Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[velaso montador]

Loved to watch Remco on stage 15 aswell so happy that my prediction before the Tour about him was right so far.

He is clearly doing his best ever GT so far without a doubt and more so than anything it makes me look ahead for the future with very very bright regards for him.

His trajectory if you would compare it to a stock is looking like its ready to take off if he holds in to Nice im 99% sure he will take off next years if thats the case. The talent and power is undeniable there and this would be a huge step in the right direction which is the only important part you would look for him in at this stage. Big things to come if thats the case.

Allez allez Evenpoel.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He can't climb in the high mountains.

I think this was his regular offday actually.

 

[ManicJack]

He needs to attack with second place in his sights and achieve it, if he wants to show me he is capable of beating either of them for the top step in the coming years.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He needs to attack with second place in his sights and achieve it, if he wants to show me he is capable of beating either of them for the top step in the coming years.

Vingegaard confirmed this was his single best performance ever. Pogacar the same. It's Pog's 5th Tour. It's Vingegaard's 4th Tour. It's Evenepoel's first. His performance was better than any of Pogacar's and Vingegaard's other performances ever before.

 

[red_flanders]

He needs to attack with second place in his sights and achieve it, if he wants to show me he is capable of beating either of them for the top step in the coming years.

He needs to beat one of them this time if he's ever going to beat either of them?

 

[Oldermanish]

He needs to beat one of them this time if he's ever going to beat either of them?

He needs to try for the next step but the stages don't favor him if the status quo is maintained. Back to Jonas; he may be approaching a limit for his post-crash preparation that would allow Remco space to regain some time. There is no incentive for UAE and Pogacar to pursue Remco, particularly if it puts the fork into Visma's remaining options. He's at this Tour to find his limits and he's managed well, so far.

 

[ManicJack]

He needs to beat one of them this time if he's ever going to beat either of them?

My opinion is worthless, so just ignore it.

 

[ManicJack]

Vingegaard confirmed this was his single best performance ever. Pogacar the same. It's Pog's 5th Tour. It's Vingegaard's 4th Tour. It's Evenepoel's first. His performance was better than any of Pogacar's and Vingegaard's other performances ever before.

Only Remco can improve on his best performance ever. Got it. 🙄

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Ridiculous if you think about it. Third best performance of the 21st century. Third best performance of July 14th 2024.

I am by no means here to knock Remco, who is performing extremely well and would certainly be capable of winning many of the GTs this century, no doubt. But doesn’t it give any pause to see that these are the top 3 performances of the century, all on the same day, and the top 3 beat Pantani’s record, top 10 faster than Lance, and on and on. Like sure, one anomalous performance, two, OK, but three, four, five, ten? I think they are outrageously good but it seems like the fact that ALL of these guys rode so fast indicates that maybe there is something else going on here. Are they really all better than Lance? Remco can’t even consistently outclimb Roglic, who barely beat an old G in the last Tour, who was Froome’s domestique. It just doesn’t totally make sense, but maybe that’s just me.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Only Remco can improve on his best performance ever. Got it. 🙄

Could you please point out where i said this or implied this. If not, please don't make sht up i didn't say, thx.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

But for Pog and Vingo's times, people would be losing their shaite over Remco smashing Pantani's time in his first TdF. While I was excited to see Remco's potential here, I admit some skepticism over his ability to stay with the best in the high mountains at the Tour. He's answered that. I don't think Roglic could have stayed with Remco on Sunday.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

But for Pog and Vingo's times, people would be losing their shaite over Remco smashing Pantani's time in his first TdF. While I was excited to see Remco's potential here, I admit some skepticism over his ability to stay with the best in the high mountains at the Tour. He's answered that. I don't think Roglic could have stayed with Remco on Sunday.

It's reasonable to see someone break Pantani's time 25 years later when looking at advances in the bikes as well as nutrition.

It's not unreasonable that one of the best cycling talent of the last 25 years or more who can climb would beat Pantani's time by 1.6% over a 25 year span in constrast to Jonas who beat Pantani's time by 5.86%
and Tadej who beat it by 8.46%. Figures that should be analyzed against a variety of factors such length of course, wind currents, peloton speed prior to the final climb, along with stage number number of climbing stages and miles travelled to date.

To get a detailed analysis you would need to look at recorded versions of the TDF and assess trends of improvement to factor correlation as well as statistical deviations for all these factors.

This doesn't even get things that are harder to assess like communication on the bike and moto/car pacing and nutritional analysis.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I am by no means here to knock Remco, who is performing extremely well and would certainly be capable of winning many of the GTs this century, no doubt. But doesn’t it give any pause to see that these are the top 3 performances of the century, all on the same day, and the top 3 beat Pantani’s record, top 10 faster than Lance, and on and on. Like sure, one anomalous performance, two, OK, but three, four, five, ten? I think they are outrageously good but it seems like the fact that ALL of these guys rode so fast indicates that maybe there is something else going on here. Are they really all better than Lance? Remco can’t even consistently outclimb Roglic, who barely beat an old G in the last Tour, who was Froome’s domestique. It just doesn’t totally make sense, but maybe that’s just me.

Evenpoel has 2 climbing performances in the top 40 of all time. Roglic has none.

The fact that many climbed that fast is undoubtedly related to the pace the first part of the climb. The fact that Pogacar beat it by so much is undoubtedly related by the fact that he had a domestique de luxe in Vingegaard who further paced him into the final 5k. The stage was long, hard and also raced hard early on. I have not heard of super tailwinds, but i may be mistaken. I don't suppose half of the peloton had a blood transfusion overnight or was riding with motors.

 

[Oldermanish]

I am by no means here to knock Remco, who is performing extremely well and would certainly be capable of winning many of the GTs this century, no doubt. But doesn’t it give any pause to see that these are the top 3 performances of the century, all on the same day, and the top 3 beat Pantani’s record, top 10 faster than Lance, and on and on. Like sure, one anomalous performance, two, OK, but three, four, five, ten? I think they are outrageously good but it seems like the fact that ALL of these guys rode so fast indicates that maybe there is something else going on here. Are they really all better than Lance? Remco can’t even consistently outclimb Roglic, who barely beat an old G in the last Tour, who was Froome’s domestique. It just doesn’t totally make sense, but maybe that’s just me.

Part of it was the absolutely rabid setup by domestiques to bring back the break. A concerted effort by several teams and the guys that "beat" a record achieved largely solo by Pantani got pretty much launched into the last 5km. That they saw their best "numbers" was a product of continuing that setup without holding strategic reserves. Tadej just attacked and paid attention to his redline, Jonas found and went beyond his and lost unnecessary time in the last km because of it. Again, they're looking at pulse rate/watt output...the speed top to bottom was established for them and they countered. Remco stayed right where his computer told him to because he was maxxed out. Maxxed out means your greatest output.

The takeaway is that the top guys (and others) had the stage set for them to apply their best efforts with strategy being irrelevant as the #2, #3 riders were all riding individually to not lose time. It seems only Jonas went beyond what was perfect but this sort of climbing situation is rare.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Why is that reasonable? Because they didn't come even close to such records just 5 years ago. Nevermind breaking it by 3+ minutes. If you had told people in 2019 that in 5 years, riders would climb 5-10% faster than Pantani, you would have been ridiculed. But now it is suddenly "reasonable".

2010-2019: 10% slower than Pantani.

2024: 10% faster than Pantani.

"Better nutrition."

Since you are a new account, with a name like the slogan used by a twitter nutjob who sees himself as a doping investigator, and before you take your line of reasoning any further, you should know that the insinuation you are making aren't tolerated by the admins and mods in this part of the forum. You'll probably be better off reading/posting the clinic section of the forum, which is entirely doping related.

If you already knew that, sorry to impose. But better safe than sorry.

 

[BigCoward]

Ridiculous if you think about it. Third best performance of the 21st century. Third best performance of July 14th 2024.

Reminds me of Rai Benjamin after the Olympics 400m hurdles. 'If you would have told me I would run 46.1 and lose, I would probably beat you up'.

 

[bNator]

Vingegaard confirmed this was his single best performance ever. Pogacar the same. It's Pog's 5th Tour. It's Vingegaard's 4th Tour. It's Evenepoel's first. His performance was better than any of Pogacar's and Vingegaard's other performances ever before.

Where did you get that idea?

 

[Berniece]

Where did you get that idea?

Because it was the third best performance of this century

 

[Salvarani]

Reminds me of Rai Benjamin after the Olympics 400m hurdles. 'If you would have told me I would run 46.1 and lose, I would probably beat you up'.

Probably how Remco feels or thinks atm as well.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Where did you get that idea?

From assuming Pogacar at age 1 and Vingegaard at age 3 didn't perform better.

Evenepoel’s performance still is the third best in the 21st century.

Greatest Climbing Performances Of All-Time on Plateau de Beille | Tour de France 2024 Stage 15 - Lanterne Rouge

Tadej Pogačar and Jonas Vingegaard both did the best and second-best climbing performance of all time on the Plateau de Beille climb, making this the greatest climbing stage of all time.

lanternerouge.com

Vingegaard already confirmed those numbers to be shockingly accurate, so i assume those guys have some basic idea of what they are doing.

 

[stekelegel]

With so many "best" performances, there probably is a case that the circumstances (wind, temprature) were ideal on sunday. Maybe even the road had been renovated? And riders like Remco but also Pogacar riding their best GT ever. For me, the best ever Vingegard ride was last years ITT, but he is getting carried along to.
You could also make a case that Remco is a lot more an established rider vs tour debuts of Pogacar and Vingegard. He has won Spain. He was leading Italy before Covid. Everybody who has been following cycling the last years knows that Remco is capable of incredible rides on his day but question marks are / were can he do it fo 3 weeks on the biggest stage of all?
So I think Remco is in a good place right now, and can build for the future.

And sometimes it just happens that great athletes spur the other on to new heights. I was lucky to watch Carl Lewis and Mike Powell jump against each other in Tokio. It was not an accident that the two best long jump performances came in the same game.

 

[red_flanders]

My opinion is worthless, so just ignore it.

Just trying to make sense of it. Opine away.

 

[red_flanders]

He needs to try for the next step but the stages don't favor him if the status quo is maintained. Back to Jonas; he may be approaching a limit for his post-crash preparation that would allow Remco space to regain some time. There is no incentive for UAE and Pogacar to pursue Remco, particularly if it puts the fork into Visma's remaining options. He's at this Tour to find his limits and he's managed well, so far.

I think he should get through the onslaught of those two mutants with as little energy spent as possible and try and win the second TT.

 

[red_flanders]

I am by no means here to knock Remco, who is performing extremely well and would certainly be capable of winning many of the GTs this century, no doubt. But doesn’t it give any pause to see that these are the top 3 performances of the century, all on the same day, and the top 3 beat Pantani’s record, top 10 faster than Lance, and on and on. Like sure, one anomalous performance, two, OK, but three, four, five, ten? I think they are outrageously good but it seems like the fact that ALL of these guys rode so fast indicates that maybe there is something else going on here. Are they really all better than Lance? Remco can’t even consistently outclimb Roglic, who barely beat an old G in the last Tour, who was Froome’s domestique. It just doesn’t totally make sense, but maybe that’s just me.

It seems fairly obvious this is the best form we’ve seen from Remco and he timed it really well, getting stronger into the latter bit of the race. Roglic had a good day on stage11 and still crashed. Fatigue? Seems like a potential contributor. Maybe not. He hung on for stage 9, Would have easily been taken out of the race on stage 4 had UAE or Visma been remotely worried about him. Looked rough on stage 2. Remco has been on the front and at the sharp end the entire race, whenever it mattered.

That there’s something going on seems clear, but tangential.

 

[AmRacer]

With so many "best" performances, there probably is a case that the circumstances (wind, temprature) were ideal on sunday. Maybe even the road had been renovated? And riders like Remco but also Pogacar riding their best GT ever. For me, the best ever Vingegard ride was last years ITT, but he is getting carried along to.
You could also make a case that Remco is a lot more an established rider vs tour debuts of Pogacar and Vingegard. He has won Spain. He was leading Italy before Covid. Everybody who has been following cycling the last years knows that Remco is capable of incredible rides on his day but question marks are / were can he do it fo 3 weeks on the biggest stage of all?
So I think Remco is in a good place right now, and can build for the future.

And sometimes it just happens that great athletes spur the other on to new heights. I was lucky to watch Carl Lewis and Mike Powell jump against each other in Tokio. It was not an accident that the two best long jump performances came in the same game.

Pogi is lot more an established rider vs Giro debuts of Remco.