Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Sciatic]

That was Lemond in 89 who rode to get into shape.

He rode for real in 1985 and 1986, as did most of the other contenders. Same as Fignon in 1989

Good point. Although the Giro was well known to be more tranquilo in that era.

 

[dercuforever]

He could start by not crashing in April and eating pies and strudels in June before the Dauphine

He should have lost this by 2-3 minutes. Not the 10 he did. That is down to the crash and using the Ullrich training method

Ullrich "3kg, pfft, those are rookie numbers, in my time I took 20 of those, every single winter"

 

[Extinction]

That was when they used the Giro to ride into shape for the Tour, like LeMond did in ‘89. Jonas isn’t going to just ride around Italy lolling in the
Peloton until the end of the race. Obviously, if he rides Giro it will be to win.

Lemond pre-hunting accident didn't just ride the Giro to get in shape. Nor did Hinault or Fignon at the time, nor Indurain and Pantani afterwards. It all changed with Armstrong, who literally thought of nothing but the Tour.

 

[Berniece]

Sorry if i missed the sarcasm. But this was a problem on August 15th, 2020. Which subsequently made it an issue ever since, as it meant he lost 2 seasons in his physical development, and a string of issues that are still not resolved today.

I’m saying that ever since that crash they never encountered the descending as an issue that needed to be solved. Until now. They have a mindset in that team that they don’t need to improve something if they aren’t confronted with it being a serious issue. Hopefully this will tell them it is, but I doubt it.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I’m saying that ever since that crash they never encountered the descending as an issue that needed to be solved. Until now. They have a mindset in that team that they don’t need to improve something if they aren’t confronted with it being a serious issue. Hopefully this will tell them it is, but I doubt it.

He lost the 22WCC ITT due to bad cornering. They didn't fix it before, nor after.

 

[red_flanders]

That was Lemond in 89 who rode to get into shape.

He rode for real in 1985 and 1986, as did most of the other contenders. Same as Fignon in 1989

True, but also true that “for real” in the 80s meant a lot of days off during the race. The Giro was ridden way more chill back in the day.

 

[Froome]

You also have to see what kind of course it is

If it is a 90s TDF course with 140km of flat ITT with 70km of TTT, then yes, focus more on your TT (but don't forget climbing). If it is the current course, then yes, focus on climbing more

It's true that the current routes are missing more km flat TTs, but the routes of the Indurain and Armstrong era are not that great in terms of quantity and sometimes quality of the design of real mountain stages, plus medium mountain stages.

 

[houtdffan]

It's true that the current routes are missing more km flat TTs, but the routes of the Indurain and Armstrong era are not that great in terms of quantity and sometimes quality of the design of real mountain stages, plus medium mountain stages.

There weren't as many mountain stages then, but the ones the tended to be 2-3 absolutely brutal ones. Far more brutal than anything we saw this year

 

[Berniece]

He lost the 22WCC ITT due to bad cornering. They didn't fix it before, nor after.

They didn’t feel it was due to bad cornering I believe

 

[Sciatic]

Lemond pre-hunting accident didn't just ride the Giro to get in shape. Nor did Hinault or Fignon at the time, nor Indurain and Pantani afterwards. It all changed with Armstrong, who literally thought of nothing but the Tour.

I agree—but the Giro wasn’t ridden as “hard” in those days, but also since that was the norm for many we can’t gauge how it might have decreased their Tour performances. Maybe their wattage and recovery was better in Tour after doing the Giro or maybe it was worse than if they skipped the Giro. That they had success in the Tour against riders who were doing similar schedules doesn’t tell us if the Giro diminished (or improved) their Tour performance.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

They didn’t feel it was due to bad cornering I believe

Lol, then they really are idiots. He said he never pushed bigger watts in a TT... But he got beat by Foss who never before and never since reached that level, yet who did a meticulous prep/recon of the course. Analist all agreed Evenepoel lost it in the corners.

 

[Berniece]

Lol, then they really are idiots. He said he never pushed bigger watts in a TT... But he got beat by Foss who never before and never since reached that level, yet who did a meticulous prep/recon of the course. Analist all agreed Evenepoel lost it in the corners.

I see that as the only logical explanation, if you ask Evenepoel he’ll probably say there is nothing wrong with his cornering

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Lol, then they really are idiots. He said he never pushed bigger watts in a TT... But he got beat by Foss who never before and never since reached that level, yet who did a meticulous prep/recon of the course. Analist all agreed Evenepoel lost it in the corners.

Man, you should be Remco's coach. His weight and cornering would never be issues anymore!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Man, you should be Remco's coach. His weight and cornering would never be issues anymore!

Feel free to come up with a more logical explanation why powerhouse Foss beat him. Also feel free to look at the actual race.

 

[Unchained]

Lemond pre-hunting accident didn't just ride the Giro to get in shape. Nor did Hinault or Fignon at the time, nor Indurain and Pantani afterwards. It all changed with Armstrong, who literally thought of nothing but the Tour.

All good points.. For fans of other sports and for semi initiated into bike racing few can understand why there would not be defined measurements.. Like World cups, playoffs or Championships.. Currently a person winning the world championship is less than the rider winning the TDF and races and racers are less if their schedule puts a greater weight value on Giro or Vuelta instead of the TDF..the obvious answer is to allow Giro timeframe to stay around the same despite problems with late snow conditions and slightly adjust TDF and Visits for increase in between races, add title and significant financial incentives to compete in all three..
Pogacar for example looks like he could contest Vuelta w 3-4 weeks in between the two major events. Bike racing would be doing itself a long term benefit to have a long term easy to follow points series like F1 , GP1 or NFL..in my opinion

 

[Valv.Piti]

I will start calling Foss "Powerhouse Foss". If I ever see him in a WT race again that is

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Feel free to come up with a more logical explanation why powerhouse Foss beat him. Also feel free to look at the actual race.

I wasn't disagreeing with your view though!

 

[Extinction]

I agree—but the Giro wasn’t ridden as “hard” in those days, but also since that was the norm for many we can’t gauge how it might have decreased their Tour performances. Maybe their wattage and recovery was better in Tour after doing the Giro or maybe it was worse than if they skipped the Giro. That they had success in the Tour against riders who were doing similar schedules doesn’t tell us if the Giro diminished (or improved) their Tour performance.

Fact is, it's harder to take on the Giro-Tour today then it was 30-40 years ago. The general level of the peloton has risen significantly and you mostly have guys going to either the Giro or the Tour, not both, as with UAE except Pogacar obviously.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I wasn't disagreeing with your view though!

Sorry, felt like you were taking the piss.

 

[Froome]

Fact is, it's harder today to take on the Giro-Tour today then it was 30-40 years ago. The general level of the peloton has risen significantly and you mostly have guys going to either the Giro or the Tour, not both, as with UAE except Pogacar obviously.

Maybe, but this year everything went perfect.

The Giro route was super light, no competition there(i overestimated this edition of the Giro) and then in the Tour, the competition didn't had a proper preparation due to injuries. Everything went perfect, there wasn't also some bad luck like some crash or sickness.

 

[Extinction]

All good points.. For fans of other sports and for semi initiated into bike racing few can understand why there would not be defined measurements.. Like World cups, playoffs or Championships.. Currently a person winning the world championship is less than the rider winning the TDF and races and racers are less if their schedule puts a greater weight value on Giro or Vuelta instead of the TDF..the obvious answer is to allow Giro timeframe to stay around the same despite problems with late snow conditions and slightly adjust TDF and Visits for increase in between races, add title and significant financial incentives to compete in all three..
Pogacar for example looks like he could contest Vuelta w 3-4 weeks in between the two major events. Bike racing would be doing itself a long term benefit to have a long term easy to follow points series like F1 , GP1 or NFL..in my opinion

The problem is the Tour has gotten too big for the good of the sport, at least from the sponsorship point of view. Consequently, Pogacar notwithstanding, most don't want to risk their Tour prep and so fewer champions do munuments or the Giro before.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Sorry, felt like you were taking the piss.

Sometimes I can't help myself making fun of people or situations but yeah, you probably have a point regarding that TT.

 

[Extinction]

Maybe, but this year everything went perfect.

The Giro route was super light, no competition there(i overestimated this edition of the Giro) and then in the Tour, the competition didn't had a proper preparation due to injuries. Everything went perfect, there wasn't also some bad luck like some crash or sickness.

I think Evenepoel should now try the double. He might finally get the Giro and if Pogacar and Vingegaard are on the same level or better next Tour, he's really got nothing to lose.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Maybe, but this year everything went perfect.

The Giro route was super light, no competition there(i overestimated this edition of the Giro) and then in the Tour, the competition didn't had a proper preparation due to injuries. Everything went perfect, there wasn't also some bad luck like some crash or sickness.

You really don't need to belittle the magitude of this Giro-Tour double. The competition at the Tour was among the strongest ever: the 2nd and 3rd guy would've demolished the field in absurd fashion without the other two present and they both showed great climbing/time-trialing level.

 

[Froome]

I think Evenepoel should now try the double. He might finally get the Giro and if Pogacar and Vingegaard are on the same level or better next Tour, he's really got nothing to lose.

Probably Pogacar will be at the Giro next year. The Giro will go trough Slovenia right?