Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Not like Quick Step looks stronger than Ineos and Jumbo in this discipline.

I think there are more weak links in those teams. And as i already mentioned, at QSA the weakest links are expendable. They don't have to wait for Devenyns or Vervaeke. At Ineos they do have to wait for their weakest links, since those are their GC guys.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559190862910918657

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/BenjiNaesen/status/1559190862910918657

This thread in a nutshell, and a rare occurrence that Lefebrve says something reasonable in one article.

 

[Red Rick]

It is indeed the strawman that's happeend many dozens of times in this thread.

 

[Oldermanish]

I think there are more weak links in those teams. And as i already mentioned, at QSA the weakest links are expendable. They don't have to wait for Devenyns or Vervaeke. At Ineos they do have to wait for their weakest links, since those are their GC guys.

JV must have a high level of confidence in Primoz's form to include him. If he can't hang on, though they'll drop him IMO. He may be "healed" enough to start but that much time off serious training presents an unknown and he may be a training domestique by the first mountain stage.
Carapaz, on the other hand: he's a hard dude when he's on form and manages well without help in the mountainous stage. At this point he may be the real Dark Horse.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

JV must have a high level of confidence in Primoz's form to include him. If he can't hang on, though they'll drop him IMO. He may be "healed" enough to start but that much time off serious training presents an unknown and he may be a training domestique by the first mountain stage.
Carapaz, on the other hand: he's a hard dude when he's on form and manages well without help in the mountainous stage. At this point he may be the real Dark Horse.

We were discussing the TTT specifically. Carapaz lost over a minute in 12k just two weeks ago. As for Jumbo, i can't see them taking him if he is that bad that he would be worse in the TTT than Kuss or Oomen. So even if he isn't in top shape, he will be one of the better TT'ers on that team.

 

[memyselfandI]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559190862910918657

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/BenjiNaesen/status/1559190862910918657

This thread in a nutshell, and a rare occurrence that Lefebrve says something reasonable in one article.

+1

Very surprised to read this as the roadmap for RE is now very good and clean from teams direction. It needs just that small nod towards GC oriented team with high mountain domestique part sorted out well enough and it's quicky JV/Sky level at hand. It's getting very interesting.

 

[Oldermanish]

We were discussing the TTT specifically. Carapaz lost over a minute in 12k just two weeks ago. As for Jumbo, i can't see them taking him if he is that bad that he would be worse in the TTT than Kuss or Oomen. So even if he isn't in top shape, he will be one of the better TT'ers on that team.

I understand the TTT topic and was expanding on it as a long term strategy. At average, Primoz should be able to limp through a TTT if it isn't technical. If JV wants time and he can't seriously contribute he may get dropped just on lack of top end pacing rather than ride to keep him on.
Carapaz may have lost time in a 12k TT; which is largely a glorified pursuit distance favoring sprinter types. He's hard to drop and a TTT is something he'd get through. He also knows the Vuelta as well as anyone racing it so the long view makes him a Player.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Looks like Remco made Patrick a better and more empathetic person.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Looks like Remco made Patrick a better and more empathetic person.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, now.

 

[spalco]

Doubt it, him winning would end the main debate in this thread.

Nah, the discussion would shift to "yeah, he won the Vuelta, but the Tour is a different beast, and he hasn't shown himself against Pogacar/Vingegaard/etc yet".

 

[tobydawq]

a Jean Marie LaBlanc 70km TTT special would have probably sewed up the GC for Remco

Instead, Guillen went full Govenou with an ultra short TTT. Even Pescheux was better than this

Are we seriosly complaining that a TTT is too short and will not decide a Grand Tour on its own??

 

[houtdffan]

Are we seriosly complaining that a TTT is too short and will not decide a Grand Tour on its own??

Yes, the TTT is too short

A long TTT forces the teams to decide if they bring TT specialists and leave the flyweight climbers at home, or do they go for climbing support and risk ceding big time in the TTT.

Eliminating this dilemma simply produces the youtube cycling we saw last decade where only short climbing bursts matter to win a GT

 

[tobydawq]

Yes, the TTT is too short

A long TTT forces the teams to decide if they bring TT specialists and leave the flyweight climbers at home, or do they go for climbing support and risk ceding big time in the TTT.

Eliminating this dilemma simply produces the youtube cycling we saw last decade where only short climbing bursts matter to win a GT

Yeah, because that was the TTT's fault and not because every mountain stage must finish with stretches of 50% or something like that.

 

[yaco]

Yes, the TTT is too short

A long TTT forces the teams to decide if they bring TT specialists and leave the flyweight climbers at home, or do they go for climbing support and risk ceding big time in the TTT.

Eliminating this dilemma simply produces the youtube cycling we saw last decade where only short climbing bursts matter to win a GT

BEX fits your criteria - They've gone for ITT guys in their team.

 

[KZD]

BEX fits your criteria - They've gone for ITT guys in their team.

More than ITT guys they have gone for team pursuit guys so they should do really well next friday.

 

[YavorD]

Yes, the TTT is too short

A long TTT forces the teams to decide if they bring TT specialists and leave the flyweight climbers at home, or do they go for climbing support and risk ceding big time in the TTT.

Eliminating this dilemma simply produces the youtube cycling we saw last decade where only short climbing bursts matter to win a GT

Care to remind me when was the last time a TTT made the race better?
Or more TTT miles would make it for a better racing?
ITT is good and often a must, but not the TTT.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Care to remind me when was the last time a TTT made the race better?
Or more TTT miles would make it for a better racing?
ITT is good and often a must, but not the TTT.

It's a great discipline, i love watching it, but it should not affect GC since it will generally favor rich teams and squash any chances of outsiders taking the win or even podium in a GT GC. Maybe they could do with boni seconds instead of actual time gaps, with a 5s gap between spots. Team finishing first gets added 0s to overall time. Team in second gets added +5s to overall time... etc. There could still be 50s between spot 1 and 10, but if you are even remotely serious about going for GC, you could limit your losses, and you are sure not to lose 8 minutes in GC.

That said, there should simply be more ITT kilometers in a GT. There should be a minimum hard cap of at least 50km imho.

 

[houtdffan]

Care to remind me when was the last time a TTT made the race better?
Or more TTT miles would make it for a better racing?
ITT is good and often a must, but not the TTT.

Can think of many years. 2001-2003. Even 2009. The Schlecks didn't bring enough TT support and shipped a decent chunk of time

It makes teams actually have to think and plan, instead of using a robotic formula

 

[Big Doopie]

I just don’t see QS beating Jumbo. And Ineos and BEX likely will give them a run.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I just don’t see QS beating Jumbo. And Ineos and BEX likely will give them a run.

Ineos has replaced De Plus with Plapp. That certainly changes things but they still need to bring more guys to the line since they can't leave it to their potential GC guys without the tempo dropping. Meaning they can't really drop anyone. As for Jumbo, in this comparison i think it might not be the best TT'ers on the squad that could decide the outcome, but the worst TT'ers on the squad. And then i think guys like Devenyns, Masnada, Serry... might outperform Kuss+Oomen+Harper...

 

[Extinction]

I don't like the TTT for GC, because it gives the big budget teams an unfair advantage, especially today when GTs might be won by seconds not minutes. Cycling is a team sport, but GC isn't determined cumulatively within teams, but on an individual basis. Hence, the TTT should be a non-GC discipline.

 

[Parker]

Nah, the discussion would shift to "yeah, he won the Vuelta, but the Tour is a different beast, and he hasn't shown himself against Pogacar/Vingegaard/etc yet".

In the last 30 years, Nibali is the only Vuelta winner to go on to win the Tour. Ullrich, Contador and Froome won the Tour first (in real time in Froome's case)

 

[Big Doopie]

I don't like the TTT for GC, because it gives the big budget teams an unfair advantage, especially today when GTs might be won by seconds not minutes. Cycling is a team sport, but GC isn't determined cumulatively within teams, but on an individual basis. Hence, the TTT should be a non-GC discipline.

i largely agree with you.

however, the greatest TDF ever would not have been without it since Fignon's Castorama squad took 50+ seconds off of Lemond's ADR. A very different race would likely have taken place without it...

i also think the event is one of the most beautiful to watch.

;-)

 

[YavorD]

Can think of many years. 2001-2003. Even 2009. The Schlecks didn't bring enough TT support and shipped a decent chunk of time

It makes teams actually have to think and plan, instead of using a robotic formula

Seriously? 2009 was dreadful. Also, you're wrong. Saxo got the best they could for the TTT. Larsson, Voigt, Cancellara, Arvesen, O'Grady. Literally, Schlecks shipped decent amount of time with his A team only because Astaana 2009 was OP.

How exactly the race has been better because of the TTT in 2001-2003? Didn't watch back then but I don't think anyone rates them high. Neither I think anyone thinks "oooh thanks God for the TTT, made the race exciting".

As Logic said, they are beautiful to watch, but should NOT be long enough to be decisive.

 

[Pirazziattacks]

Yes, the TTT is too short

A long TTT forces the teams to decide if they bring TT specialists and leave the flyweight climbers at home, or do they go for climbing support and risk ceding big time in the TTT.

Eliminating this dilemma simply produces the youtube cycling we saw last decade where only short climbing bursts matter to win a GT

I also enjoy watching the teams with the biggest budgets and best equipment dominate the competition. Who needs suspense anyway?