Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[AmRacer]

Excited think in 2-3 years some people will be surprised.

Is that something to be discussed in the Clinic?

 

[AmRacer]

No not at all, unlike you I don't find everything to be a conspiracy.

Unlike me? You don't know what I think.

 

[Karl Merckx]

I was talking about the WCC'22. Which he most certainly lost in the corners. He could have won it without jetlag, but there was no scenario where he could resolve that issue (jetlag). There were however plenty of scenario's where the issue of his cornering could have been resolved/improved enough to beat the great Tobias Foss. The Vuelta '22 TT wasn't that technical IIRC. I have no idea what you think that proves.

Didn't it occur to you that there might be a link between jetlag and cornering ? That the jetlag might have impacted his cornering ?
You really think there's only one variable influencing your (cornering) performance, which is your intrinsic capability at taking corners ?
For example, the Vuelta ITT was not technical but there was a chicane that he took faster than anyone else. He did more recons of this ITT than any other rider. Maybe there's also a link here ?
Foss was faster in the corners than Remco and he was there for 2 weeks...

Evenepoel himself says he did his best numbers (up til then) in a TT : https://www.wielerflits.be/nieuws/brons-voor-remco-evenepoel-qua-waarden-mijn-beste-tijdrit-ooit/

Sorry but that's not what he says, "Ik werk hier puur gevoelsmatig mijn beste tijdrit ooit af" is not the same as saying "ik rijdt hier mijn beste wattages ooit"...

And here is one of many who said the same thing: "Evenepoel lost the WCC in the corners".

In case you need other sources :

Championnats du monde: Foss, Küng et… le jetlag étaient plus forts que Remco sur le chrono

Médaillé de bronze du chrono, Evenepoel espère désormais effacer les stigmates du décalage horaire pour la course en ligne de dimanche prochain.

www.lalibre.be

Remco Evenepoel 3e du contre-la-montre: «Je tomberais bien de sommeil»

Troisième du contre-la-montre, Remco Evenepoel assure vouloir remporter un jour le titre mondial.

www.lesoir.be

 

[kingjr]

TT will be difficult, expect more from the road race. I think he’ll win two medals but no gold

Yeah, I don't see Tarling lose the TT.

 

[Berflamand]

I think this is the first time the ITT is this soon after the Tour, or Worlds ITT is after Vuelta in any case. That's gonna make it even harder to predict.

That said, the field behing the 3 favorites looks terrible to me

Who do you think is missing in this field? Or do you mean that the others haven't shown good form or that the TT field in general is lacking behind the 3 favorites?

 

[houtdffan]

I can't see him beating Tarling and Ganna in the ITT, and I can't see him beating at least MvdP in the road race. Both simply due to preparation. He had to go hard 3 weeks, MvdP sandbagged 3 weeks. And for the ITT, the other two have this as main season target even (with Ganna also going for it on the track).

what is the wind?

If it's a headwind, Remco has it in the bag

 

[Berniece]

what is the wind?

If it's a headwind, Remco has it in the bag

At the moment there is barely any wind, and it's coming from the south. So it shouldn't have an impact.

 

[Coffeeplanter]

Of course Remco can beat Ganna and Tarling, just like Tarling and Ganna can beat Remco. It just comes down to margins we cannot see, e.g. form of the day. It is true, Remco is at a disadvantage due to (possible) fatigue and lack of specific training, but on the other hand, supercompensation is a weird beast.

The most recent TT in the Dauphine I think speaks volumes of how close these guys are: Remco gains 4 seconds on Tarling in a section that should suit the latter more, and vice versa Tarling gains 4 seconds on Remco in the middle phase which should once again suit the latter more.

 

[AmRacer]

Of course Remco can beat Ganna and Tarling, just like Tarling and Ganna can beat Remco. It just comes down to margins we cannot see, e.g. form of the day. It is true, Remco is at a disadvantage due to (possible) fatigue and lack of specific training, but on the other hand, supercompensation is a weird beast.

The most recent TT in the Dauphine I think speaks volumes of how close these guys are: Remco gains 4 seconds on Tarling in a section that should suit the latter more, and vice versa Tarling gains 4 seconds on Remco in the middle phase which should once again suit the latter more.

Remco is at his mountain weight so it's not ideal.

 

[Flurk1982]

I can't see him beating Tarling and Ganna in the ITT, and I can't see him beating at least MvdP in the road race. Both simply due to preparation. He had to go hard 3 weeks, MvdP sandbagged 3 weeks. And for the ITT, the other two have this as main season target even (with Ganna also going for it on the track).

The main season goal of Remco is also the Olympics. He said in an interview after stage 21 Tdf, now i want to become OC ITT. It will be difficult, but not impossible against Tarling and Ganna. In the road race with teams of max 4 riders and Belgium two main favorites the chance maybe even bigger. Vanderpoel has to make a choice, the wheel of Van Aert or Evenepoel. Guess which wheel he prefers?

 

[AmRacer]

The main season goal of Remco is also the Olympics. He said in an interview after stage 21 Tdf, now i want to become OC ITT. It will be difficult, but not impossible against Tarling and Ganna. In the road race with teams of max 4 riders and Belgium two main favorites the chance maybe even bigger. Vanderpoel has to make a choice, the wheel of Van Aert or Evenepoel. Guess which wheel he prefers?

Teddy Merckx...

Remco's, since Wout is nowhere near his best.

 

[Berniece]

The main season goal of Remco is also the Olympics. He said in an interview after stage 21 Tdf, now i want to become OC ITT. It will be difficult, but not impossible against Tarling and Ganna. In the road race with teams of max 4 riders and Belgium two main favorites the chance maybe even bigger. Vanderpoel has to make a choice, the wheel of Van Aert or Evenepoel. Guess which wheel he prefers?

Or the wheel of Stuyven, Belgium really has the team to keep attacking and trying to tire MVDP

 

[red_flanders]

Or the wheel of Stuyven, Belgium really has the team to keep attacking and trying to tire MVDP

Would be great to see them working together that effectively.

 

[Berniece]

Would be great to see them working together that effectively.

Part 1 will be still being together in the last 100km’s. That already will be hard with so few riders

 

[red_flanders]

The main season goal of Remco is also the Olympics. He said in an interview after stage 21 Tdf, now i want to become OC ITT. It will be difficult, but not impossible against Tarling and Ganna. In the road race with teams of max 4 riders and Belgium two main favorites the chance maybe even bigger. Vanderpoel has to make a choice, the wheel of Van Aert or Evenepoel. Guess which wheel he prefers?

There are few chances to win this! He's got a great opportunity right now. He's in great shape. Yes, the competition is super strong and peaking for the Olympics, but that's always going to be the case. He's got to feel he's going to win this, and I wish him luck.

The top contenders are all tremendous, likable riders. Should be a great show.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Remco is at his mountain weight so it's not ideal.

LMAO

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Didn't it occur to you that there might be a link between jetlag and cornering ? That the jetlag might have impacted his cornering ?
You really think there's only one variable influencing your (cornering) performance, which is your intrinsic capability at taking corners ?
For example, the Vuelta ITT was not technical but there was a chicane that he took faster than anyone else. He did more recons of this ITT than any other rider. Maybe there's also a link here ?
Foss was faster in the corners than Remco and he was there for 2 weeks...


Sorry but that's not what he says, "Ik werk hier puur gevoelsmatig mijn beste tijdrit ooit af" is not the same as saying "ik rijdt hier mijn beste wattages ooit"...

In case you need other sources :

Championnats du monde: Foss, Küng et… le jetlag étaient plus forts que Remco sur le chrono

Médaillé de bronze du chrono, Evenepoel espère désormais effacer les stigmates du décalage horaire pour la course en ligne de dimanche prochain.

www.lalibre.be

Remco Evenepoel 3e du contre-la-montre: «Je tomberais bien de sommeil»

Troisième du contre-la-montre, Remco Evenepoel assure vouloir remporter un jour le titre mondial.

www.lesoir.be

So... you are now using arguments i have used in the past... to prove me wrong. Doing better recons has been one of my pet peeves when it comes to losing time in such TT's.

Jetlag influencing his cornering? Never heard of that, but i won't be claiming it's not possible. Fatigue can influence your cornering, so if he was (mentally) tired, that might be possible. But unfortunately i have eyes, and i doubt every time Evenepoel takes questionable corners, you can invoke him having jetlag. I know how you take a corner at high speed, i got my motorcycle driver's license when i was 19, and it was my only way of transportation until i bought my first car, when i was 32. If i would have taken corners like Evenepoel, i wouldn't have lived to see my 20th birthday.

So, recon... yes that was what i was talking about as one of the margins he can still greatly improve upon and one of the reasons why he lost in Wollongong... it also goes hand in hand with cornering technique. If your base technique is solid enough, you can limit the losses. Doing recons, the advantage gradually declines the more you do it. Most gains will be made from 0 to 1 recon. Then doing 2 will still greatly affect the outcome, but less. And for every recon the gains shrink. He was in Wollongong for 4 days, Foss for 2 weeks. The advantage from 4 to 14 days should have been significant indeed, but no longer in the 1-2 minutes, which is probably what he actually lost. Foss lost over 2 minutes last year in the WCC. In Algarve '22 Foss lost 1m11s to Evenepoel over 32km. At the OG in '21, he lost over 2 minutes to Evenepoel. To give you an idea.

To my recollection he actually did (also) say he pushed his biggest watts. Regardless, he admits he could have won on a less technical parcours. Which is basically admitting to his cornering being the the issue. Could jetlag have played a role in his cornering, who knows, i won't claim it's impossible. But what definitely played a part, is his subpar cornering technique, which was again on display this TDF when he didn't have jetlag.

 

[Karl Merckx]

Too long didn't read in full but i guess you made your point, mine is that you're ignoring a lot of factors at play in this matter. Sometimes RE is a really good pilot on his itt bike, sometimes he isn't.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Too long didn't read in full but i guess you made your point, mine is that you're ignoring a lot of factors at play in this matter. Sometimes RE is a really good pilot on his itt bike, sometimes he isn't.

The problem doesn't end with the TT bike unfortunately. And "sometimes he is, sometimes he isn't", that means his base technique isn't where it's supposed to be.

If you can't be bothered to read a couple of paragraphs in a discussion you initiated, then what are you doing?

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Anyone thought that Remco may not turn out as good a rider as he was spoken about, when coming through the juniors? Every cyclist/sportsperson has their limits on what they can do. This lad is spoken about all his flaws and the improvements that are needed so he can become this perfect cyclist in every race that he enters. He isn't. He isn't gonna be the best rider that people want him to be, not in every race. No wonder he feels so much pressure whenever he rides, when folk are dissecting every tiny detail in his performances. Let the lad just ride his bike to the best of his ability, and if he's good enough, then great, if not, whatever, he lost. Give him a break FFS.

 

[Taxus4a]

I agree he's got a lot to make up for in bike handling, clearly a limiter for him. However, I can't get with the bolded.

I accept that "close" is subjective. It's a good question, makes you think what he really could have saved, time-wise. We know he lost around 40 seconds just in the final TT descent. Devastating, really. Seemingly so easy to improve vs training capacity. Wasted energy chasing back on Galibier? Several other times, really. Did it show later a little? Not being relaxed, descending on every col? Maybe, I don't know. I think we all know having to chase back is not nuthin'. Unless you're in top shape, those efforts tax you. But he really was fit, so hard to say. I would guess it cost him 2.5 minutes overall. If that's right, it would be 7 or so minutes . That doesn't seem close, but it darn well seems significant. Maybe it's more, probably not much less. Would love to hear what others think.

I'd rather try and grab back 2.5 minutes by being a great bike handler than trying to get 2.5 minutes more fit. Seems way more efficient and way more fun.

He IS super Aero and have a good aceleration, so not a big problem to Chase in every corner...but it he could save that energy or spending it to attack descending he could use that tongo alone and in a situation with team mates ahead ro be dangerous. But si doubts he knows to play tactics like that. As well as he proved he can attack and drop Vingegaard, but later Vingegaard catch him and overpass him...dont put a hard pace...send Landa 200 metros ahead and attack with everything. I am going to see if what you put he lose descending in Nice IS true...becouse would be amazing. Atba solf descent of about 3-5% without corners he is the best. More slope I have my doubts becouse he is not heavy.

 

[Berniece]

Anyone thought that Remco may not turn out as good a rider as he was spoken about, when coming through the juniors? Every cyclist/sportsperson has their limits on what they can do. This lad is spoken about all his flaws and the improvements that are needed so he can become this perfect cyclist in every race that he enters. He isn't. He isn't gonna be the best rider that people want him to be, not in every race. No wonder he feels so much pressure whenever he rides, when folk are dissecting every tiny detail in his performances. Let the lad just ride his bike to the best of his ability, and if he's good enough, then great, if not, whatever, he lost. Give him a break FFS.

I still think he can become that person. I can see him win every GT and monument, with Roubaix being the hardest for which he'll need to specifically train on riding over cobbles.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Remco is at his mountain weight so it's not ideal.

Remco is absorbing pizzas and donuts as we speak. He'll hit his peak TT weight on time.

 

[Salvarani]

Anyone thought that Remco may not turn out as good a rider as he was spoken about, when coming through the juniors? Every cyclist/sportsperson has their limits on what they can do. This lad is spoken about all his flaws and the improvements that are needed so he can become this perfect cyclist in every race that he enters. He isn't. He isn't gonna be the best rider that people want him to be, not in every race. No wonder he feels so much pressure whenever he rides, when folk are dissecting every tiny detail in his performances. Let the lad just ride his bike to the best of his ability, and if he's good enough, then great, if not, whatever, he lost. Give him a break FFS.

Well said, no one is wishing bad on the kid. Just let him ride. He didnt turn into was what promised but who cares. So what.

 

[Karl Merckx]

The problem doesn't end with the TT bike unfortunately. And "sometimes he is, sometimes he isn't", that means his base technique isn't where it's supposed to be.

The thing is that even with a better base technique he'd still be good sometimes and bad at other times, base technique isn't the only factor determining performance, and one could argue that it's in fact a minor factor.