Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Charlyghoul]

When Simoni and Cunego won their Giros, the overall level was significantly lower than today and the difference with the Tour even more marked. Simoni took over from Pantani's demise and Armstrong cared only for the Tour. In fact, also with the shift of the Vuelta to late summer, which made it ideal for Worlds prep, the Giro got reduced pretty much to a provincial Italian affair at the time. In this context (weak field) and a bizzarre team dynamic, Cunego got his Giro. He got 11th in the 2006 Tour (Landis year) and 6th in 2011 (won by Evans), so both not stellar editions.

That Remco couldn't beat Simoni in a gt is frankly laughable. Simoni never did anything at the Tour gc wise, whereas Remco got third in his first attempt behind the two best in the world (don't let this year cloud your judgment, as he clearly had problems, both physically and with the team). His Vuelta win had Roglic, perhaps the best Vuelta rider ever, until he crashed out. He'd give Simoni 3 minutes in a 30 km tt, 5+ in a 50 km one like those of the Tour during the Armstrong era. Climbing wise, Simoni on Saunier-Duval it's true was formidable, but that was the time of Riccò and Piepoli (with incidentally Gianetti as ds) and so stuff reserved for the Clinic discussions. With a year of the chips all falling in the right place, or at least one without major incident, Remco leaves Simoni behind in the mountains too, at least at the Tour.

Yes I’d expect Remco to beat Simoni in the time trials.
Simoni never cared about the tour though really, he was a giro man and was successful and very consistent there.
It might have been all about the tour for the big guns in that era but that’s still true now, I’d still say Remco’s vuelta win is weaker than Cunegos giro.

 

[Karl Merckx]

i'd expect remco to beat simoni in every aspect of cycling outside of italy... the Giro in those years with all those italians lol, they call it Romanticismo....

 

[Berniece]

I’d still say Remco’s vuelta win is weaker than Cunegos giro.

Even if that's the case, it's also obviously clear Evenepoel is the better rider. Maybe just leave it at that.

 

[Charlyghoul]

i'd expect remco to beat simoni in every aspect of cycling outside of italy... the Giro in those years with all those italians lol, they call it Romanticismo....

Simoni 7 podiums 2 wins
Remco DnF DnF

Remco has shown us that he is a supreme time triallist but is very inconsistent outside of that. Is it not fair to say?
I expect he would beat Simoni and the goshawk on the time trials but have a bad day or two in the mountains which would scupper his chances of the maglia Rosa

 

[Berniece]

This thread is evolving, love to see it. Now its Remco vs Cunego? At least more sensible than what Ive seen before. Progress boys, love to see it.

That's a single person making these claims.

 

[Charlyghoul]

To be fair in the Simoni/Cunego years the winners were solid.
The last few years has had some better riders as winners , Roglic and Pog, but also some poor winners, Hart, Hindley.

 

[Charlyghoul]

That's a single person making these claims.

I didn’t claim it, I think Remco can win a giro. He says he wants to be a gt rider, the giro should have been his next major goal imo.

 

[Karl Merckx]

Simoni 7 podiums 2 wins
Remco DnF DnF

Remco has shown us that he is a supreme time triallist but is very inconsistent outside of that. Is it not fair to say?
I expect he would beat Simoni and the goshawk on the time trials but have a bad day or two in the mountains which would scupper his chances of the maglia Rosa

you completely missed my point

 

[Charlyghoul]

you completely missed my point

Beats him outside of Italy ? Mostly yes

 

[Peyroteo94]

Beats him outside of Italy ? Mostly yes

I believe you should contribute more for a healthy forum. Having these opinions (we all know what you are doing) of Cunego being better than Remco doesn't contribute at all. Specially since I think you don't believe in that but (correct me if I'm wrong) it seems taunting. Different opinions are welcome but sometimes, you say ridiculous things and this is not an opinion based on feeling, it's my opinion based on facts.
Remco is 25 and won 2x LBL, Olympic Double, Vuelta, WC RR and many more important races.
If I think Cunego has the best win? Yes, the Giro is the second most important race in the world and he won it with 4 stage wins but that's it.
Cunego won 3 GdL which is impressive but Remco won 2 LBL, 1 ORR and 1 WCRR (and TTs in both events). Remco won a Vuelta and was 3rd in the Tour. There is no doubt Remco is a better GT rider and classics rider than Cunego and he is only 25. For sure he will collect (at least) 2 or 3 major wins in the future (despite I think he will never win a GT again).

Stop bashing this current generation for no reason. What his the point?

 

[AmRacer]

I believe you should contribute more for a healthy forum. Having these opinions (we all know what you are doing) of Cunego being better than Remco doesn't contribute at all. Specially since I think you don't believe in that but (correct me if I'm wrong) it seems taunting. Different opinions are welcome but sometimes, you say ridiculous things and this is not an opinion based on feeling, it's my opinion based on facts.
Remco is 25 and won 2x LBL, Olympic Double, Vuelta, WC RR and many more important races.
If I think Cunego has the best win? Yes, the Giro is the second most important race in the world and he won it with 4 stage wins but that's it.
Cunego won 3 GdL which is impressive but Remco won 2 LBL, 1 ORR and 1 WCRR (and TTs in both events). Remco won a Vuelta and was 3rd in the Tour. There is no doubt Remco is a better GT rider and classics rider than Cunego and he is only 25. For sure he will collect (at least) 2 or 3 major wins in the future (despite I think he will never win a GT again).

Stop bashing this current generation for no reason. What his the point?

Remco is a better GT rider than Froome at 25?

 

[Extinction]

Yes I’d expect Remco to beat Simoni in the time trials.
Simoni never cared about the tour though really, he was a giro man and was successful and very consistent there.
It might have been all about the tour for the big guns in that era but that’s still true now, I’d still say Remco’s vuelta win is weaker than Cunegos giro.

Come on, you can't be serious. If you think the Giro when Cunego won was of the level of Remco's Vuelta, then I've got a lemon to sell you. Simoni concentrated on the Giro because there was no competition and knew he could do nothing at the Tour.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

The comparison between Remcos Vuelta win and Cunegos Giro win is ridiculous because Charygaul are partly unable to see the difference between riders that has finished their career and riders that are still active and because he uses some arguments in favor of Cunego that can equally be used in favor of Remco.

Simoni won the year before and came second the year after.
Garzelli was another giro winner in the top ten.
Honchar 8 time top ten in the giro.

Simoni won the year before and was second the year after, that is correct. But the context of Simoni being Cunegos teammate and that Cunego won the Giro because of a tactical 60 km attack on a medium mountain/hilly stage where the team dynamics came into play both limiting Simoni and killing Popovych and Honchar who rode for very bad teams are missing.

Using Simonis result before and after are no difference from using Roglic in the case of Remco. Roglic won the Vuelta the year before and he won the Giro the year after. Roglic was 1 1/2 minute behind Remco when he had to abandon and the last two mountain stages were very soft.

Then using Honchar as a proof that the level was high, because his “8 too 10” and then in the same way claim that Remco had no serious contenders meaning dismissing of Enric Mas a rider with 8 top 6 in the Vuelta and the TDF, is either dishonest or stupid.

The Giro 2004 had Cioni in 4th. In 19 GTs he was twice top 30, a 4th and a 17th. Bradley McGee was 8th, that’s his only top 80 result in a grand tour.

In 20 years, when we look back at the top 10 of the 2022 Vuelta it’s going to be clear for everyone with open eyes that the quality of the riders in the final top 10 should not be underestimated. Remco, Mas, Ayoso, Lopez, Almeida, Arensman, Rodriguez, O’Connor, Uran and Hindley. Perhaps “only” 2 GT winners, but there is a lot of podiums and every single of these riders have finished high up in the top 10 of Grand Tours.

 

[AmRacer]

The comparison between Remcos Vuelta win and Cunegos Giro win is ridiculous because Charygaul are partly unable to see the difference between riders that has finished their career and riders that are still active and because he uses some arguments in favor of Cunego that can equally be used in favor of Remco.


Simoni won the year before and was second the year after, that is correct. But the context of Simoni being Cunegos teammate and that Cunego won the Giro because of a tactical 60 km attack on a medium mountain/hilly stage where the team dynamics came into play both limiting Simoni and killing Popovych and Honchar who rode for very bad teams are missing.

Using Simonis result before and after are no difference from using Roglic in the case of Remco. Roglic won the Vuelta the year before and he won the Giro the year after. Roglic was 1 1/2 minute behind Remco when he had to abandon and the last two mountain stages were very soft.

Then using Honchar as a proof that the level was high, because his “8 too 10” and then in the same way claim that Remco had no serious contenders meaning dismissing of Enric Mas a rider with 8 top 6 in the Vuelta and the TDF, is either dishonest or stupid.

The Giro 2004 had Cioni in 4th. In 19 GTs he was twice top 30, a 4th and a 17th. Bradley McGee was 8th, that’s his only top 80 result in a grand tour.

In 20 years, when we look back at the top 10 of the 2022 Vuelta it’s going to be clear for everyone with open eyes that the quality of the riders in the final top 10 should not be underestimated. Remco, Mas, Ayoso, Lopez, Almeida, Arensman, Rodriguez, O’Connor, Uran and Hindley. Perhaps “only” 2 GT winners, but there is a lot of podiums and every single of these riders have finished high up in the top 10 of Grand Tours.

It ain't Wright, Rogla crashed out.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Remco is a better GT rider than Froome at 25?

What I said is: Remco at 25 has a better career than Cunego (entire career) already.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Come on, you can't be serious. If you think the Giro when Cunego won was of the level of Remco's Vuelta, then I've got a lemon to sell you. Simoni concentrated on the Giro because there was no competition and knew he could do nothing at the Tour.

What has Remco done at the tour besides a third place which Simoni could have probably got if he trained for it?

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

It ain't Wright, Rogla crashed out.

I literally wrote that Rogla had to abandon, what’s your problem?

 

[Charlyghoul]

The comparison between Remcos Vuelta win and Cunegos Giro win is ridiculous because Charygaul are partly unable to see the difference between riders that has finished their career and riders that are still active and because he uses some arguments in favor of Cunego that can equally be used in favor of Remco.


Simoni won the year before and was second the year after, that is correct. But the context of Simoni being Cunegos teammate and that Cunego won the Giro because of a tactical 60 km attack on a medium mountain/hilly stage where the team dynamics came into play both limiting Simoni and killing Popovych and Honchar who rode for very bad teams are missing.

Using Simonis result before and after are no difference from using Roglic in the case of Remco. Roglic won the Vuelta the year before and he won the Giro the year after. Roglic was 1 1/2 minute behind Remco when he had to abandon and the last two mountain stages were very soft.

Then using Honchar as a proof that the level was high, because his “8 too 10” and then in the same way claim that Remco had no serious contenders meaning dismissing of Enric Mas a rider with 8 top 6 in the Vuelta and the TDF, is either dishonest or stupid.

The Giro 2004 had Cioni in 4th. In 19 GTs he was twice top 30, a 4th and a 17th. Bradley McGee was 8th, that’s his only top 80 result in a grand tour.

In 20 years, when we look back at the top 10 of the 2022 Vuelta it’s going to be clear for everyone with open eyes that the quality of the riders in the final top 10 should not be underestimated. Remco, Mas, Ayoso, Lopez, Almeida, Arensman, Rodriguez, O’Connor, Uran and Hindley. Perhaps “only” 2 GT winners, but there is a lot of podiums and every single of these riders have finished high up in the top 10 of Grand Tours.

I use the facts to state that Cunegos Giro win is not as bad as some say that’s all.
Mas as you say was the best guy Remco beat , but he hasn’t won anything like Simoni or Garzelli.

The fact is Roglic crashed as he often does

 

[Berniece]

The fact is Roglic crashed as he often does

And was dropped multiple times by Evenepoel before Remco crashed.

 

[Extinction]

What has Remco done at the tour besides a third place which Simoni could have probably got if he trained for it?

Simoni had no chance at the Tour, his TT was abhorent, when at the time there were two 50 km tts.

 

[Charlyghoul]

And was dropped multiple times by Evenepoel before Remco crashed.

Still as far as the giro goes it’s Simoni > Roglic.

I’d like to say I never said Cunego was better than Remco, only that he had a better single win, because I think a Giro is behind only the tour in palmares.

 

[AmRacer]

And was dropped multiple times by Evenepoel before Remco crashed.

But Rogla had crashed in previous race too.

 

[AmRacer]

I literally wrote that Rogla had to abandon, what’s your problem?

Problem? I don't have any, do you?

 

[Charlyghoul]

Simoni had no chance at the Tour, his TT was abhorent, when at the time there were two 50 km tts.

But not In last years tour.
Simoni and Cunego knew their level was giro, no shame in it

 

[Extinction]

What has Remco done at the tour besides a third place which Simoni could have probably got if he trained for it?

Simoni hated the Tour, saying in 2004 he never hoped to return, that nobody dared attack Armstrong and that US Postal set the agenda. Not exactly someone who had the legs for the race. There is a reason he never based a season on the Grand Bouclé.