Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Berniece]

A bit disappointing, but Evenepoel isn’t going to attack and only look to riders behind him in the GC. He just wants the podium and has no intentions to go for more. I get why, since it’s his first Tour, but still…

 

[NOT_NORMAL]

Winning matters.

It doesn't for this purpose. Winner of TdF 2019 stage 14 Thibaut Pinot was not stronger than the second of TdF 2024 Stage 15 Jonas Vingegaard. In fact, the latter was way stronger than the former.

I'm prepared to admit that Pogacar might have had the best climbing performance (or as good as any) yesterday, but telling me getting third, down by 2.5 minutes, all in the last few kilometers is better than any of the stunning performances we've had all century, or even in the last 3 years? Come on. Maybe it has a higher watts/kg estimate using their assumptions and calculation, but it's not better, and Remco wouldn't have dominated the last 4 Tours.

Evenepoel broke Pantani's PdB record by ~40 seconds. He was almost 3 minutes faster than the elite group of 2015, including Froome.

Just look at the result then:

1.​

POGACAR Tadej

UAD

5h13'55"​

80​

2.​

VINGEGAARD HANSEN Jonas

TVL

01'08"​

50​

3.​

EVENEPOEL Remco

SOQ

02'51"​

35​

4.​

LANDA MEANA Mikel

SOQ

03'54"​

25​

5.​

ALMEIDA Joao Pedro Gonçalves

UAD

04'43"​

15​

6.​

YATES Adam

UAD

04'56"​

10​

7.​

BUITRAGO SANCHEZ Santiago

TBV

05'08"​

5​

8.​

RODRIGUEZ CANO Carlos

IGD

05'08"​

3​

9.​

CARAPAZ MONTENEGRO Richard Antonio

EFE

05'41"​

2​

10.​

GALL Felix

DAT

05'57"​

1​

Forget about W/Kg, Pogacar was nearly 5 minutes faster than the rider in fifth place. On a 40-45 minute climb. That is more than a 10% difference. Someone like Rodriguez isn't a random pleb rider, he's the leader of INEOS, and excels at these type of efforts.

If you remove Pogacar and Vingegaard from the results, Evenepoel won by a minute, and was two minutes faster than the rider in third place.

 

[Wvv]

A bit disappointing, but Evenepoel isn’t going to attack and only look to riders behind him in the GC. He just wants the podium and has no intentions to go for more. I get why, since it’s his first Tour, but still…

Tbh, I rather have him end the Tour smart and keep enough in the tank for an olympic gold, than otherwise.

 

[houtdffan]

oh, QS is confident he will beat Vingo. See the article in the race thread here and in the clinic

 

[Karl Merckx]

oh, QS is confident he will beat Vingo. See the article in the race thread here and in the clinic

link ?

 

[ManicJack]

A bit disappointing, but Evenepoel isn’t going to attack and only look to riders behind him in the GC. He just wants the podium and has no intentions to go for more. I get why, since it’s his first Tour, but still…

Link?

 

[scribers]

Link?

 

[Oldermanish]

It doesn't for this purpose. Winner of TdF 2019 stage 14 Thibaut Pinot was not stronger than the second of TdF 2024 Stage 15 Jonas Vingegaard. In fact, the latter was way stronger than the former.


Evenepoel broke Pantani's PdB record by ~40 seconds. He was almost 3 minutes faster than the elite group of 2015, including Froome.

Just look at the result then:

1.​

POGACAR Tadej

UAD

5h13'55"​

80​

2.​

VINGEGAARD HANSEN Jonas

TVL

01'08"​

50​

3.​

EVENEPOEL Remco

SOQ

02'51"​

35​

4.​

LANDA MEANA Mikel

SOQ

03'54"​

25​

5.​

ALMEIDA Joao Pedro Gonçalves

UAD

04'43"​

15​

6.​

YATES Adam

UAD

04'56"​

10​

7.​

BUITRAGO SANCHEZ Santiago

TBV

05'08"​

5​

8.​

RODRIGUEZ CANO Carlos

IGD

05'08"​

3​

9.​

CARAPAZ MONTENEGRO Richard Antonio

EFE

05'41"​

2​

10.​

GALL Felix

DAT

05'57"​

1​

Forget about W/Kg, Pogacar was nearly 5 minutes faster than the rider in fifth place. On a 40-45 minute climb. That is more than a 10% difference. Someone like Rodriguez isn't a random pleb rider, he's the leader of INEOS, and excels at these type of efforts.

If you remove Pogacar and Vingegaard from the results, Evenepoel won by a minute, and was two minutes faster than the rider in third place.

The guy in 5th Place? You mean the guy that ran domestique work for him 4 two weeks...his teammate? He was responding to cover the fact that no one else had a teammate up the road; as he should. Yates could probably explain the tactical elements of racing but let's not confuse the wattage output as a basis of greatness.

 

[houtdffan]

link ?

See my post. It directs you to the race thread here and in the clinic

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Not my problem when you cannot read graphs from links that you post.

You literally said 3rd best climb of the 21st centruy and that is not true.

Do not not see the curve on the bottom graph and notice the blue dot that's way above the Remco dot?

That's literally far above Remco's performance for a longer time.

The article mentions it as 3rd best climbing performance. Not sure whether that is because they overlooked Basso's Bondone climb and screwed up, or whether they calculated different parameters (altitude etc) into the effort or the length and difficulty of the stage, which in all cases (altitude, length, difficulty) the Giro stage of 2006 was a lot easier. It doesn't really matter much either, whether it is 3rd or 4th. Point is that it is up there, and also beyond Pog's and Vinge's previous efforst.

 

[NOT_NORMAL]

The guy in 5th Place? You mean the guy that ran domestique work for him 4 two weeks...his teammate?

So what? He finished 5th didn't he?

Is the 5th best rider of the day losing 5 minutes to the winner, in a single climb, in the biggst race of the year, supposed to be normal now? Can you give some other examples where that happened?

They were clients of Dr Ferrari.

Pogacar rides for Gianetti.

What's your point?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Link?

Link?

See my post. It directs you to the race thread here and in the clinic

I'm not seeing any directions or links towards a post with a link or a link. I've even gone into the clinic thread which i usually don't do and did not find a link like you said.

 

[Andre]

Want some candy?
These two have really embraced each other.When its properly nr 1 and 2 rider in the world its just really awesome!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1813266866514649311

View: https://x.com/LeTour/status/1813266866514649311

Remco don't take candy from him...he's your enemy

 

[scribers]

Frienemy

 

[houtdffan]

Link?


I'm not seeing any directions or links towards a post with a link or a link. I've even gone into the clinic thread which i usually don't do and did not find a link like you said.

You obviously didn't look because it would hit you in the face in the first post of the thread

Mikel Landa has "little doubt" that Remco Evenepoel can still contest second place at Tour de France against Jonas Vingegaard

Mikel Landa is the best Spaniard in the Tour de Fran

cyclinguptodate.com

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You obviously didn't look because it would hit you in the face in the first post of the thread

Mikel Landa has "little doubt" that Remco Evenepoel can still contest second place at Tour de France against Jonas Vingegaard

Mikel Landa is the best Spaniard in the Tour de Fran

cyclinguptodate.com

Thanks for the link. However, i did look, in the clinic in Evenepoel's topic and in the stage 15 topic. When i go back to the first post in that topic, i still see no link to the article you posted above.
https://forum.cyclingnews.com/threads/tour-de-france-stage-15-post-race-thread.39811/

As for your orignal statement:

oh, QS is confident he will beat Vingo. See the article in the race thread here and in the clinic

I do not find anything remotely similar in the article you posted. First of all, it's not SQS, but simply Landa's opinion, and furthermore, i don't see any such declarations by him. Basically "the team is sure he will beat Vingegaard" becomes "Landa thinks he still has a chance to beat Vingegaard".

 

[houtdffan]

Thanks for the link. However, i did look, in the clinic in Evenepoel's topic and in the stage 15 topic. When i go back to the first post in that topic, i still see no link to the article you posted above.
https://forum.cyclingnews.com/threads/tour-de-france-stage-15-post-race-thread.39811/

As for your orignal statement:

I do not find anything remotely similar in the article you posted. First of all, it's not SQS, but simply Landa's opinion, and furthermore, i don't see any such declarations by him. Basically "the team is sure he will beat Vingegaard" becomes "Landa thinks he still has a chance to beat Vingegaard".

it's in the stage thread that was created for stage 17 in the clinic

 

[Berniece]

Link?

Job done voor Evenepoel en Soudal Quick-Step: 'Komende dagen gaan voor ons wat kalmer zijn'

Job done: dat was de enige conclusie die witte trui

www.indeleiderstrui.nl

 

[Pantani_lives]

At this point defending the third place is the only sensible thing to do. UAE and Visma would never give him the freedom to take time back in the valleys, so by attacking wildly he would only blow himself up.

He's very likely to become the first Belgian on the podium in forty-three years. (Jurgen VDB was officially third, but not on the actual podium.) This would be a big step in his career, erasing all the doubts about his capacities in the high mountains and over three weeks. Hopefully he'll be spared of crashes and diseases, and climb that podium step on Sunday!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Job done voor Evenepoel en Soudal Quick-Step: 'Komende dagen gaan voor ons wat kalmer zijn'

Job done: dat was de enige conclusie die witte trui

www.indeleiderstrui.nl

He also says there still may be some opportunities considering his margin to 4th/5th place is substantial. I think if he feels something is possible or Vingegaard shows some weakness, he might try something. But that he's not going to just do whatever it takes to try and take time on Vingegaard as if they were battling for yellow.

 

[Oldermanish]

So what? He finished 5th didn't he?

Is the 5th best rider of the day losing 5 minutes to the winner, in a single climb, in the biggst race of the year, supposed to be normal now? Can you give some other examples where that happened?


Pogacar rides for Gianetti.

What's your point?

Your point is lost in the rush to find a trending/illegal boost in performance and the implication you make is a disingenuous nod to doping with absence of specific evidence . No one here is totally naive so that dialogue is real and has a venue. Go there and beat your drum or whatever gets you off.

As for the likelihood that every team involved in this particular stage would also be privy to that amazing beneficial nectar and respond identically and spectacularly; that's a unicorn fantasy proposition. All the wattage experts audit the part of the climb where everyone goes nuclear and are totally, strategically vested in "going til they blow" not to lose time. Remco settled earlier but the same thing occurred with him because all of these guys were racing ba*ls out in the f*ckn Tour de France! Dope or not; they had a phenomenal pacing setup that allowed them to throw down those "numbers" you use to vest your veiled argument.

Unless you can provide the profile for the entire stage with each rider's adjusted +/- effort compared to Pantani (from his millenium) or other Icon that's the reference point you don't have a serious comparable model. Oh, add the effort output for 4 or 5 stages prior as well.

As for Pogacar and Gianetti....again; that's not the same as Ferrari at a cost of nearly 7 figures a year for Armstrong and his sponsors when no other riders received that service. Get off that track if you're arguing a vague comparable to Pantani's climb or any other for that matter because your in deeper waters than your boots.
The fact that the better trained talent all laid down their best effort on the same day is not much of a conspiratorial coincidence. Every fan knew the sh*t would hit the fan when the stage was announced so it'd be surprising which riders weren't prepared. They all train better and smarter than the Armstrong era.

 

[Berniece]

He also says there still may be some opportunities considering his margin to 4th/5th place is substantial. I think if he feels something is possible or Vingegaard shows some weakness, he might try something. But that he's not going to just do whatever it takes to try and take time on Vingegaard as if they were battling for yellow.

Yeah but I don't see him attacking today for example. He won't force it himself knowing what is coming the following days.

 

[stekelegel]

Most of the people here comparing the new with the old record are "forgetting" the conditions. The 98 pantani ride was the one where Ulrich had a flat tire just before the start of the climb. The whole group waited and there was little pacing on the first third / half. Pantani also rode the rest alone. He probably coukld have gone at least a minute, but probably 1.5 tot 2 minutes faster if the race scenario was like 2024.
You would expect the peleton to creep to the 98 ride over the years but PdB has not been in the Tour that much; Froome was in the rain in 2015. In 2011 Vanendert won, not really an all time great.
Yes Pog, Vinge and Remco are flying, but to me this is the best rider since Merckx who is challenging intense competitors like Vinge and Remco to catch up. Expect more records to follow.

 

[Berniece]

He also says there still may be some opportunities considering his margin to 4th/5th place is substantial. I think if he feels something is possible or Vingegaard shows some weakness, he might try something. But that he's not going to just do whatever it takes to try and take time on Vingegaard as if they were battling for yellow.

Or he does attack, and I'm wrong

 

[Andre]

Remco gained 13 seconds on Vingo I believe