Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Unchained]

Read he won final ITT at TdS. Congrats!

This is a gut check..he had a couple of days of crappy climbing and he brushes it off to drill it on the time trial. His issue may become in the short term of direction..he is not able to put it all together for longer stage races, but my money is on him for any and all 1 day events..there are some great all-arounders..he is awesome..his Suisse TT showing was impressive

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

don't like the team criticism from Remco

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/remco-evenepoel-draws-vuelta-a-espana-lessons-from-tour-de-suisse-debut/

I learned a lot this week, including on the stage where I lost two minutes. That was really a complete off day for me, physically but also tactically,” Evenepoel said. “As a team, we just didn’t have the ‘balls,’ if I can say it like this, to take the responsibility to take the race in our hands and just give the maximum to win or even just to stay up there with the big guns

He's got a point though. I'm not saying it would have been any better. Possibly it might have been even (far) worse, but what if he did attack in those first 4 stages instead of ''save himself for the climbs''? He might have distanced some guys enough to be able to ride more defensively in the later stages. What if he went with Fuglsang and Vlasov in stage one instead of hold back twice? But i'm not sure if he's talking specifically about stage 5, where he tanked. I don't know how a different approach to that stage would have ended in any other way.

Anyway, just like with his weight, where they have made a complete 180 since last year they are now stating the polar opposite in terms of preparing a GT. After the Giro they had come to the conclusion that he needed more racing in his legs before going to the Giro. Now a year later, he needs as few races as possible to start fresh going into the Vuelta. That means either they have no idea what they are doing, or they still let him decide what he thinks is best for him which is just as bad. But just like his results, their approach is all over the place. Making stuff up as they go along.

 

[steffr222]

Finally bring him to a proper GT team. Just imagine him beeing in this year‘s BORA squad. Or INEOS. They both know what do to. QS apparently doesn‘t have a single clue I‘m afraid.

 

[Nick2413]

He's got a point though. I'm not saying it would have been any better. Possibly it might have been even (far) worse, but what if he did attack in those first 4 stages instead of ''save himself for the climbs''? He might have distanced some guys enough to be able to ride more defensively in the later stages. What if he went with Fuglsang and Vlasov in stage one instead of hold back twice? But i'm not sure if he's talking specifically about stage 5, where he tanked. I don't know how a different approach to that stage would have ended in any other way.

Anyway, just like with his weight, where they have made a complete 180 since last year they are now stating the polar opposite in terms of preparing a GT. After the Giro they had come to the conclusion that he needed more racing in his legs before going to the Giro. Now a year later, he needs as few races as possible to start fresh going into the Vuelta. That means either they have no idea what they are doing, or they still let him decide what he thinks is best for him which is just as bad. But just like his results, their approach is all over the place. Making stuff up as they go along.

Maybe they’ll get the formula right at some point or maybe he’s not as naturally consistent as some of the other top riders in WT events. He’s still young and still hasn’t had much time back after his injury so hard to draw conclusions but his results seem to be a bit more unpredictable than other riders of his caliber.

 

[houtdffan]

He's got a point though. I'm not saying it would have been any better. Possibly it might have been even (far) worse, but what if he did attack in those first 4 stages instead of ''save himself for the climbs''? He might have distanced some guys enough to be able to ride more defensively in the later stages. What if he went with Fuglsang and Vlasov in stage one instead of hold back twice? But i'm not sure if he's talking specifically about stage 5, where he tanked. I don't know how a different approach to that stage would have ended in any other way.

Anyway, just like with his weight, where they have made a complete 180 since last year they are now stating the polar opposite in terms of preparing a GT. After the Giro they had come to the conclusion that he needed more racing in his legs before going to the Giro. Now a year later, he needs as few races as possible to start fresh going into the Vuelta. That means either they have no idea what they are doing, or they still let him decide what he thinks is best for him which is just as bad. But just like his results, their approach is all over the place. Making stuff up as they go along.

It was stage 5 he was talking about.

But yes, he should have taken the time on stage 1 when he was given a golden opportunity to take time. That should be the big lesson. Always take time when given the opportunity

 

[Ripper]

It's easy to forget that pro athletes are also humans. Sometimes you can do everything you believe is correct and still perform far away from your capacity. Being in good form is not exact science and sometimes you miss some percentages without any good explanation.
The TT today was solid, but nothing more. Which to me indicates that the weak performance this week is down to something being off with his form/energy level etc, and not down to (missing) abilities.

He is also newer at this sport, which can result in issues related to consistency at first.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He is also newer at this sport, which can result in issues related to consistency at first.

There were almost no issues in that regard before his crash. Those only started taking form after his comeback.

 

[houtdffan]

To put Remco in perspective, when Contador was his age, he was being dropped by 10 minutes in the mountains. Remco is being dropped by 1-2 minutes

 

[ppanther92]

This is a gut check..he had a couple of days of crappy climbing and he brushes it off to drill it on the time trial. His issue may become in the short term of direction..he is not able to put it all together for longer stage races, but my money is on him for any and all 1 day events..there are some great all-arounders..he is awesome..his Suisse TT showing was impressive

Or... he can't just climb that well. Exciting one-day racer, very strong ITTer but no GT winning material. Might turn out to be very wrong but so far it looks like this (at least to me).

 

[ppanther92]

To put Remco in perspective, when Contador was his age, he was being dropped by 10 minutes in the mountains. Remco is being dropped by 1-2 minutes

Well, yes. But Contador overall had not nearly the level of Evenepoel at this age. So its quite strange to pick the climbing. Could also say, Contador lost minutes in hilly one day races that Evenepoel is already winning.

And at the same time, you can take Schleck and Pogacar, already having GT GC success at the same age.

In the end thats quite irrelevant. Why I personally think he might not turn out to be one of the best GT riders is that he is already one of the absolutely strongest in one day races and ITTs but quity far off in climbing.

 

[CyclistAbi]

This is a gut check..he had a couple of days of crappy climbing and he brushes it off to drill it on the time trial. His issue may become in the short term of direction..he is not able to put it all together for longer stage races, but my money is on him for any and all 1 day events..there are some great all-arounders..he is awesome..his Suisse TT showing was impressive

I feel that too much pressure is put on him too soon. He still has a couple of years to figure it out and if that happens a couple of years more on the highest level.

 

[search]

don't like the team criticism from Remco

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/remco-evenepoel-draws-vuelta-a-espana-lessons-from-tour-de-suisse-debut/

I learned a lot this week, including on the stage where I lost two minutes. That was really a complete off day for me, physically but also tactically,” Evenepoel said. “As a team, we just didn’t have the ‘balls,’ if I can say it like this, to take the responsibility to take the race in our hands and just give the maximum to win or even just to stay up there with the big guns

it sounds a bit different in Belgian press today:

"I'm mainly refering to Thursday's stage, where I lost 2 minutes although an Ardennes-type parcours normally should have suited me. But I was way too relaxed. I thought the favourites would keep things together, and a Matthews-type of rider would win the stage. If I or the team would have approached it with more balls and taken the initiative, there's no way I would have lost 2 minutes. Physically and mentally we have messed it up. A total offday.

In that way I still differ compared to a rider like Geraint Thomas. He always races aggressively and alert, while I wasn't even prepared for the heat that day. I had the wrong helmet - you could fry an egg on it in the end. I didn't have any ice either, because I thought it wasn't necessary. Fortunately I'm learning quickly, and I'm not going to make that mistake again."

But well, not ideal indeed of course, and details like this can make a difference - but not if you get dropped on every climb anyway, and tbh by 2nd or 3rd class of GC riders. Not sure he has realized that.

edit: no Burgos for him anymore, btw: "At this level you have to save as much energy as possible. [...] That is why I go for Vuelta for a different approach. After my offday Thursday we immediately decided that I will take the Tour of Burgos off my schedule. I want to be as fresh as possible for the Vuelta"

 

[spalco]

Finally bring him to a proper GT team. Just imagine him beeing in this year‘s BORA squad. Or INEOS. They both know what do to. QS apparently doesn‘t have a single clue I‘m afraid.

I've thought for a long time he needs to leave Belgium. It's not so much Quickstep's fault, they are trying, but signing for them was a big mistake because it meant he got credit for being a great cyclist before he earned it on the road himself. When I see him in an interview, he still looks like a child to me. Pogacar is boyish too, but seems much more mature.

I'm still 99% convinced Remco is a future GT winner, but maybe not before he's 25/26 or so.

 

[frisenfruitig]

He managed to drop guys like Chavez, Geoghegan Hart and Johannessen in Norway rather easily and they all finished in the top 10 in the Dauphiné so he certainly could have done better in Suisse. Obviously that's still a far cry from being up there with Pogacar, Roglic etc but I understand why he had high expectations for the TDS.

I also don't know if Quickstep is the right team for him, probably teams like JV or Ineos are better suited for a perfect preparation to do a GT. Kinda seems like Quickstep are just throwing *** on the wall to see what sticks whereas with JV or Ineos know perfecty well what they have to do to prepare their team.

 

[hayneplane]

don't like the team criticism from Remco

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/remco-evenepoel-draws-vuelta-a-espana-lessons-from-tour-de-suisse-debut/

I learned a lot this week, including on the stage where I lost two minutes. That was really a complete off day for me, physically but also tactically,” Evenepoel said. “As a team, we just didn’t have the ‘balls,’ if I can say it like this, to take the responsibility to take the race in our hands and just give the maximum to win or even just to stay up there with the big guns

That's a weird quote unless something has been lost in translation. Theoretically he had a reasonable climbing team around him for this race (within the obvious limitation of the teams overall roster). He earlier admitted he misremembered the final kms of the hilly stage where he lost the most time so the team should have been on him on the radio to give information but beyond that I don't see what else they might have done.

If he wants to be the best he can be as a stage racer he really should look to go to INEOS as they are far better at developing riders for multi day races and instilling recovery and energy management.

 

[Big Doopie]

it sounds a bit different in Belgian press today:

In that way I still differ compared to a rider like Geraint Thomas. He always races aggressively and alert, while I wasn't even prepared for the heat that day. I had the wrong helmet - you could fry an egg on it in the end. I didn't have any ice either, because I thought it wasn't necessary. Fortunately I'm learning quickly, and I'm not going to make that mistake again."

bingo.

i literally just posted that QS doesn’t seem to prep properly for the longhaul of GC where one off day can cost u the whole thing. rarely see him getting roadside replenishments like other teams. Wrong helmet, no ice, in that heat, just dumb and unprepared.

 

[roundabout]

bingo.

i literally just posted that QS doesn’t seem to prep properly for the longhaul of GC where one off day can cost u the whole thing. rarely see him getting roadside replenishments like other teams. Wrong helmet, no ice, in that heat, just dumb and unprepared.

Was it the team that prevented him from choosing a different helmet and taking ice during the race or was it his choice?

At least with the helmet I kind of doubt that the team car would have said no, if he wanted to change it to one with vents during the race.

Edit: and if I remember correctly, Evenepoel was the only QS rider in an aero helmet at least in the part of the stage covered on TV

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

it sounds a bit different in Belgian press today:

"I'm mainly refering to Thursday's stage, where I lost 2 minutes although an Ardennes-type parcours normally should have suited me. But I was way too relaxed. I thought the favourites would keep things together, and a Matthews-type of rider would win the stage. If I or the team would have approached it with more balls and taken the initiative, there's no way I would have lost 2 minutes. Physically and mentally we have messed it up. A total offday.

In that way I still differ compared to a rider like Geraint Thomas. He always races aggressively and alert, while I wasn't even prepared for the heat that day. I had the wrong helmet - you could fry an egg on it in the end. I didn't have any ice either, because I thought it wasn't necessary. Fortunately I'm learning quickly, and I'm not going to make that mistake again."

But well, not ideal indeed of course, and details like this can make a difference - but not if you get dropped on every climb anyway, and tbh by 2nd or 3rd class of GC riders. Not sure he has realized that.

edit: no Burgos for him anymore, btw: "At this level you have to save as much energy as possible. [...] That is why I go for Vuelta for a different approach. After my offday Thursday we immediately decided that I will take the Tour of Burgos off my schedule. I want to be as fresh as possible for the Vuelta"

In this article he also says what i had heard and posted before: he was tired after Norway.
He goes on to say that he raced Gullegem at the team's request. But he made the mistake to ride it like a 180km TT, says he was pushing very high watts all through the race.

He got Van Wilder and Masnada with him, both great riders, but both having finished very few race days and coming back after recovery. This was their first race back.

As for your point about his climbing... To me his climbing was not good enough because he was not good enough this week. Just like in Tirreno when he got dropped art basically the start of the first climb by a peloton of 40 guys. That's just not merely a problem of not being able to climb, that means something else is up. Especially when you have instance like in Norway, Burgos or even Giro where he proved he really can do much better.

Was it the team that prevented him from choosing a different helmet and taking ice during the race or was it his choice?

At least with the helmet I kind of doubt that the team car would have said no, if he wanted to change it to one with vents during the race.

Sure. But let's say he has the mental capacity of a 3 year old. Why does nobody tell him to take another helmet? Or bring ice? In this case i don't think he has the mental capacity of a 3 year old, but simply lacks experience.

Imho these are things that prove he missed a lot by not racing before the juniors and skipping the U23. Van Wilder was wearing the correct helmet all week.

 

[AlfaLum]

Does all of it matter that much? Until Remco proves he can compete with the best in real WT stage races with hard mountains the question of form does not seem the most important.

We have seen him getting beaten in Valenciana, Tirreno, Basque Country and now Suisse when it got hard. So for now the only real conclusion is that he is a bit short of the actual contenders for these races. Even when half of the peloton had to drop out of the race.

The only real surprise this week was him loosing so much time on stage 5. That is actually a stage with a profile where he has proven himself to be world class before.

 

[Big Doopie]

Was it the team that prevented him from choosing a different helmet and taking ice during the race or was it his choice?

At least with the helmet I kind of doubt that the team car would have said no, if he wanted to change it to one with vents during the race.

Edit: and if I remember correctly, Evenepoel was the only QS rider in an aero helmet at least in the part of the stage covered on TV

no. Absolutely. He, too, is to blame.

But can u imagine this happening at Ineos?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Does all of it matter that much? Until Remco proves he can compete with the best in real WT stage races with hard mountains the question of form does not seem the most important.

We have seen him getting beaten in Valenciana, Tirreno, Basque Country and now Suisse when it got hard. So for now the only real conclusion is that he is a bit short of the actual contenders for these races. Even when half of the peloton had to drop out of the race.

The only real surprise this week was him loosing so much time on stage 5. That is actually a stage with a profile where he has proven himself to be world class before.

Amazing how you raise the right question just to ignore the obvious answer.

Including Itzulia is you being you. He never lost more than 20 seconds on any of the climbs until the final MTF the last day. The reason why he lost roughly half a minute was because they ganged up on him after the penultimate climb and he had to fight to get back. His climbing was not really an issue. He was 4th in GC ahead of a some big names and few seconds off the podium.

 

[DoYouEvenRideBruh]

There were almost no issues in that regard before his crash. Those only started taking form after his comeback.

Do you think the crash is still affecting him somehow? After all these months that seems a bit of a stretch to me, especially considering how AFAIK nobody, team doctors or otherwise, has ever really talked about such longterm issues related to his injuries. It might also be due to a case of small sample size of races from before the incident; he also wasn't attempting GTs and Monuments back then (well, except for that fateful Lombardia itself), or as many WT races (as far as I remember, I don't follow his career as closely as most on this thread).

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Do you think the crash is still affecting him somehow? After all these months that seems a bit of a stretch to me, especially considering how AFAIK nobody, team doctors or otherwise, has ever really talked about such longterm issues related to his injuries. It might also be due to a case of small sample size of races from before the incident; he also wasn't attempting GTs and Monuments back then (well, except for that fateful Lombardia itself), or as many WT races (as far as I remember, I don't follow his career as closely as most on this thread).

I can't say. At this moment i'm leaning more towards mismanaged. But there have been riders who never got back to their level after a big crash. So maybe we shouldn't rule it out. He's still had great days, just like before the crash. But he has never been as consistent since.

I'm just a bit baffled by how the team is handling certain things. They shouldn't have sent him to Tirreno to ride for GC, just to try get a stage and sharpen his form. He wasn't ready, he was too heavy, he hadn't trained on long climbs... then why on earth are you sending him to go for GC? They send him to Gullegem, a meaningless race, just to please a friendly contact of Lefevere. Turns out he overexerts himself there. They ignore him being somewhat tired after Norway. They don't coach him with the heat in Suisse. Before the crash in his first year and a half, they did a methodical build up. Since his crash that is far from the case.

 

[Red Rick]

I can't say. At this moment i'm leaning more towards mismanaged. But there have been riders who never got back to their level after a big crash. So maybe we shouldn't rule it out. He's still had great days, just like before the crash. But he has never been as consistent since.

I'm just a bit baffled by how the team is handling certain things. They shouldn't have sent him to Tirreno to ride for GC, just to try get a stage and sharpen his form. He wasn't ready, he was too heavy, he hadn't trained on long climbs... then why on earth are you sending him to go for GC? They send him to Gullegem, a meaningless race, just to please a friendly contact of Lefevere. Turns out he overexerts himself there. They ignore him being somewhat tired after Norway. They don't coach him with the heat in Suisse. Before the crash in his first year and a half, they did a methodical build up. Since his crash that is far from the case.

It could be he trains a little too hard leading up to stage races and lacks freshness for longer, harder, consecutive days.

Lets say he peaked for Liege. How much rest did he have between Liege amd Suisse?

 

[houtdffan]

it sounds a bit different in Belgian press today:

"I'm mainly refering to Thursday's stage, where I lost 2 minutes although an Ardennes-type parcours normally should have suited me. But I was way too relaxed. I thought the favourites would keep things together, and a Matthews-type of rider would win the stage. If I or the team would have approached it with more balls and taken the initiative, there's no way I would have lost 2 minutes. Physically and mentally we have messed it up. A total offday.

In that way I still differ compared to a rider like Geraint Thomas. He always races aggressively and alert, while I wasn't even prepared for the heat that day. I had the wrong helmet - you could fry an egg on it in the end. I didn't have any ice either, because I thought it wasn't necessary. Fortunately I'm learning quickly, and I'm not going to make that mistake again."

But well, not ideal indeed of course, and details like this can make a difference - but not if you get dropped on every climb anyway, and tbh by 2nd or 3rd class of GC riders. Not sure he has realized that.

edit: no Burgos for him anymore, btw: "At this level you have to save as much energy as possible. [...] That is why I go for Vuelta for a different approach. After my offday Thursday we immediately decided that I will take the Tour of Burgos off my schedule. I want to be as fresh as possible for the Vuelta"

Well, his dumb choice of equipment may be why he was dropped. He literally was being cooked alive due to the wrong helmet and no ice