Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[stekelegel]

Add Catalunya, 22 wins where of 12 GT stages, and Montreal to the equation.

If Evenepoel adds WC and Lombardia he will have had his best year ever and a truly remarkable, unprecedented achievement.
But Pogacar's year has allready been better, winning the double GT and almost anything else he rode. If he adds the WC, you can say it maybe is teh greatest year ever.
It's like running or jumping a world record, only to see your opponent go even higher / faster.

 

[Bolder]

If Evenepoel adds WC and Lombardia he will have had his best year ever and a truly remarkable, unprecedented achievement.
But Pogacar's year has allready been better, winning the double GT and almost anything else he rode. If he adds the WC, you can say it maybe is teh greatest year ever.
It's like running or jumping a world record, only to see your opponent go even higher / faster.

If they get to the line together at the Wcrr, forum will explode

 

[houtdffan]

a match race will favor Remco whereas keeping things together will favor Pog

If this becomes a match race, Remco can attack on the flat. He gets even a 1 second gap, it's over for Pog. Pog will only get a good view of Remco's ass from 500m

 

[houtdffan]

We all saw that in the gravel stage

This isn't a gravel stage

 

[joe_papp]

I've been saying the same thing

Winning a couple of GTs in one year is obviously pretty cool. But double-golds at OG and WC would be even better. Only a GT sweep would top it.*

*edit: winning MSR + 2 GTs would = OG WC double-double

 

[Mako]

I'm very curious about why it happens in professional road racing so often that Powermeters fail to work. I mean - these guys have an armada of professional mechanics. How does it happen like that? My Powermeter never managed to fail me and I don't treat my bike like a princess. this just bugs me

 

[Berniece]

Fun fact, this was Evenepoel's 100th victory if we include his victories in youth categories. As a pro, his 59th victory.

 

[Berniece]

I'm very curious about why it happens in professional road racing so often that Powermeters fail to work. I mean - these guys have an armada of professional mechanics. How does it happen like that? My Powermeter never managed to fail me and I don't treat my bike like a princess. this just bugs me

It's not that his powermeter didn't work, but he made changes to the screen. After the race he said:

"Then I started playing around with my power meter, but I couldn't find the right screen anymore. So I rode without looking at my values."

 

[wheresmybrakes]

The Dawg used to get ripped to bits for using his power meter during his "better" riding days.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Fun fact, this was Evenepoel's 100th victory if we include his victories in youth categories. As a pro, his 59th victory.

Only if you also include a handful of crits as well

 

[peterfin]

It's not that his powermeter didn't work, but he made changes to the screen. After the race he said:

"Then I started playing around with my power meter, but I couldn't find the right screen anymore. So I rode without looking at my values."

It would help him if he manages his stress a bit better in such situations. 5 seconds of focus to find his power values could have given him a 10 sec gain or more. He probably rode too defensively on that first climb being afraid to go in the red. Also, although he felt being on the limit during the final few km's he crossed the finish without the typical exhaustion of going all-in.

 

[Berniece]

Only if you also include a handful of crits as well

Could be, I just read it in an article and thought I share it.

 

[Berniece]

It would help him if he manages his stress a bit better in such situations. 5 seconds of focus to find his power values could have given him a 10 sec gain or more. He probably rode too defensively on that first climb being afraid to go in the red. Also, although he felt being on the limit during the final few km's he crossed the finish without the typical exhaustion of going all-in.

He thought he could've gained 20s with the proper pacing plan due to his power meter. I don't know if that would actually be the case, but if so, that's a big gap to the 2nd best and I can see him win it a third time next year.

 

[Wyndbrook]

Only if you also include a handful of crits as well

That's interesting, First Cycling and PCS both say 59, usually PCS quote numbers that are lower.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

That's interesting, First Cycling and PCS both say 59, usually PCS quote numbers that are lower.

The crits are included in the 100, not in the 59

so the First Cycling list has

6 Elite international championships
2 National elite titles
3 WT GCs
5 WT one days
16 WT stages (inc 1 TTT) (First Cycling lists 24 WT wins, but counts 23 in citing that data)
9 2.Pro/HC GCs
3 1 .Pro one days
14 2.Pro/HC stages
1 2.1 GC (but that's a Hammer event)
4 2.1 Stages (but 3 of them are Hammer events, marked as TTTs but not really)
1 1.1 one day

Thus far, 64 wins to fit into the 59 UCI wins (presumably excluding 4 Hammer results and the UEA Tour TTT)

Then there are the included Junior events:
4 International titles
2 Nationals
3 J-2.NC GCs
5 J-2.NC stages
2 J-2.1 GCs
5 J-2.1 stages
5 J-1.1 one days
5 Jr one days
2 Jr stages

So 33 Junior wins, the categories of which I don't claim to understand.

That makes 97, then
Gullegem Koerse, marked as an Amateur KP
and Criterium Aalst and Criterium Oostrozebeke, both marked as Amateur 1.CRT

So yes, 100 can be found, but it relies of some odd inclusions.

Not that the unquestionable 59 elite + 33 juniors are to be sniffed at.


By a similar First Cycling reckoning, Pogacar's next win will be his 100th, but his list includes a cyclocross race at NE level, a 2.2 GC, an amateur 1.12 race, 3 U23 wins and 2 crits .

 

[Blanco]

Winning a couple of GTs in one year is obviously pretty cool. But double-golds at OG and WC would be even better. Only a GT sweep would top it.*

*edit: winning MSR + 2 GTs would = OG WC double-double

But winning LBL + 2GTs wouldn't?

 

[Extinction]

OG double + WC double + Lombardia would be incontestably more awesome than TDF + Giro + LBL.

Nah, the Tour is the Tour unfortunately. And it's not just that he won it after the Giro, which nobody's done since Pantani, but the utterly dominating fashion (bar the first TT) in which he won it. Moreover, that's been how he's won every race this year. As used to be said, extraterrestrial. If Evenepoel does win the WCRR and Lombardia now, he'll be close, but I think Tadej's hand trumps his.

 

[shadowrider]

This isn't a gravel stage

Pogacar easily came back during the gravel stage. On a flat section on asphalt. But I agree Pogacar has to react before Evenepoel gets 25 seconds. With his explosivity Pogacar is able to close a gap of 15/20 seconds. After that effort, going in TT-modus, Evenepoel will expand his lead. Slowly, but gradual. But then, the race comes in another fase. The counter attacker will be caught up by a few other riders. Then it depends of the cooperation.
When/if Pogacar himself will make the difference uphill (the other riders and Evenepoel exploding), I don't think Evenepoel will have the legs to come back on the flat. Also not being helped by other riders, only interested to make Evenepoel wear out, in order to end themselfes on the podium.

 

[Berniece]

Pogacar easily came back during the gravel stage. On a flat section on asphalt. But I agree Pogacar has to react before Evenepoel gets 25 seconds. With his explosivity Pogacar is able to close a gap of 15/20 seconds. After that effort, going in TT-modus, Evenepoel will expand his lead. Slowly, but gradual. But then, the race comes in another fase. The counter attacker will be caught up by a few other riders. Then it depends of the cooperation.
When/if Pogacar himself will make the difference uphill (the other riders and Evenepoel exploding), I don't think Evenepoel will have the legs to come back on the flat. Also not being helped by other riders, only interested to make Evenepoel wear out, in order to end themselfes on the podium.

Comparison to the asphalt stage in general is not possible. It was a bigger peloton, with different type of riders, part of a GT where you can't go completely in the red, and it was much farther out.

 

[jmdirt]

Congrats Remco!
GREAT year!

 

[houtdffan]

Pogacar easily came back during the gravel stage. On a flat section on asphalt. But I agree Pogacar has to react before Evenepoel gets 25 seconds. With his explosivity Pogacar is able to close a gap of 15/20 seconds. After that effort, going in TT-modus, Evenepoel will expand his lead. Slowly, but gradual. But then, the race comes in another fase. The counter attacker will be caught up by a few other riders. Then it depends of the cooperation.
When/if Pogacar himself will make the difference uphill (the other riders and Evenepoel exploding), I don't think Evenepoel will have the legs to come back on the flat. Also not being helped by other riders, only interested to make Evenepoel wear out, in order to end themselfes on the podium.

which is why a match race favors Remco. No getting help from the other riders at that point. Wont be able to rely on a small group if Pog and Remco are 5 mins up the road

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Nah, the Tour is the Tour unfortunately. And it's not just that he won it after the Giro, which nobody's done since Pantani, but the utterly dominating fashion (bar the first TT) in which he won it. Moreover, that's been how he's won every race this year. As used to be said, extraterrestrial. If Evenepoel does win the WCRR and Lombardia now, he'll be close, but I think Tadej's hand trumps his.

If Remco wins both they could share it or make the two go to Guangxi and whoever finishes higher takes the prize.

 

[proffate]

But winning LBL + 2GTs wouldn't?

Before Nibali you have to go back all the way to Sean Kelly '92 to find a GT winner taking MSR. So I would say that's a crazier and more rarefied combo than mixing in a Liege for sure. Even better if he found a way to take Roubaix and 2 GTs in a year.

I feel like we're not giving the double double enough credit because Remco makes it look so easy. Like of course he can just ride away, if he can do it once he can do it three more times. But it's so ridiculous and unprecedented that before this year no one had even conceived of its possibility. There were not long winter months of hype and speculation about it like the giro-tour. Sure it's only 4 race days, but a single mistake and it's over. And you only have a chance once each 4 years. Tadej could have had a couple off days or ill timed mechs and still pulled off his double (not that he did, to my recollection), or try again next year.

Seems we were all wrong, neither one of these riders was *the* next Merckx, they were both *a* next Merckx.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

But winning LBL + 2GTs wouldn't?

I think he mistook MSR for LBL and his point is that in case Evenepoel would win WCC RR and IL that they are tied. I have to say that Olympic double is probably more difficult to achieve due to most riders only having about 2 chances throughout their career. And not a lot will be equally dominant in both disciplines to have an actual chance in both disciplines. If Evenepoel manages to win the RR next weekend, i believe that may very well never be seen again. Even OG double could take a very long time, as well as WCC double in their own right. So combining those 4 wins in 1 season, i doubt i'll see it again during my lifetime. Winning a GT double though, i think i will witness a few more of those.

So in terms of rarity, OG double + WCC double completely trumps a GT double, not even close. But i doubt that will be the most deciding factor when voting for Vd'O.

 

[Oldermanish]

I think he mistook MSR for LBL and his point is that in case Evenepoel would win WCC RR and IL that they are tied. I have to say that Olympic double is probably more difficult to achieve due to most riders only having about 2 chances throughout their career. And not a lot will be equally dominant in both disciplines to have an actual chance in both disciplines. If Evenepoel manages to win the RR next weekend, i believe that may very well never be seen again. Even OG double could take a very long time, as well as WCC double in their own right. So combining those 4 wins in 1 season, i doubt i'll see it again during my lifetime. Winning a GT double though, i think i will witness a few more of those.

So in terms of rarity, OG double + WCC double completely trumps a GT double, not even close. But i doubt that will be the most deciding factor when voting for Vd'O.

The OG double is rare, the WCC more rare because of the more seriously broad competition. Great achievements.
In terms of strength and effort; the GT double is much more difficult IMO. You have 42 days in one season to f*ck up no matter how strong you are. On risk exposure alone it is superior.