started way earlier, on stage 6, with Pico Jano:

La Vuelta ciclista a España 2022 Stage 6 results

La Vuelta ciclista a España 2022 Stage 6 from Bilbao to Ascensión al Pico Jano. San Miguel de Aguayo was won by Jay Vine before Remco Evenepoel and Enric Mas. Remco Evenepoel was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

Admitted, Vine was the best that day, but from the GC riders, only Mas barely held on for dear life while Remco only rode his (murderous) pace.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wnaUEAY5s0


Next, we have stage 9 where he indeed smashed the competition on las Praeres:

La Vuelta ciclista a España 2022 Stage 9 results

La Vuelta ciclista a España 2022 Stage 9 from Villaviciosa to Les Praeres. Nava was won by Louis Meintjes before Samuele Battistella and Edoardo Zambanini. Remco Evenepoel was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

After Remco almost died in that crash, he heroically survived the cowardly attacks on Sierra de la Pandera. Remco was weak and his enemies tried to turn the knife in the wound:

La Vuelta ciclista a España 2022 Stage 14 results

La Vuelta ciclista a España 2022 Stage 14 from Montoro to Sierra de La Pandera was won by Richard Carapaz before Miguel Ãngel López and Primož RogliÄ. Remco Evenepoel was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

Luckily, the balance in the universe slowly restored on Sierra Nevada were the Remcomeback was set in:

La Vuelta ciclista a España 2022 Stage 15 results

La Vuelta ciclista a España 2022 Stage 15 from Martos to Sierra Nevada was won by Thymen Arensman before Enric Mas and Miguel Ángel López. Remco Evenepoel was leading the general classification.

www.procyclingstats.com

The cycling Gods decided that enough was enough, and they punished Roglic for his hubris not realizing Remco had a puncture, in Tomares, stage 16:
https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/vuelta-a-espana/2022/stage-16

With Roglic out, the forum exploded and the wounds healed but would not be forgotten. The Eternal Rivalry between the young and coming little pizzaman and the Slovenian "je ne sais quoi" was started, for good. Mas was the only remaining competitor but king Remco ruled the Vuelta from that moment on.

I don’t agree with all of this, but I love the post.

 

[Extinction]

Yeah, he's not going to win the Tour this year, but I do think some folks are getting a little excited about Dauphine results, and results after the crash as you point out. The Dauphine is an interesting indicator of things. It's quite often been a race in which Tour winners or podium placers have done poorly.

He's gonna be good for the Tour. Podium seems about the peak. I predict top 5. Which would be a heck of a result after crashing like he did. Not what we have all been hoping from him, but...the crashes are becoming a real limiter in his career. Tough to just appear after a crash and dramatically improve your best level, which is what he'd have to do to podium or win.

He shows up in Vuelta 22 form? He'll podium IMO. Just not sure he can get there. I'll live.

A few considerations. Roglic dropped on the last stage, so he's not in stable form. Not a good sign as he didn't break bones at Itzulia. Remco came in only 10 secs behind. He was just training and testing himself. We don't even know if Vingegaard will ride the Tour and, if so, how can he be in top shape? He was worse off than Remco at Itzulia and could not ride the Dauphine. Pogacar has the Giro in his legs, although probably this won't prevent him from doing the first double since Pantani. But Tour week three could see him falter (though I doubt it). Point is that if Remco has come through the Dauphine in crescendo AND he loses the last kg he can do a top result in the Tour. Both need to be the case, however, or else he won't be in the GC hunt. Yet I actually agree with Horner for once on the latest Butterfly Effect.

View: https://youtu.be/YknalV2yG9w?si=DrxcbXP5zi-OF35i

 

[Netserk]

Will he ever get as fit as Ullrich was?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Will he ever get as fit as Ullrich was?

We have seen him like that (maybe not equally fit, but equally lean). But the team is convinced that having him that lean is bad for him. Because obviously what happened at the '21 Giro had nothing to do with his crash in Lombardia, the relapse, the overtraining, 9 months without racing etc.

 

[red_flanders]

A few considerations. Roglic dropped on the last stage, so he's not in stable form. Not a good sign as he didn't break bones at Itzulia. Remco came in only 10 secs behind. He was just training and testing himself. We don't even know if Vingegaard will ride the Tour and, if so, how can he be in top shape? He was worse off than Remco at Itzulia and could not ride the Dauphine. Pogacar has the Giro in his legs, although probably this won't prevent him from doing the first double since Pantani. But Tour week three could see him falter (though I doubt it). Point is that if Remco has come through the Dauphine in crescendo AND he loses the last kg he can do a top result in the Tour. Both need to be the case, however, or else he won't be in the GC hunt. Yet I actually agree with Horner for once on the latest Butterfly Effect.

View: https://youtu.be/YknalV2yG9w?si=DrxcbXP5zi-OF35i

Good on ya for listening, but I don't know how anyone can take more than 3 minutes of Horner. A bad combo of saying nothing of particular interest and constantly repeating himself. At least as far into any video I've been able to make it.

He REALLY needs a partner to but a break into the incessant stream of mouth-flapping.

 

[Sciatic]

Will he ever get as fit as Ullrich was?

Monster!

 

[Extinction]

Good on ya for listening, but I don't know how anyone can take more than 3 minutes of Horner. A bad combo of saying nothing of particular interest and constantly repeating himself. At least as far into any video I've been able to make it.

He REALLY needs a partner to but a break into the incessant stream of mouth-flapping.

I realize Horner's oratory skills are lacking, but the content of his argument this time I have to generally agree with.

 

[Oldermanish]

We have seen him like that (maybe not equally fit, but equally lean). But the team is convinced that having him that lean is bad for him. Because obviously what happened at the '21 Giro had nothing to do with his crash in Lombardia, the relapse, the overtraining, 9 months without racing etc.

There is a possible transition to a leaner, lighter GC version of Remco. It would not be a guaranteed outcome that he'd be a solid Tour winner and would come at the expense of his huge talents in other races. MvP doesn't face the pressure to fulfill the dreams of others and WvA knows he's not a Tour contender, either. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail and he can evolve as he wants. He may be only 24 but he's been carrying the hopes of many on his back since he was a junior.

 

[red_flanders]

I realize Horner's oratory skills are lacking, but the content of his argument this time I have to generally agree with.

Yeah I just can't get far enough into any of his videos to glean the arguments.

When he's been partnered with someone else, he's good. Solo I can't take it.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Will he ever get as fit as Ullrich was?

1997? That year young Jan had one of the highest levels in Tour history. Absolute demolition in the middle TT and superb climbing speed. He was very strong in 1998 as well (except Les Deux Alps collapse).

 

[kingjr]

1997? That year young Jan had one of the highest levels in Tour history. Absolute demolition in the middle TT and superb climbing speed. He was very strong in 1998 as well (except Les Deux Alps collapse).

That's from 2001. Time trial to Chamrousse.

 

[houtdffan]

We have seen him like that (maybe not equally fit, but equally lean). But the team is convinced that having him that lean is bad for him. Because obviously what happened at the '21 Giro had nothing to do with his crash in Lombardia, the relapse, the overtraining, 9 months without racing etc.

not to mention blowing an engine on the gravel stage because he didn't know to stay at the front then repeating the same mistake on the Zoncolon stage, forcing him to do a wasteful 30 minute chase after the first descent

 

[Netserk]

That's from 2001. Time trial to Chamrousse.

I've read that it was the year where he was best prepared to face off Armstrong, the team fully believed that he could do it. And then the look.

 

[Valv.Piti]

In my opinion, he faced the strongest version of Armstrong that year. Ullrich was very good, Armstrong was just stratospheric

 

[houtdffan]

I've read that it was the year where he was best prepared to face off Armstrong, the team fully believed that he could do it. And then the look.

was the wrong tour route for Ullrich to go head to head against Armstrong. Only Pantani 1998 would have had any chance

 

[shadowrider]

If Remco's form was coming, in crescendo, considering he broke his scapula only seven weeks before and only had 4 weeks of training, then maybe he's actually on target for a super peak at the Tour. But he needs to lose those extra 2-3 kg by the start.

Why not 4-5 kg ? Or 10 kg ?

 

[shadowrider]

Good on ya for listening, but I don't know how anyone can take more than 3 minutes of Horner. A bad combo of saying nothing of particular interest and constantly repeating himself. At least as far into any video I've been able to make it.

He REALLY needs a partner to but a break into the incessant stream of mouth-flapping.

Well, I think the level of Horner in the butterfly effect is higher than the level of 95 % of the people on this forum. Even though I don't always agree with him (but's that's ok). Today he said that he believed Evenepoel would be at top form at the start of the Tour. I think he's right. Although I don't think he will be quite at 100 %, but at 99,5 %. Horner also said that the main problem of Evenepoel would be his team (not a surprise). Especially the case of Van Wilder. It has been below par all season. He was still mediocre during the first stages of the Dauphiné, resulting in underperforming in the TT. After which he had to give up due to his crash. It seems impossible that Van Wilders will be in shape at the start of the Tour. Which means Landa is the only climber in the team. The only helper in the final of mountain stages. But not able to support Evenepoel in the final climb after having brought water bottles and food to the front from the team leader's car all the time. Van Wilder's too low level was not predictable. But why did the team let the third climber, Hirt, participate at the Giro. He did well, with an eight place. But he should have been in the Tourteam instead of riding a top 10 in the Giro.

 

[Froome]

Well, I think the level of Horner in the butterfly effect is higher than the level of 95 % of the people on this forum. Even though I don't always agree with him (but's that's ok). Today he said that he believed Evenepoel would be at top form at the start of the Tour. I think he's right. Although I don't think he will be quite at 100 %, but at 99,5 %. Horner also said that the main problem of Evenepoel would be his team (not a surprise). Especially the case of Van Wilder. It has been below par all season. He was still mediocre during the first stages of the Dauphiné, resulting in underperforming in the TT. After which he had to give up due to his crash. It seems impossible that Van Wilders will be in shape at the start of the Tour. Which means Landa is the only climber in the team. The only helper in the final of mountain stages. But not able to support Evenepoel in the final climb after having brought water bottles and food to the front from the team leader's car all the time. Van Wilder's too low level was not predictable. But why did the team let the third climber, Hirt, participate at the Giro. He did well, with an eight place. But he should have been in the Tourteam instead of riding a top 10 in the Giro.

I think Evenepoel is the type of rider who doesn't need that much of a help in the climbs, due to his style of climbing.

 

[shadowrider]

I think Evenepoel is the type of riders who doesn't need that much of a help in the climbs, due to his style of climbing.

If Evenepoel is in front, you could be right. But Evenepoel will be dropped a few times. In order not to lose too much time, it is very important that Landa (or possibly Van Wilder) relieves him in the pursuit.

 

[Froome]

If Evenepoel is in front, you could be right. But Evenepoel will be dropped a few times. In order not to lose too much time, it is very important that Landa (or possibly Van Wilder) relieves him in the pursuit.

He is like Dumoulin or Almeida. He can pace himself very well. Sometimes, having a teammate with him, it can slow him down.