Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[VayaVayaVaya]

haha!! I totally understand.

time to read up on cycling history pre-1991 then.

corticosteroids, amphetamines and even cyanide were in use but they largely did not alter the natural hierarchy over time.

Based on this criteria and the way the sport has changed, you can really only reference Dumoulin and Roglic as comps. Everyone else either has recent shade (Wiggins, Froome, GT as members of Sky, Contador, Indurain, Armstrong, Ullrich, Pantani) or is more of a climber than a TTer (Pogacar although he’s both, Bernal), or is from an era that was using other illicit substances and existed in a very different cycling world with limited relevance to today (Merckx, Hinault). So I guess that really just leaves Dumoulin. And sort of Roglic?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Velonews reporting that Remco’s last race before recovery and training for Vuelta will be the Belgian TT.
Does that mean he will not be riding the road race?

All Belgian pro riders are obligated to ride the RR unless they have a valid medical reason not to.

Don't think this has anything to do with preparation or weight. A week long race should be no problem for him, even being dropped by vlasov on a HC climb is well acceptable.

I'm sure the watt per kilo equation works out for him at a higher weight. But i'm not so sure he has the energy reserves to drag those extra kilos along constantly and push those bigger watts. It's like putting a bigger engine in a smaller car. The car will be faster, accelerate better, even uphill the extra weight by the bigger engine will not hinder performance because the engine has more horsepower. However it's still a small car with a small gas tank. And the bigger engine burns more gas, so when the tank is empty, it's game over.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

It's easy to forget that pro athletes are also humans. Sometimes you can do everything you believe is correct and still perform far away from your capacity. Being in good form is not exact science and sometimes you miss some percentages without any good explanation.
The TT today was solid, but nothing more. Which to me indicates that the weak performance this week is down to something being off with his form/energy level etc, and not down to (missing) abilities.

 

[hayneplane]

All Belgian pro riders are obligated to ride the RR unless they have a valid medical reason not to.


I'm sure the watt per kilo equation works out for him at a higher weight. But i'm not so sure he has the energy reserves to drag those extra kilos along constantly and push those bigger watts. It's like putting a bigger engine in a smaller car. The car will be faster, accelerate better, even uphill the extra weight by the bigger engine will not hinder performance because the engine has more horsepower. However it's still a small car with a small gas tank. And when the tank is empty, it's game over.

By obligated do you mean they will not be considered for selection for the national team for Worlds/Euros/Olympics that year if they simply choose to skip the nats because the route doesn’t give them a chance.

 

[GuntherL1]

Minutes off his goal in both races (podium).
And no, I'm not a hater.

and only half the peloton finished in TdS

 

[Flurk1982]

Velonews reporting that Remco’s last race before recovery and training for Vuelta will be the Belgian TT.
Does that mean he will not be riding the road race?

He rides the Belgian RR. Before the vuelta he only rides San Sebastian so no Burgos anymore. Apparently they would like him fresh at the start of vuelta.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It's easy to forget that pro athletes are also humans. Sometimes you can do everything you believe is correct and still perform far away from your capacity. Being in good form is not exact science and sometimes you miss some percentages without any good explanation.
The TT today was solid, but nothing more. Which to me indicates that the weak performance this week is down to something being off with his form/energy level etc, and not down to (missing) abilities.

Exactly. The TT was ''fine'' but not like his best TT's (WCC 2019, San Juan 2020, Algarve 2020/2022, ECC2019...) which puts the rest of the week into perspective. His overall form must have been off, confirmed by his statements that he was unable to push his normal watts, which in itself does not have to be a big deal, if not for the fact that they -again- expected his form to be good. After Tirreno, this is the second time they completely fckd it up. It only strengthens my belief the team is clueless. I can understand Valencia and last year's Giro, but imho for Tirreno and Suisse there is no excuse. They prepped him to be good there, he wasn't. If they didn't think he'd be good they should either not have sent him, or have sent him with a different battle plan. Yet they didn't so they are simply winging it. You don't send him to Tirreno to face Pogacar when you can reasonably expect he will not be anywhere near ready.

Could it be he was overtrained? Does he have a bug? Was it the heat? He usually doesn't suffer that much in the heat, maybe in combination with humidity? You'd think the team is aware of those dangers. It doesn't instil me with lots of confidence in his team management/trainers. From 12 months ago, now suddenly his GT weight is 3kg more (that's a massive difference) without any real explanation other than ''be became more of a man during winter''. Another indication they seem to be experimenting more than anything else.

 

[Riek s]

Velonews reporting that Remco’s last race before recovery and training for Vuelta will be the Belgian TT.
Does that mean he will not be riding the road race?

He will ride the RR, indicated it will be a hard race since they don't have a finisher in the team and that they will need to attack continously and hope for the best.
(he wished Fabio was born a 100km lower).


We can say and indicate his form was off , but that wasn't the case a week before and that part doesn't make sense to me. Must have been the heat getting to him more then he thinks. (or still that he was/is ill without knowing it).
Would love to see some insider power results of the climbs or last TT to know where exactly he is vs normally expected (excluding weather impact))

 

[Red Rick]

It's not like they never had any climber who could do well in stage races. They had Mas, they had Almeida, they had Dan Martin, and these guys had no specific issues.

For Suisse overheating and recovering from that explains quite a bit. For other stage races you maybe start looking at recovery issues, which may be from not being rested enough, and not managing form very well.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It's not like they never had any climber who could do well in stage races. They had Mas, they had Almeida, they had Dan Martin, and these guys had no specific issues.

For Suisse overheating and recovering from that explains quite a bit. For other stage races you maybe start looking at recovery issues, which may be from not being rested enough, and not managing form very well.

Mas and Martin are completely different riders, taller and skinnier by nature. Martin at the time was already an experienced rider. Only Almeida could be seen as somewhat from the same mould.

 

[Tonton]

It's easy to forget that pro athletes are also humans.

While I agree with your post, I also believe that Remco tends to forget that he's human. Remco is super entertaining, his wins are epic, but he needs to better manage his energy reserves. Even Merck didn't try to win every single race, every single stage, every single day.

 

[rghysens]

Mas and Martin are completely different riders, taller and skinnier by nature. Martin at the time was already an experienced rider. Only Almeida could be seen as somewhat from the same mould.

Uran?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Uran?

He was also much older when he went to QS and an established GT rider.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

They prepped him to be good there, he wasn't. If they didn't think he'd be good they should either not have sent him, or have sent him with a different battle plan.

Here you kind of talk like Remco is a machine and it's simple to know exactly how good he is at any given moment. A small dip in performance level is not always easy to see in training before a race.

You don't send him to Tirreno to face Pogacar when you can reasonably expect he will not be anywhere near ready.

It would be stupid to believe Remco was not ready to compete in Tirreno after his performances in Algarve two weeks before. If you can't compete in big races because you are afraid you will get dropped, you will never be good enough. I don't understand the fear of not winning every race that it seems some people have regarding Remco.

 

[Red Rick]

Mas and Martin are completely different riders, taller and skinnier by nature. Martin at the time was already an experienced rider. Only Almeida could be seen as somewhat from the same mould.

If it's down to body type it might as well be a problem that's not solvable and then it's just a limitation of his build and physiology

 

[CyclistAbi]

Read he won final ITT at TdS. Congrats!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Here you kind of talk like Remco is a machine and it's simple to know exactly how good he is at any given moment. A small dip in performance level is not always easy to see in training before a race.

It would be stupid to believe Remco was not ready to compete in Tirreno after his performances in Algarve two weeks before. If you can't compete in big races because you are afraid you will get dropped, you will never be good enough. I don't understand the fear of not winning every race that it seems some people have regarding Remco.

He's not a machine, sure. And you can't exactly predict exactly how you will perform every time. But this season they seem to have made a sport out of misjudging his form. Algarve was not a benchmark for Tirreno. Given that he actually went there to try and rival Pogacar, shows they clearly had no idea.

If it's down to body type it might as well be a problem that's not solvable and then it's just a limitation of his build and physiology

When you get outclimbed by fking Küng a week after dropping Chaves, Johannessen, Plapp and Vine, the problem is not his build or physiology. It's a problem of energy management or overtraining, or something. In 2020 he won Burgos and Poland, with only 4 days in between and a hard stage in each race. Both races were stacked with high profile rivals. He won both in dominating fashion, no issues with recovery etc, especially not considering his huge solo at the end of Poland. So i find it hard to believe that a guy who could do well in both mountain stages in Burgos and go on to win Poland in that fashion just a few days later, would have a physiology issue or lacks recovery. I also find it difficult to believe that a rider who excels in long solo's and long TT's, with a relative low weight and high w/kg ratio, would somehow be unable to translate all that into a performance to AT LEAST drop a rider like Küng and finish closer to the podium in TdS, unless something is really wrong.

 

[houtdffan]

don't like the team criticism from Remco

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/remco-evenepoel-draws-vuelta-a-espana-lessons-from-tour-de-suisse-debut/

I learned a lot this week, including on the stage where I lost two minutes. That was really a complete off day for me, physically but also tactically,” Evenepoel said. “As a team, we just didn’t have the ‘balls,’ if I can say it like this, to take the responsibility to take the race in our hands and just give the maximum to win or even just to stay up there with the big guns

 

[Big Doopie]

He’s already raced 40 days this season. Seems like a huge amount.

After the Olympics they said that long periods of training without racing were not good for him.

Now they say he responded almost too well to high altitude training but that he is strangely tired after 40 days of racing in the spring.

when he won his very first race this season -- first stage of Valenciana, one of the QS managers said that a rider like Remco can win when at 70-80% or something like that. then T-A happened and it was like "oh".

sounds like they do not have a clue.

i agree with @Tonton, he is so conditioned from Juniors and 2020 to win at will and QS is not restraining that, that they are together somewhat underestimating how good the top riders are. though he is so damn exciting to watch i hate that these words are actually coming out of my mouth: he needs to manage his efforts more. in a way, i think that is why I wouldn't mind it if he finds out GTs are not his future. imagine what treats we could be in for if he were capable of LBL performances each time he lined up for an important one-day race...

 

[rm2021]

don't like the team criticism from Remco

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/remco-evenepoel-draws-vuelta-a-espana-lessons-from-tour-de-suisse-debut/

I learned a lot this week, including on the stage where I lost two minutes. That was really a complete off day for me, physically but also tactically,” Evenepoel said. “As a team, we just didn’t have the ‘balls,’ if I can say it like this, to take the responsibility to take the race in our hands and just give the maximum to win or even just to stay up there with the big guns

He's got a big mouth.

 

[Unchained]

Read he won final ITT at TdS. Congrats!

This is a gut check..he had a couple of days of crappy climbing and he brushes it off to drill it on the time trial. His issue may become in the short term of direction..he is not able to put it all together for longer stage races, but my money is on him for any and all 1 day events..there are some great all-arounders..he is awesome..his Suisse TT showing was impressive

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

don't like the team criticism from Remco

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/remco-evenepoel-draws-vuelta-a-espana-lessons-from-tour-de-suisse-debut/

I learned a lot this week, including on the stage where I lost two minutes. That was really a complete off day for me, physically but also tactically,” Evenepoel said. “As a team, we just didn’t have the ‘balls,’ if I can say it like this, to take the responsibility to take the race in our hands and just give the maximum to win or even just to stay up there with the big guns

He's got a point though. I'm not saying it would have been any better. Possibly it might have been even (far) worse, but what if he did attack in those first 4 stages instead of ''save himself for the climbs''? He might have distanced some guys enough to be able to ride more defensively in the later stages. What if he went with Fuglsang and Vlasov in stage one instead of hold back twice? But i'm not sure if he's talking specifically about stage 5, where he tanked. I don't know how a different approach to that stage would have ended in any other way.

Anyway, just like with his weight, where they have made a complete 180 since last year they are now stating the polar opposite in terms of preparing a GT. After the Giro they had come to the conclusion that he needed more racing in his legs before going to the Giro. Now a year later, he needs as few races as possible to start fresh going into the Vuelta. That means either they have no idea what they are doing, or they still let him decide what he thinks is best for him which is just as bad. But just like his results, their approach is all over the place. Making stuff up as they go along.

 

[steffr222]

Finally bring him to a proper GT team. Just imagine him beeing in this year‘s BORA squad. Or INEOS. They both know what do to. QS apparently doesn‘t have a single clue I‘m afraid.

 

[Nick2413]

He's got a point though. I'm not saying it would have been any better. Possibly it might have been even (far) worse, but what if he did attack in those first 4 stages instead of ''save himself for the climbs''? He might have distanced some guys enough to be able to ride more defensively in the later stages. What if he went with Fuglsang and Vlasov in stage one instead of hold back twice? But i'm not sure if he's talking specifically about stage 5, where he tanked. I don't know how a different approach to that stage would have ended in any other way.

Anyway, just like with his weight, where they have made a complete 180 since last year they are now stating the polar opposite in terms of preparing a GT. After the Giro they had come to the conclusion that he needed more racing in his legs before going to the Giro. Now a year later, he needs as few races as possible to start fresh going into the Vuelta. That means either they have no idea what they are doing, or they still let him decide what he thinks is best for him which is just as bad. But just like his results, their approach is all over the place. Making stuff up as they go along.

Maybe they’ll get the formula right at some point or maybe he’s not as naturally consistent as some of the other top riders in WT events. He’s still young and still hasn’t had much time back after his injury so hard to draw conclusions but his results seem to be a bit more unpredictable than other riders of his caliber.

 

[houtdffan]

He's got a point though. I'm not saying it would have been any better. Possibly it might have been even (far) worse, but what if he did attack in those first 4 stages instead of ''save himself for the climbs''? He might have distanced some guys enough to be able to ride more defensively in the later stages. What if he went with Fuglsang and Vlasov in stage one instead of hold back twice? But i'm not sure if he's talking specifically about stage 5, where he tanked. I don't know how a different approach to that stage would have ended in any other way.

Anyway, just like with his weight, where they have made a complete 180 since last year they are now stating the polar opposite in terms of preparing a GT. After the Giro they had come to the conclusion that he needed more racing in his legs before going to the Giro. Now a year later, he needs as few races as possible to start fresh going into the Vuelta. That means either they have no idea what they are doing, or they still let him decide what he thinks is best for him which is just as bad. But just like his results, their approach is all over the place. Making stuff up as they go along.

It was stage 5 he was talking about.

But yes, he should have taken the time on stage 1 when he was given a golden opportunity to take time. That should be the big lesson. Always take time when given the opportunity