Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

No other rider did what Evenepoel did on stage 4, though. Getting gapped by like 17 seconds on the steep part (that's not being outsprinted, considering the effort was not that short) and then when the climb flattened out he took something like 7 seconds back on the front group all by himself - in full beast mode - without any help from the other riders in his group.

That was Evenepoel in very good shape, IMO. It sure looked like that. His prologue was indicative of that, too. To me it seems likely - not certain - that if he improves he won't all of a sudden turn into a different type of rider.

 

[IndurainsTdF1994]

Hopefully, we're done with all the nauseating Remco hype now... And why couldn't he win a GT eventually? Tao Geoghegan Hart did.

 

[frisenfruitig]

No other rider did what Evenepoel did on stage 4, though. Getting gapped by like 17 seconds on the steep part (that's not being outsprinted, considering the effort was not that short) and then when the climb flattened out he took something like 7 seconds back on the front group all by himself - in full beast mode - without any help from the other riders in his group.

That was Evenepoel in very good shape, IMO. It sure looked like that. His prologue was indicative of that, too. To me it seems likely - not certain - that if he improves he won't all of a sudden turn into a different type of rider.

I mean, so did Yates and other decent climbers. Almeida lost over 4 minutes and you don't see people making ridiculous conclusions based on that. Also I don't see Evenepoel being slower than Almeida in a TT if he is anywhere near his best shape tbh

 

[spalco]

No other rider did what Evenepoel did on stage 4, though. Getting gapped by like 17 seconds on the steep part (that's not being outsprinted, considering the effort was not that short) and then when the climb flattened out he took something like 7 seconds back on the front group all by himself - in full beast mode - without any help from the other riders in his group.

That was Evenepoel in very good shape, IMO. It sure looked like that. His prologue was indicative of that, too. To me it seems likely - not certain - that if he improves he won't all of a sudden turn into a different type of rider.

Yeah, but I guess, but the question is how his preperation hampered his performance.

Maybe someone who knows more about training efforts and the relationship with endurance could make some educated speculation about that. If he had been able to keep that form (or be even stronger with better prep) and limited his losses on Zoncolan etc. he could still be competitive in the GC possibly.

It does look like he's a different kind of rider, than what we've seen in GC winners recently - Pogacar, Roglic, Froome, Bernal, Yates all have a decent amount of explosivity (at least uphill), that Evenepoel lacks. Probably there is some connection with that to the way he's climbing even when he's in top form.

 

[limak_]

Maybe someone who knows more about training efforts and the relationship with endurance could make some educated speculation about that. If he had been able to keep that form (or be even stronger with better prep) and limited his losses on Zoncolan etc. he could still be competitive in the GC possibly.

The truth is, a pro cyclist doesn't really need that much time get back to a decent shape after the break. And we saw that in case of Remco. During the first week he was in a truly great shape. Definitely not his top one, but still very, very solid.
In the last period of his "preparation" he surely did a lot of quality, high-effort training and as they were claiming "numbers were there". And I'm really not doubting that.

But then comes the endurance problem. You think what's the reason for Bernal spending on his bike 5-6 hours, 5x a week, from December to April?
To be competitive throughout the whole 3 weeks, you need a proper amount of base kms in your legs, a really solid build up. And these are really the most basic of training basics in any endurance sport.

Then what happened to Remco's performances during the Giro becomes very easy to explain, without even having very specific and advanced knowledge.

And I don't want to create myslef as an expert in the field of sport performance (definitely I'm not one). Of course I might be wrong about some details but in general, for me this particular case seems to be rather obvious, and understandable.

 

[groogster]

I think two things are important regarding his Giro so far:

* technical ability: This is clearly a weakness, though I think it was exacerbated by his quite horrific accident in Lombardia. We shouldn't forget that he could've ended up dead or in a wheelchair. Everybody then said that it was foolish to try and follow Nibali instead of riding your own pace. The accident and that advice will have made him take the downhills more slowly than he would've done one year ago, of that I am fairly certain. Nevertheless, with training and time, he should be able to fix at least part of this issue. He'll never be a Sagan, but being "OK" is probably enough.

* stamina for a three week race: Given his short preparation, a lack of a deep base (after a normal winter and spring) would always be likely to come and haunt him the further the race progressed. Moreover, I think that the quite challenging weather conditions accelerated the attrition. We can't say for sure that with a normal preparation he would be in the game still, but we definitely cannot extrapolate from his current collapse.

Conclusion: he's still an enormous talent, but we still do not know if he can really challenge for GCs. However, claiming that he'll not be able to challenge GCs based on his showing this Giro, is disingenuous.

spot on! Give the kid time to develop his handling skills and his endurance. Next year we’ll have the right idea about his CG capabilities in a GT.

 

[BigCoward]

That seems way too reasonable, Jagar. I think we can definitely conclude he's never going to be a GT rider based on this Giro, case closed.

Or the greatest cyclist who ever lived. Extremes are all that is allowed. Nuance seems to be a thing for elsewhere.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

[...] Hespel: "Preparation Evenepoel was done in a lab"

Carl Berteele also contacted Peter Hespel, exercise physiologist at KU Leuven. According to Hespel, Evenepoel's preparation was good, but the severe weather conditions also played their part.

"The preparation of Evenepoel actually took place in a kind of lab", says Berteele. "He has prepared for internship and training in Belgium, but that is actually a simulation. Hespel confirmed to me that the training values that Evenepoel had recorded were strong." "He started training again in November or December, but then the pain came and he had to rest again for a few weeks.

Hespel then saw his values in the build-up to the Giro and Hespel said that they are almost phenomenal values. there are tremendous talent and engine saw. " "But then you have to convert those values into the race and in this Giro severe weather conditions play a role.

In interviews after any race, for example, every rider always talks about the wind. We often don't see that on television." "The big question at Evenepoel was in any case how he would recuperate from the efforts, said Hespel. On the first day of rest, a first mask would have fallen off and it turned out that there is still a lot of work to be done." [...]

Google translated

full article:

Berteele: "Als Evenepoel opgeeft, zal hij volgende weken geen goed gevoel hebben" | sporza

"Hoe sterk is de eenzame fietser, die krom gebogen over zijn stuur tegen de wind, zichzelf een weg baant?" Eenzaam is Remco Evenepoel niet in deze Giro. De vraag is wel of het slim is dat hij zich op zijn 21e in zware (weers)omstandigheden nog een weg naar Milaan baant? Carl Berteele belde met...

sporza.be

translated:

https://translate.google.com/transl...e-weken-geen-goed-gevoel-hebben~1622021411499

 

[Pirazziattacks]

spot on! Give the kid time to develop his handling skills and his endurance. Next year we’ll have the right idea about his CG capabilities in a GT.

I don't think we'll necessarily get more of an idea next year, or even in the next 5 years. There are many paths to becoming a GC rider in grand tours and Evenepoel's apparently phenomenal numbers won't necessarily translate into performance when racing on long and/or steep climbs across 3 weeks for some time.

There's still a lot Quickstep needs to find out about Remco's riding style when racing long climbs, multi mountain stages and so on. Assuming Remco doesn't develop more of a kick, he might need a dominant train to stifle the race ala Wiggins (which they can't afford) or even a more affordable Basso level team. Or perhaps he'll be able to manage mostly on his own like Dumoulin did at Sunweb.

 

[Red Rick]

You can get a very decent idea by looking at the mountain stages and GCs in the lesser stage races provided he's in decent form.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Well if I remember correctly he won every stage race he entered and was solid uphill so I don't think that paints the picture you would like to be true

 

[Red Rick]

Well if I remember correctly he won every stage race he entered and was solid uphill so I don't think that paints the picture you would like to be true

You're the one extremely keen to reduce everything to two climbs in Burgos and ignore the other mountain stages where he did distinctively worse than in hills in 2019.

 

[frisenfruitig]

I think you are thinking of a different user, probably Logic. But "distinctly worse" is still a ridiculous statement if you mean he lost a couple of seconds and was still ahead of most of the other "GC contenders".

I don't know why you keep trying to make ridiculous conclusions based on some warm-up stage races (which he easily won). Did he do something to you that you can't get over or something?

I've seen you post some ridiculous stuff the past couple of weeks and when you get called out on it you usually just respond with some troll comment lol

 

[Pinot's goat]

Burgos was first race after lockdown so I don't think it is reliable since many riders were in poor form due to limited training whereas some the of younger riders and especially Evenepoel were already close to top form.

 

[Bonimenier]

You're the one extremely keen to reduce everything to two climbs in Burgos and ignore the other mountain stages where he did distinctively worse than in hills in 2019.

The 'in 2019' is key in your sentence.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Who says he was close to top form? It's not like he peaked for these races, unless you have some source for that?

 

[Red Rick]

The 'in 2019' is key in your sentence.

He's magically gonna be a totally different rider type ofcourse.

But my main point was that we can take races like Dauphine etc like a decent barometer if the courses are sufficiently mountanious rather than overly rely on older races or races without big climbs.

 

[Bonimenier]

He's magically gonna be a totally different rider type ofcourse.

Someone's climbing ability as a neopro at the age of 19 is obviously very representative for his climbing potential. Definitely if these climbing stages came in his first months as a pro.

 

[Red Rick]

Someone's climbing ability as a neopro at the age of 19 is obviously very representative for his climbing potential. Definitely if these climbing stages came in his first months as a pro.

Most 19 year olds don't win San Sebastian. One minute he's a poor 19 year old who's yet to gain 50% power output, the next moment he totally would have won Il Lombardia

 

[frisenfruitig]

Someone's climbing ability as a neopro at the age of 19 is obviously very representative for his climbing potential. Definitely if these climbing stages came in his first months as a pro.

And he wasn't even bad on the stages he is talking about, literally lost a couple of seconds lol. Whilst ignoring the ones where he was strong, very reasonable!

 

[Bonimenier]

Most 19 year olds don't win San Sebastian. One minute he's a poor 19 year old who's yet to gain 50% power output, the next moment he totally would have won Il Lombardia

I believe it's quite clear he made a lot of progression in his first year as a pro. He wouldn't have won San Sebastian if that race was being held in the start of the season. Even you know that.

 

[perico]

Yeah.

One counterpoint though: I think Contador was/is an emotional person also, for whom harmony and friendship in the team was very important. But he was a couple years older than Evenepoel when he really started in the pro peloton and he always had people around him who were very loyal and supportive to him personally.

Contador was 21 when he finished his first GT. That’s the thing. He rode it to learn with no pressure to win anything and finished an anonymous 31st. He was ready to compete the next year (but couldn’t ride due to Puerto situation with his team), and won it 2 years after his debut.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Yeah, but I guess, but the question is how his preperation hampered his performance.

Maybe someone who knows more about training efforts and the relationship with endurance could make some educated speculation about that. If he had been able to keep that form (or be even stronger with better prep) and limited his losses on Zoncolan etc. he could still be competitive in the GC possibly.

It does look like he's a different kind of rider, than what we've seen in GC winners recently - Pogacar, Roglic, Froome, Bernal, Yates all have a decent amount of explosivity (at least uphill), that Evenepoel lacks. Probably there is some connection with that to the way he's climbing even when he's in top form.

How did I get quoted with what 18 Valve said.

 

[Bardamu]

Well this crash surely was avoidable.

 

[Bonimenier]

Well this crash surely was avoidable.

Apparently it wasn't even the crash that really hurt, but Nieve riding into him after he got up.