Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[AmRacer]

Pretty sure I remember Evenepoel being allowed a gap in the first place.

Pog looked at Jonas and Jonas told Pog 'You have the yellow'.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Same same. They won't let the other go, whether they succeed is another thing.

It is certainly not the same. In a 250+km race you have to manage your efforts quite differently and think tactically in how/when you will respond or not. Like how Pogacar let Evenepoel go in the break in Wollongong and didn't respond. He thought he was playing the long game, but instead he was playing the losing game. A lot depends on how many domestiques you still have at your disposal. At 130km into a race, you are more likely to have your full team ready to close gaps and bring back breaks for you. At km 200, you could be lucky to have still one teammate with you. It is exactly the reason why i predicted Evenepoel to win the OG.

 

[AmRacer]

It is certainly not the same. In a 250+km race you have to manage your efforts quite differently and think tactically in how/when you will respond or not. Like how Pogacar let Evenepoel go in the break in Wollongong and didn't respond. He thought he was playing the long game, but instead he was playing the losing game. A lot depends on how many domestiques you still have at your disposal. At 130km into a race, you are more likely to have your full team ready to close gaps and bring back breaks for you. At km 200, you could be lucky to have still one teammate with you. It is exactly the reason why i predicted Evenepoel to win the OG.

Pog did many things wrong in 2022, de has learned from that. If either Remco or Tadej is strong enough to pull the other one back is another story.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Pog did many things wrong in 2022, de has learned from that. If either Remco or Tadej is strong enough to pull the other one back is another story.

That goes beyond saying. The point is that responding to an attack in a stage is very different to responding to an attack in a monument. It's in Evenepoel's favor to make it a long hard final with most of the peloton/domestiques gone. Less people to mark him, one moment of being inattentive and he's gone. While the other way around, he can still bring you back even if he gets dropped.

 

[AmRacer]

That goes beyond saying. The point is that responding to an attack in a stage is very different to responding to an attack in a monument. It's in Evenepoel's favor to make it a long hard final with most of the peloton/domestiques gone. Less people to mark him, one moment of being inattentive and he's gone. While the other way around, he can still bring you back even if he gets dropped.

Remco can only bring Tadej back if the route is in Remco's favour, same with Tadej.
The peloton is bullying WvA, denying him the win when he's with Remco.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Remco can only bring Tadej back if the route is in Remco's favour, same with Tadej.
The peloton is bullying WvA, denying him the win when he's with Remco.

We were discussing a scenario where Pogacar drops Evenepoel in RVV on Oude Kwaremont. Imho, this would be a lot less of a deciding factor with all the flat sections still to come, compared to Evenepoel getting a gap on one of the flat sections. The first does not mean race over, the second basically does.

 

[Salvarani]

How many times has Pog been brought back in his solos.

Either one going solo, dropping the other, likely means race over.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I remember Evenepoel closing a 15s gap to Pogacar in the TDF on a flat section, just about a month ago.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I remember Evenepoel closing a 15s gap to Pogacar in the TDF on a flat section, just about a month ago.

Where? San Luca? He came back because Vingegaard didn't want to work with Pogacar.

 

[rghysens]

6.3 doesn't exactly track with Pogacar doing supposedly 6.9 on PdB.

Well, if you take into account that Evenepoel lost almost 3 minutes, and that he may be a bit lighter, it can be.

 

[Berniece]

Where? San Luca? He came back because Vingegaard didn't want to work with Pogacar.

Doesn't really matter, Evenepoel is smaller, and the better TT'er. He'll always have an advantage on the flat sections.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Where? San Luca? He came back because Vingegaard didn't want to work with Pogacar.

Neither did Carapaz. He also brought back the deficit on the flat sections after Galibier. He also closed down Pogacar after Col du Noyer and then attacked himself after which Vingegaard needed 3 teammates to help him keep the gap steady. I think it's no secret anymore that Evenepoel is the best rouleur on the planet? Or are we still going to debate that?

 

[Peyroteo94]

Neither did Carapaz. He also brought back the deficit on the flat sections after Galibier. He also closed down Pogacar after Col du Noyer and then attacked himself after which Vingegaard needed 3 teammates to help him keep the gap steady. I think it's no secret anymore that Evenepoel is the best rouleur on the planet? Or are we still going to debate that?

Better to wait for worlds to see if he can keep up with Pogacar or even drop him.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Better to wait for worlds to see if he can keep up with Pogacar or even drop him.

What does that have to do with anything. Worlds is not like RVV and the parcours doesn't particularly favor the best rouleur.

 

[Gratemans]

We are talking about 250+km one day races, not 150+km stages in a 3 week race.

I remember Evenepoel closing a 15s gap to Pogacar in the TDF on a flat section, just about a month ago.

So you are allowed to compare a classic to a Tour stage when it suits you, or what?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

@Gratemans thanks for proving my point even further. If Evenepoel can close a gap in a short stage, then he is even more at an advantage in a long race. Which, the numbers actually show.

 

[stekelegel]

The one race Evenepoel rode that was like Flanders was glasgow 2023. Not really a succes.
No doubt he could ride top 5 there, but still to early to say he can ride it like WVA, VDP and Pog.
In Paris he was nowhere when Vanderpoel stormed up Montmartre and got a lucky break with Pedersen missing out and the Danes bringing him back.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The one race Evenepoel rode that was like Flanders was glasgow 2023. Not really a succes.
No doubt he could ride top 5 there, but still to early to say he can ride it like WVA, VDP and Pog.
In Paris he was nowhere when Vanderpoel stormed up Montmartre and got a lucky break with Pedersen missing out and the Danes bringing him back.

He was at the team car getting his brakes fixed. And the only reason he did not try to close that gap himself (which he would have been perfectly capable of, seeing how he closed the gap to the group that MvdP and WvA weren't able to bridge to) is because Van Aert was in that break. But sure, he was lucky. He's always lucky, lol. The longer people keep actually believing he is always lucky, the better for him i guess.

I also think Leuven '21 was a lot more like Flanders than Glasgow was.

He also doesn't need to ride it like WvA, MvdP or Pog. He needs to ride it like Evenepoel.

 

[AmRacer]

We were discussing a scenario where Pogacar drops Evenepoel in RVV on Oude Kwaremont. Imho, this would be a lot less of a deciding factor with all the flat sections still to come, compared to Evenepoel getting a gap on one of the flat sections. The first does not mean race over, the second basically does.

If Remco can get a gap on the last flat. Same with how big the gap is for Pog after Oude. It can very well be game over.

 

[AmRacer]

He was at the team car getting his brakes fixed. And the only reason he did not try to close that gap himself (which he would have been perfectly capable of, seeing how he closed the gap to the group that MvdP and WvA weren't able to bridge to) is because Van Aert was in that break. But sure, he was lucky. He's always lucky, lol. The longer people keep actually believing he is always lucky, the better for him i guess.

I also think Leuven '21 was a lot more like Flanders than Glasgow was.

He also doesn't need to ride it like WvA, MvdP or Pog. He needs to ride it like Evenepoel.

Remco was done, he was on the wrong weight.

 

[Berniece]

The one race Evenepoel rode that was like Flanders was glasgow 2023.

In what way was that similar? Only due to the many corners and twists and turns?

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

The one race Evenepoel rode that was like Flanders was glasgow 2023. Not really a succes.
No doubt he could ride top 5 there, but still to early to say he can ride it like WVA, VDP and Pog.
In Paris he was nowhere when Vanderpoel stormed up Montmartre and got a lucky break with Pedersen missing out and the Danes bringing him back.

I understand people having questions about Remco's dominance in juniors translating to pro peleton, but it's his 6th year riding in pro peleton and he keeps winning by breaking away in long one day races. Sure luck plays a role in every race, but to say Remco got lucky in the Olympic Road race sounds like sour grapes.

Remco's advantage is that he is extremely difficult to follow, he seems to have the least amount of degradition over longer rides especially when they go over 250km.

The WC in Zurich will be a race of attrition. The variables are form, crashes, mechanicals etc.

Going into the WC the favorites will be the usual guys Remco and Pogacar with a side of Healy, Buitrago. MVDP, Wout, Mads, Yates Brothers, Carlos Rodriguez, Hirschi, Alaphillipe and a few others who are good climbers.

It's going to be hard to see past Remco or Pogacar in this race, but form is critical and of course one neer knows about crashes and mechanicals.

The Belgian selction should be interesting given the course I would assume we'll see Remco, Van Aert, Stuyvens, Benoot, Hermans as for the last few choices I could see Van Gils, Wellens and De Lie with De Plus, Van Wilder and Van Eetvelt in the mix as well depending on form, injuries and availability.

 

[stekelegel]

On a r

I understand people having questions about Remco's dominance in juniors translating to pro peleton, but it's his 6th year riding in pro peleton and he keeps winning by breaking away in long one day races. Sure luck plays a role in every race, but to say Remco got lucky in the Olympic Road race sounds like sour grapes.

Remco's advantage is that he is extremely difficult to follow, he seems to have the least amount of degradition over longer rides especially when they go over 250km.

The WC in Zurich will be a race of attrition. The variables are form, crashes, mechanicals etc.

Going into the WC the favorites will be the usual guys Remco and Pogacar with a side of Healy, Buitrago. MVDP, Wout, Mads, Yates Brothers, Carlos Rodriguez, Hirschi, Alaphillipe and a few others who are good climbers.

It's going to be hard to see past Remco or Pogacar in this race, but form is critical and of course one neer knows about crashes and mechanicals.

The Belgian selction should be interesting given the course I would assume we'll see Remco, Van Aert, Stuyvens, Benoot, Hermans as for the last few choices I could see Van Gils, Wellens and De Lie with De Plus, Van Wilder and Van Eetvelt in the mix as well depending on form, injuries and availability.

I did not say it was a fluke win or that he was not the best on the day. But you see it so often that the chasers start looking around and when you would have given those 5 guys a minute on that route, with the small teams, there is almost no coming back. Or that he had the flat tire only after his advantage was big enough. On that route, he got that little bit of luck and when the opportunity to attack was there, he killed it because he was the strongest on the day.

On topic, I just haven’t seen him dominate a race yet with those typical short power burst hills, cobbles, lots of turning almost to a standstill and launching again like he has done with medium to tough hill classics.
I don’t doubt that he could finish a scenario like Wollongong in Flanders to, giving him some space, but that will not happen very often. I just wonder if he can keep up when Vanderpoel or Pog explode on Kwaremont, Koppenberg, Pater… I think that race is very hard to win if you are distanced there a few times. Does following those guys on those climbs cost him more energy then others? Does he loose to much energy on al those short turns vs acrobats like Van Aert and Vanderpoel.

And probably not riding it in 2025.’’’

 

[Andre]

I understand people having questions about Remco's dominance in juniors translating to pro peleton, but it's his 6th year riding in pro peleton and he keeps winning by breaking away in long one day races. Sure luck plays a role in every race, but to say Remco got lucky in the Olympic Road race sounds like sour grapes.

Remco's advantage is that he is extremely difficult to follow, he seems to have the least amount of degradition over longer rides especially when they go over 250km.

The WC in Zurich will be a race of attrition. The variables are form, crashes, mechanicals etc.

Going into the WC the favorites will be the usual guys Remco and Pogacar with a side of Healy, Buitrago. MVDP, Wout, Mads, Yates Brothers, Carlos Rodriguez, Hirschi, Alaphillipe and a few others who are good climbers.

It's going to be hard to see past Remco or Pogacar in this race, but form is critical and of course one neer knows about crashes and mechanicals.

The Belgian selction should be interesting given the course I would assume we'll see Remco, Van Aert, Stuyvens, Benoot, Hermans as for the last few choices I could see Van Gils, Wellens and De Lie with De Plus, Van Wilder and Van Eetvelt in the mix as well depending on form, injuries and availability.

How a bout Nys? Can he be considered for the team?

 

[Berniece]

Or that he had the flat tire only after his advantage was big enough.

He was so lucky his flat happened later in the race, what a lucky guy