A talent that only comes around once in a generation. Ironically there are two currently. I do not count Jonas because he doesn't win important one day races.
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Not my problem when you cannot read graphs from links that you post.It's based on the calculations of lanternerouge.com and nothing more than that.
Greatest Climbing Performances Of All-Time on Plateau de Beille | Tour de France 2024 Stage 15 - Lanterne Rouge
Tadej Pogačar and Jonas Vingegaard both did the best and second-best climbing performance of all time on the Plateau de Beille climb, making this the greatest climbing stage of all time.lanternerouge.com
Please keep up before you throw a hissy fit.
You literally said 3rd best climb of the 21st centruy and that is not true.
Do not not see the curve on the bottom graph and notice the blue dot that's way above the Remco dot?
That's literally far above Remco's performance for a longer time.
Maybe all that is true, but almedia is not one of the greaters climber of this era, whatever the numbers said.It's based on the calculations of lanternerouge.com and nothing more than that.
Greatest Climbing Performances Of All-Time on Plateau de Beille | Tour de France 2024 Stage 15 - Lanterne Rouge
Tadej Pogačar and Jonas Vingegaard both did the best and second-best climbing performance of all time on the Plateau de Beille climb, making this the greatest climbing stage of all time.
Please keep up before you throw a hissy fit.
Of course he is doing a very good Tour and he is climbing very well. He was quite far fron his team mate, but anyway a good performance if you look at history. It is one of the best performances of Landa for sure in numbers, but in terms of proportional level whenj he droped Contador at Finestre for me is another level. I dont compare con tador with Jonas or Pogacar, they are much better riders and climbers, but Contador should be at least as good climber as Evenepoel is today (he will improve, for sure, at least a little)
I dunno...I would have agreed without seeing that photo that was posted immediately before, but Remco seems much more vascular. Probably just a quirk of Tadej's physiology, though.
Exactly. People (fans of riders who are being exalted here) are blindly regurgitating this, forgetting a few things:
- These are imperfect estimates
- LR, as much as I like their podcast, have a history of sensationalism, particularly hyping certain riders
- Context matters
- Don't forget the eye test (as Taxus indicates below)
- Winning matters!
Exactly. You can cite all the numbers you want, but you're not going to convince me that Landa, 9 years after he dropped Contador on Finestre, is a better climber now riding as pack fodder than he was then. Or that Almeida and Buitrago are suddenly better climbers than Roglic or than peak Froome or Contador or Lance.
They are conflating "best estimated watts/kilogram during a climb that LR has selected from the database for consideration" with "best performance." Winning matters. I'm prepared to admit that Pogacar might have had the best climbing performance (or as good as any) yesterday, but telling me getting third, down by 2.5 minutes, all in the last few kilometers is better than any of the stunning performances we've had all century, or even in the last 3 years? Come on. Maybe it has a higher watts/kg estimate using their assumptions and calculation, but it's not better, and Remco wouldn't have dominated the last 4 Tours.
A bit disappointing, but Evenepoel isn’t going to attack and only look to riders behind him in the GC. He just wants the podium and has no intentions to go for more. I get why, since it’s his first Tour, but still…
Tbh, I rather have him end the Tour smart and keep enough in the tank for an olympic gold, than otherwise.
oh, QS is confident he will beat Vingo. See the article in the race thread here and in the clinic
ManicJack
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The guy in 5th Place? You mean the guy that ran domestique work for him 4 two weeks...his teammate? He was responding to cover the fact that no one else had a teammate up the road; as he should. Yates could probably explain the tactical elements of racing but let's not confuse the wattage output as a basis of greatness.It doesn't for this purpose. Winner of TdF 2019 stage 14 Thibaut Pinot was not stronger than the second of TdF 2024 Stage 15 Jonas Vingegaard. In fact, the latter was way stronger than the former.
Evenepoel broke Pantani's PdB record by ~40 seconds. He was almost 3 minutes faster than the elite group of 2015, including Froome.
Just look at the result then:
POGACAR Tadej UAD 
VINGEGAARD HANSEN Jonas TVL 
EVENEPOEL Remco SOQ 
LANDA MEANA Mikel SOQ 
ALMEIDA Joao Pedro Gonçalves UAD 
YATES Adam UAD 
BUITRAGO SANCHEZ Santiago TBV RODRIGUEZ CANO Carlos IGD 
CARAPAZ MONTENEGRO Richard Antonio EFE 
GALL Felix DAT
Forget about W/Kg, Pogacar was nearly 5 minutes faster than the rider in fifth place. On a 40-45 minute climb. That is more than a 10% difference. Someone like Rodriguez isn't a random pleb rider, he's the leader of INEOS, and excels at these type of efforts.
If you remove Pogacar and Vingegaard from the results, Evenepoel won by a minute, and was two minutes faster than the rider in third place.
The article mentions it as 3rd best climbing performance. Not sure whether that is because they overlooked Basso's Bondone climb and screwed up, or whether they calculated different parameters (altitude etc) into the effort or the length and difficulty of the stage, which in all cases (altitude, length, difficulty) the Giro stage of 2006 was a lot easier. It doesn't really matter much either, whether it is 3rd or 4th. Point is that it is up there, and also beyond Pog's and Vinge's previous efforst.
Link?
I'm not seeing any directions or links towards a post with a link or a link. I've even gone into the clinic thread which i usually don't do and did not find a link like you said.
You obviously didn't look because it would hit you in the face in the first post of the thread
Mikel Landa has "little doubt" that Remco Evenepoel can still contest second place at Tour de France against Jonas Vingegaard
Mikel Landa is the best Spaniard in the Tour de France classification. He is fifth, with Joao Almeida only a few seconds ahead of him and Carlos Rodriguez close behind. So far he has always stayed alo...
cyclinguptodate.com
Thanks for the link. However, i did look, in the clinic in Evenepoel's topic and in the stage 15 topic. When i go back to the first post in that topic, i still see no link to the article you posted above.You obviously didn't look because it would hit you in the face in the first post of the thread
Mikel Landa has "little doubt" that Remco Evenepoel can still contest second place at Tour de France against Jonas Vingegaard
Mikel Landa is the best Spaniard in the Tour de France classification. He is fifth, with Joao Almeida only a few seconds ahead of him and Carlos Rodriguez close behind. So far he has always stayed alo...
https://forum.cyclingnews.com/threads/tour-de-france-stage-15-post-race-thread.39811/
As for your orignal statement:
I do not find anything remotely similar in the article you posted. First of all, it's not SQS, but simply Landa's opinion, and furthermore, i don't see any such declarations by him. Basically "the team is sure he will beat Vingegaard" becomes "Landa thinks he still has a chance to beat Vingegaard".
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it's in the stage thread that was created for stage 17 in the clinic
Job done voor Evenepoel en Soudal Quick-Step: 'Komende dagen gaan voor ons wat kalmer zijn'
Job done: dat was de enige conclusie die witte trui
www.indeleiderstrui.nl
At this point defending the third place is the only sensible thing to do. UAE and Visma would never give him the freedom to take time back in the valleys, so by attacking wildly he would only blow himself up.
He's very likely to become the first Belgian on the podium in forty-three years. (Jurgen VDB was officially third, but not on the actual podium.) This would be a big step in his career, erasing all the doubts about his capacities in the high mountains and over three weeks. Hopefully he'll be spared of crashes and diseases, and climb that podium step on Sunday!
He's very likely to become the first Belgian on the podium in forty-three years. (Jurgen VDB was officially third, but not on the actual podium.) This would be a big step in his career, erasing all the doubts about his capacities in the high mountains and over three weeks. Hopefully he'll be spared of crashes and diseases, and climb that podium step on Sunday!
He also says there still may be some opportunities considering his margin to 4th/5th place is substantial. I think if he feels something is possible or Vingegaard shows some weakness, he might try something. But that he's not going to just do whatever it takes to try and take time on Vingegaard as if they were battling for yellow.Job done voor Evenepoel en Soudal Quick-Step: 'Komende dagen gaan voor ons wat kalmer zijn'
Job done: dat was de enige conclusie die witte trui
Your point is lost in the rush to find a trending/illegal boost in performance and the implication you make is a disingenuous nod to doping with absence of specific evidence . No one here is totally naive so that dialogue is real and has a venue. Go there and beat your drum or whatever gets you off.
As for the likelihood that every team involved in this particular stage would also be privy to that amazing beneficial nectar and respond identically and spectacularly; that's a unicorn fantasy proposition. All the wattage experts audit the part of the climb where everyone goes nuclear and are totally, strategically vested in "going til they blow" not to lose time. Remco settled earlier but the same thing occurred with him because all of these guys were racing ba*ls out in the f*ckn Tour de France! Dope or not; they had a phenomenal pacing setup that allowed them to throw down those "numbers" you use to vest your veiled argument.
Unless you can provide the profile for the entire stage with each rider's adjusted +/- effort compared to Pantani (from his millenium) or other Icon that's the reference point you don't have a serious comparable model. Oh, add the effort output for 4 or 5 stages prior as well.
As for Pogacar and Gianetti....again; that's not the same as Ferrari at a cost of nearly 7 figures a year for Armstrong and his sponsors when no other riders received that service. Get off that track if you're arguing a vague comparable to Pantani's climb or any other for that matter because your in deeper waters than your boots.
The fact that the better trained talent all laid down their best effort on the same day is not much of a conspiratorial coincidence. Every fan knew the sh*t would hit the fan when the stage was announced so it'd be surprising which riders weren't prepared. They all train better and smarter than the Armstrong era.
Yeah but I don't see him attacking today for example. He won't force it himself knowing what is coming the following days.
Most of the people here comparing the new with the old record are "forgetting" the conditions. The 98 pantani ride was the one where Ulrich had a flat tire just before the start of the climb. The whole group waited and there was little pacing on the first third / half. Pantani also rode the rest alone. He probably coukld have gone at least a minute, but probably 1.5 tot 2 minutes faster if the race scenario was like 2024.
You would expect the peleton to creep to the 98 ride over the years but PdB has not been in the Tour that much; Froome was in the rain in 2015. In 2011 Vanendert won, not really an all time great.
Yes Pog, Vinge and Remco are flying, but to me this is the best rider since Merckx who is challenging intense competitors like Vinge and Remco to catch up. Expect more records to follow.
You would expect the peleton to creep to the 98 ride over the years but PdB has not been in the Tour that much; Froome was in the rain in 2015. In 2011 Vanendert won, not really an all time great.
Yes Pog, Vinge and Remco are flying, but to me this is the best rider since Merckx who is challenging intense competitors like Vinge and Remco to catch up. Expect more records to follow.
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