Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Big Doopie]

I mean now it's just learned helplessness in the peloton. They kinda watch Evenepoel go and say "oops". I still don't think the chase in LBL was that good, but people should learn by now you can't mark Evenepoel with 2nd tier leaders or with tired domestiques.

In Liege there was obviously a degree of luck in that Pogacar and Roglic, the 2 would be favorites weren't there because of injury and COVID. Today it was clear there would be very few riders that would be 'suited' to the role of marking Evenepoel. My guess is Pogacar didn't have legs. Van der Poel wasn't there either for obvious reasons. Van Aert is a teammate.

And I don't say this to detract from his win, but teams to go into a race like today with a clear plan of how to respond to Evenepoel because it has become a very frequent feature in races like these. Now these strategical adaptations should be much easier in trade team races, because the parcourses are much more established and there's a much more clear focal point of attack. Like a good Pogacar shouldn't have a lot of downside of responding to Evenepoel on Redoute. Lombardia is the same. It's pretty much Civiglio all in, not really a point where you can attack before that on this years route.

With the Worlds it is much harder because no radios, because national teams and because parcourses are unique circuits every time. And no national team has a 2nd leader good enough to just mark Evenepoel, unless Slovenia would bring Roglic in good form and either he or Pog would consistently sit on Evenepoels ass.

good post.

however, I think it is becoming clearer now that here and at San Sebastián, Remco was not just strong and benefitting from hesitant or second tier chasers or whatever.

On both those days, Remco was absolutely head and shoulders over all competition, literally riding them off his wheel and then steadily increasing the gap to record levels in modern times.

those two days were the most dominant rides of the season (honorable mention to Pog’s Strade). And he has done both arguably during the same part of the season when he appears to have found his consistency. It is a frightening prospect for the future…

 

[Red Rick]

Lampaert thinks he should win "something like the Ballon d'Or of cycling"... WTF. Do these guys not even know there is a Velo d'Or?

Can I nominate Roglic for the equivalent of Fallon d'Floor

 

[Extinction]

If he has this season for the next 10 years his palmares just about matches Merckx, let's not get carried away.

Can't compare epochs anyway. Merckx today doesn't win as much. Let's just say Evenepoel is the real deal.

 

[Riek s]

The biggest advantage for Remco in these races is the lack of earpieces/information.

By the time the peleton knows who is in the break he has an advantage that no team wants to close by themselves.

Ofcourse that is because the way he rides... he attacks, he drives a break. if you rely on control the lack of communication is a lot harder to work with.

 

[Big Doopie]

Getting dropped by Vlasov in Valenciana because “he “cannot do steep climbs” and/or had put on 50 kgs of muscle to improve his acceleration, seems so long ago now…

 

[Extinction]

The biggest advantage for Remco in these races is the lack of earpieces/information.

By the time the peleton knows who is in the break he has an advantage that no team wants to close by themselves.

Ofcourse that is because the way he rides... he attacks, he drives a break. if you rely on control the lack of communication is a lot harder to work with.

But it didn't change anything at Liege and there I'd say it was even more emphatic, because he attacked in everyone's face and they had no response. No, do that once and maybe it's luck, do it many times and you are a phenomenon. No matter what.

 

[Netserk]

good post.

however, I think it is becoming clearer now that here and at San Sebastián, Remco was not just strong and benefitting from hesitant or second tier chasers or whatever.

On both those days, Remco was absolutely head and shoulders over all competition, literally riding them off his wheel and then steadily increasing the gap to record levels in modern times.

those two days were the most dominant rides of the season (honorable mention to Pog’s Strade). And he has done both arguably during the same part of the season when he appears to have found his consistency. It is a frightening prospect for the future…

He rode Lutsenko off his wheel. That was indeed impressive. I wouldn’t quite call Lutsenko all competition though.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

An absolute GOAT of the sport. What a guy.

Yeah, he‘s super good, good on all terrains, and dominant.

He however is still young, and so his palmares cannot be the one of a 35-year old.

I still would consider a rider like Merckx (525 or so pro victories?), or Armstrong (seven Tours de France won, in a row!), or a few other riders, above Remco.

But he‘s really good.

Very nice solo victories for Remco in 2022!… LBL, San Sebastian, now WC RR. He finished it off really classy.

Young Nibali once did a similar solo in LBL, but got heart-breakingly caught by Maxim Iglinsky on the final kilometer. Also MvDP loses time, the longer his solos last. Remco howeveruntil now has the power to maintain or even increase his lead.

 

[Salvarani]

We dont know what will happen in the future, so just gotta enjoy it for now and appreciate the season he has had. Nothing to take for granted or that he will just be able to continue to recreate it year by year.

Hats off to Remco for an amazing season!

Will he do Lombardia or does he ends the season with this win?

 

[Red Rick]

They said he wouldn't do Lombardia before, but I imagine it's hard to resist showing off the jersey at least once before the winter break?

 

[Extinction]

He rode Lutsenko off his wheel. That was indeed impressive. I wouldn’t quite call Lutsenko all competition though.

The point though is that Pogacar, Matthews, etc., should have been on Evenepoel's wheel, as it was always going to be a death sentence if not. And I don't say that lightly. After Liege, the Vuelta and 3rd in Words tt, all anybody had to do is not give him space, that they did can't be chalked up to mere tactics or mistakes, as the legs just weren't there.

 

[DNP-Old]

They said he wouldn't do Lombardia before, but I imagine it's hard to resist showing off the jersey at least once before the winter break?

He's already declined the offer. The only racing he'll do this year is in the disco.

 

[Red Rick]

He's already declined the offer. The only racing he'll do this year is in the disco.

Ah yes, picks a fight with Pog on terrain that suits him then starts dodging immediately after smh

 

[Big Doopie]

Yeah, he‘s super good, good on all terrains, and dominant.

He however is still young, and so his palmares cannot be the one of a 35-year old.

I still would consider a rider like Merckx (525 or so pro victories?), or Armstrong (seven Tours de France won, in a row!), or a few other riders, above Remco.

But he‘s really good.

Very nice solo victories for Remco in 2022!… LBL, San Sebastian, now WC RR. He finished it off really classy.

Young Nibali once did a similar solo in LBL, but got heart-breakingly caught by Maxim Iglinsky on the final kilometer. Also MvDP loses time, the longer his solos last. Remco howeveruntil now has the power to maintain or even increase his lead.

u completely lost me at “…Armstrong…”

had to doublecheck what area of the forum I was in. Lol.

 

[LookProGoSlow]

Has the polemic started yet?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

good post.

however, I think it is becoming clearer now that here and at San Sebastián, Remco was not just strong and benefitting from hesitant or second tier chasers or whatever.

On both those days, Remco was absolutely head and shoulders over all competition, literally riding them off his wheel and then steadily increasing the gap to record levels in modern times.

those two days were the most dominant rides of the season (honorable mention to Pog’s Strade). And he has done both arguably during the same part of the season when he appears to have found his consistency. It is a frightening prospect for the future…

i can see ratings going down in watching cycling if all we get is 50-35km Remco solo's

 

[stonerider]

I'm just amazed that Remco was able to hold such a high level for 6+ weeks...or longer. It wasn't like he was using the Vuelta as "training" for the Worlds...he was actually having to go hard for 3 weeks.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

i can see ratings going down in watching cycling if all we get is 50-35km Remco solo's

50km is the new finish line.

 

[Big Doopie]

The forum meme is alive and well.

many posters/haters ;-) once again discrediting another Remco win.

@Red Rick ‘a posts alone may be 50+% following that line. He even attributed Pog and other’s “bad form” due to the TDF. Are we to forget that the winning rider only just finished a GT while all those riders were resting up and prepping only this race?

funny stuff.

 

[Panda Claws]

Let's be honest though. The field was pretty weak here: no Mohoric, no Roglic, no Van der Poel, an out-of-form Alaphilippe.

Also the other riders could not even chase because Wout Van Aert was with them so basically I could have seen other riders doing the same.

I don't know. It's not that I am disregarding the possibility of him being a world-beater but stuff like this can neither confirm nor deny it.

Let's wait until TDF 2024.

 

[meat puppet]

Evenepoel was clearly superior today, has been on several days before, and will continue to dominate - so hats off for that.

But more generally, IMO there is something perplexing about the recent trend where riding your opponents off the wheel and long range attacks have once again become viable options for the heads of the state. Evenepoel embodies this trend better than anyone else.

In brief, a sufficient edge can once again be found from aerobic (and metabolic) capability, which allows one to ride away. Tactics will of course play a role, and succesful long range attacks of course also inspire further attempts in a cumulative causation manner. Aerodynamics etc play a role too. There are generational talents competing, but every era has those. But the basic requirement for pulling off these kinds of wins is having superior legs, because as per one famous take it's an aerobic sport, dammit.

In the late noughties and 2010s, aerobic monsters like Cancellara (or Boonen) could sometimes stomp the opposition from afar but generally utilizing this tactic was the exception, not the expectation. These days you can almost bet on some favorite going long. On his best days, Evenepoel is almost van Vleuten like, but others too have scored similar victories.

At the same time cycling is further internationalising, the talent pool is at least in principle expanding, and more likely than not the quality of (non-clinic) preparation is expected to become more standardisd amongst the top contenders. So to me the expectation is that the differences in aerobic metabolic capabilities narrow down, not become wider. However, exactly the opposite is played out before our eyes.

This is not a veiled complaint, btw, just trying to think about this aloud. Quite the contrary, the big one day races in the 2010s tended to be a lot more boring as the outcome (reduced sprint or a bunch sprint) was almost guaranteed and no one went long.

So, what might explain the developments and/or what am I missing in this simplistic post here?

 

[Red Rick]

The forum meme is alive and well.

many posters/haters ;-) once again discrediting another Remco win.

@Red Rick ‘a posts alone may be 50+% following that line. He even attributed Pog and other’s “bad form” due to the TDF. Are we to forget that the winning rider only just finished a GT while all those riders were resting up and prepping only this race?

funny stuff.

It's funny that Evenepoel has an all time year and you can still get salty about comments in which I specifically say I don't mean to detract from his win.

 

[Big Doopie]

It's funny that Evenepoel has an all time year and you can still get salty about comments in which I specifically say I don't mean to detract from his win.

And I don’t mean to detract from the valid points you make, but…

Adding the qualifier doesn’t mean that you don’t go on to do just what you say you do not mean to do…lol

as I said, super funny reading the logic pretzels some feel required to twist themselves into.

(btw, when Remco lost the TT, some here tried to make excuses, I posted that he got beat and that’s it.)

 

[rallybanana]

4th rider in history to win a monument, a grand tour and the world championship in one season.

He must be the youngest to have achieved wins in all three in a career?

He is 22 years and 8 months. Merckx was 22 years 11 months when he did it. Saronni and Binda were24 years, Hinault 25 years.

 

[Netserk]

Evenepoel was clearly superior today, has been on several days before, and will continue to dominate - so hats off for that.

But more generally, IMO there is something perplexing about the recent trend where riding your opponents off the wheel and long range attacks have once again become viable options for the heads of the state. Evenepoel embodies this trend better than anyone else.

In brief, a sufficient edge can once again be found from aerobic (and metabolic) capability, which allows one to ride away. Tactics will of course play a role, and succesful long range attacks of course also inspire further attempts in a cumulative causation manner. Aerodynamics etc play a role too. There are generational talents competing, but every era has those. But the basic requirement for pulling off these kinds of wins is having superior legs, because as per one famous take it's an aerobic sport, dammit.

In the late noughties and 2010s, aerobic monsters like Cancellara (or Boonen) could sometimes stomp the opposition from afar but generally utilizing this tactic was the exception, not the expectation. These days you can almost bet on some favorite going long. On his best days, Evenepoel is almost van Vleuten like, but others too have scored similar victories.

At the same time cycling is further internationalising, the talent pool is at least in principle expanding, and more likely than not the quality of (non-clinic) preparation is expected to become more standardisd amongst the top contenders. So to me the expectation is that the differences in aerobic metabolic capabilities narrow down, not become wider. However, exactly the opposite is played out before our eyes.

This is not a veiled complaint, btw, just trying to think about this aloud. Quite the contrary, the big one day races in the 2010s tended to be a lot more boring as the outcome (reduced sprint or a bunch sprint) was almost guaranteed and no one went long.

So, what might explain the developments and/or what am I missing in this simplistic post here?

Tailwind. Tailwinds everywhere. How else does the speed go up, up, up.