Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Krzysztof_O]

Ridiculous if you think about it. Third best performance of the 21st century. Third best performance of July 14th 2024.

TBH I'm not convinced by those estimations given. I'm still waiting for ammattipyroaily calculations. Judging by VAM and extrapolation from a known strava power file to me it seems 6.3-6.35 w/kg is a more likely range by Remco (still great performance OFC) vs 6.75 w/kg by Tadej (instead of 6.9-6.95 w/kg).

 

[Peyroteo94]

lol
he would already have won the Giro last year without two top climbing domestiques and while too heavy.
Stop dreaming, that's what everybody said last year about Pogacar beating Vingegaard at the Tour ever again. It's his first Tour, he is younger he has more margin to improve, more margin to lose weight. First Bernal was going to win the next 10 years, then Pogacar, then Vingegaard, now it's Pog again. You'd think people would have learned that one year is not the same as the next and that goes for every rider.
Vingegaard is pushing better numbers than the previous years, not just on PdB. He's only 2 minutes up on Evenepoel after 2 weeks.

Oh lord, I quit...

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

TBH I'm not convinced by those estimations given. I'm still waiting for ammattipyroaily calculations. Judging by VAM and extrapolation from a known strava power file to me it seems 6.3-6.35 w/kg is a more likely range by Remco (still great performance OFC) vs 6.75 w/kg by Tadej.

Vingegaard basically confirmed the numbers.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Vingegaard basically confirmed the numbers.

Did he say exact numbers? If he did for example 6.6 w/kg for 41 mins it's absolutely lifetime performance by him.

 

[bNator]

Did he say exact numbers? If he did for example 6.6 w/kg for 41 mins it's absolutely lifetime performance by him.

Exactly. Maybe he had 6.5 and still called it “shockingly accurate” and now we are all blown away for nothing…

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Did he say exact numbers? If he did for example 6.6 w/kg for 41 mins it's absolutely lifetime performance by him.

Er det her det højeste niveau, vi har set ved et Tour de France?
- Ja, det vil jeg faktisk næsten gå så langt at sige. De andre på holdet fortalte, at der er nogle, der har estimeret, hvor mange watt per kilo, vi har trådt, og det er – for at sige det ligeud – meget præcist, siger Jonas Vingegaard.
- Selvfølgelig ved jeg ikke, hvad de har kørt i gamle dage, men det er i hvert fald det bedste, jeg nogensinde har kørt. Når det er sådan, kan jeg ikke tillade mig at være skuffet over at blive slået af en, der var bedre, siger den dobbelte Tour-vinder.

 

[red_flanders]

Sure, although I'd point out that Remco is 5 minutes down on Pogacar despite winning the ITT, so "sharp end" is a bit of a stretch." Regardless, I'm not sure how Roglic's rocky start undercuts my skepticism that suddenly the top 10 or so would all beat Lance in 2000 and Contador in 2007. It almost makes me think this picture is a bit too simplistic...

My comments were addressing your comparison of Remco's climbing to Roglič historically. It's been quite different this Tour, and while yes, he has gotten dropped on all the big climbs by two riders putting in all-time performances, he's been in the right spot the whole race, at the front the whole race, and has quite honestly, climbed brilliantly by any other measure than 2 riders...in this Tour.

 

[Berniece]

Oh lord, I quit...

Better, it's easier to claim someone is the GOAT without having the palmares I guess.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Better, it's easier to claim someone is the GOAT without having the palmares I guess.

Thank god, I am not one of them. I also think he needs the palmares but he has the potential to be the GOAT one day.

 

[Berniece]

Thank god, I am not one of them. I also think he needs the palmares but he has the potential to be the GOAT one day.

It was a cheap shot from me, but seriously why wouldn’t he be able to reach this level? He’s younger, had a crash that impacted at least 6 months of his career, and didn’t have the perfect preparation this year. He says he might be able to lose some more weight, and he’s already performing better than Pogacar and Vingegaard last year, so why couldn’t he be at their current level next year? Those two could also still improve of course.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It was a cheap shot from me, but seriously why wouldn’t he be able to reach this level? He’s younger, had a crash that impacted at least 6 months of his career, and didn’t have the perfect preparation this year. He says he might be able to lose some more weight, and he’s already performing better than Pogacar and Vingegaard last year, so why couldn’t he be at their current level next year? Those two could also still improve of course.

6 months... He crashed in August 2020, and the effects of that crash cascaded into 2022. And i'd dare to say certain things we are seeing now are still a result of that crash. The ridiculous weight counter-reaction, his descending skills...

 

[Peyroteo94]

It was a cheap shot from me, but seriously why wouldn’t he be able to reach this level? He’s younger, had a crash that impacted at least 6 months of his career, and didn’t have the perfect preparation this year. He says he might be able to lose some more weight, and he’s already performing better than Pogacar and Vingegaard last year, so why couldn’t he be at their current level next year? Those two could also still improve of course.

Because the gap is immense and he is not significantly younger than Vingegaard and Pogacar. I still think he is a beast and he would be a legend of this sport if he raced in the 90's or 10's. Unfortunately he is facing probably the 2 best climbers of all times and he is far from them, even if he improves a lot, Vingegaard and Pogacar are improving too. I just don't see it.
I think if Jonas goes crazy in Isola, he will lose again 2 or 3 minutes. It is a lot, he is not losing a minute, he is 0,2 w/kg below those two. This is a lot!

 

[Berniece]

Because the gap is immense and he is not significantly younger than Vingegaard and Pogacar. I still think he is a beast and he would be a legend of this sport if he raced in the 90's or 10's. Unfortunately he is facing probably the 2 best climbers of all times and he is far from them, even if he improves a lot, Vingegaard and Pogacar are improving too. I just don't see it.
I think if Jonas goes crazy in Isola, he will lose again 2 or 3 minutes. It is a lot, he is not losing a minute, he is 0,2 w/kg below those two. This is a lot!

So Vingegaard and Pogacar can improve in 1 year this much, but Evenepoel can’t?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It is a lot, he is not losing a minute, he is 0,2 w/kg below those two. This is a lot!

This is ~1kg

 

[Peyroteo94]

So Vingegaard and Pogacar can improve in 1 year this much, but Evenepoel can’t?

He can but he needs to improve a lot to catch those two (and they can't improve at all).

 

[Berniece]

He can but he needs to improve a lot to catch those two (and they can't improve at all).

We’ll see, a lot of people never thought Evenepoel could even reach this level. I’m sure he’ll get better, if he will ever fight them for victory when they are all at their best I don’t know.

 

[Oldermanish]

Because it was the third best performance of this century

How is one pack-pace climb comparable to Pantani's ride? It is the same hill, yes but few of the conditions are the same. The say that Pantani's enhanced form established the "best" is also not directly comparable.

 

[Oldermanish]

Because it was the third best performance of this century

I'd wager that MvP's World road win was the first...so maybe the 4th. Oh wait; Remco got dropped that day so is he out of a direct, but still uncomparable performance?

 

[Berniece]

I'd wager that MvP's World road win was the first...so maybe the 4th. Oh wait; Remco got dropped that day so is he out of a direct, but still uncomparable performance?

We are discussing climbing, and actual calculated w/kg and climb times. Not just random person saying this was the 3rd best performance...

But you saw Remco, and 3rd best performance and got red in front of your eyes

 

[Valv.Piti]

Tomorrow is a stage to try to claw some time back on Jonas for Remco.

Grande Remco!

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Tomorrow is a stage to try to claw some time back on Jonas for Remco.

Grande Remco!

He needs to go on the attack for that to happen. Is he going to put his 3rd place at risk with the stages we have in the next few days? I think he's happy with his 3rd at his first Tour.

 

[Didinho]

He’s not going to attack Vingo unless he’s seeing him struggle or have his bad day. And he would still just ride his own pace and see how much he can gain.

 

[Oldermanish]

We are discussing climbing, and actual calculated w/kg and climb times. Not just random person saying this was the 3rd best performance...

But you saw Remco, and 3rd best performance and got red in front of your eyes

So, how exactly was Pantani's w/kg calculated?

PS: I admire Remco and the red in the eyes only shows up when someone makes a convenient, prejudicial judgement.

 

[AmRacer]

He’s not going to attack Vingo unless he’s seeing him struggle or have his bad day. And he would still just ride his own pace and see how much he can gain.

Jonas has had his bad day already.

 

[Oldermanish]

What are you blabbering about? We are talking about climbs here.

Evenepoel did the best climbing performance of the 21st century, if not for those two guys who crushed him by 2 and 3 minutes.

The comparison was "best performance of this century". Never mind we're comparing them to a climb from another millennia.
I like the "blabbering" part. Never been accused of that but perhaps I lack your experience. And opinions.