Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

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who are these people who make those claims. There are maybe one or two here. And I agree, they are wrong.

but stating that Pog was not in good shape because of the Tdf is absolutely ridiculous. He was rested. Had trained specifically for the worlds. Did his best worlds TT. And had just won Montreal. The only reason to say that is to diminish Remco’s exploit yesterday.

and it’s more that no one ever says that type of stuff about other riders’ wins. Not a single Remco fan belittles Pog’s wins even at the freakin UAE tour where he may factually be the only rider peaking for that event. No one says “oh he only beat Adam Yates”, and “Yates was not in top shape” and “Yates wasn’t really trying” and “Vingo nor Rog were there”. This literally happens with every single one of Remco’s wins. And this time it’s also because not having radios apparently hurt everyone else but somehow helped Remco. Meanwhile he has done exactly this type of ride over and over no matter the situation or the opponents. It used to be that he could only do it if it wasn’t World Tour. And yet here we are, LBL, San Sebastián and the Worlds later, and STILL the diminishing of each win.

it’s just funny. Because the people doing it don’t even seem to realize that they are now doing a parody of themselves each time they come up with the same or new reasons.
Yeah, and so what? Is it obligatory to ask absolutely no questions regarding his quality? Most people in the forum probably mean that is the cyclist of the year. And I would think that almost everyone thinks that he is one of the top 3-4 riders even in seasons where everyone was in peak shape for the most important events they targeted. But that is not good enough. We must also think that is just about the greatest in cycling since at least Hinaut, that he is already able to ride a Pogacar in peak shape of his wheel in mountains or the toughest hilly classics. I really don't read or participate that much in the rider threads here, but the Remco fanboy worship seem to be at another level. And maybe that is also why someone dare to ask questions.
 
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I'm just amazed that Remco was able to hold such a high level for 6+ weeks...or longer. It wasn't like he was using the Vuelta as "training" for the Worlds...he was actually having to go hard for 3 weeks.
I believe he basically got in top shape by LBL (as planned) and basically never dropped his level for 4 months. He actually got an astonishing success rate during that time. He won 4 out of 5 one day races he entered only losing the flat NC because of a bunch sprint. He won the 4 races with almost a minute or more. He also won the national ITT with ease and lost the WCC ITT by only 9 seconds (where he presumably lacked some preparation and mental freshness as he lost time in downhill corners). Of the 3 stage races he entered, he won 2 in a dominant fashion. He had issues in Switzerland but he suffered a heat stroke and he still managed to win the ITT after recovering.
 
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With the shape of spring, you win every race in fall. (Jean-Claude Leclercq)

Basically that.

Oh and he certainly had his Di Luca 2005 season moment.

Actually even more. He won Liege, the Vuelta a Espana and has become world champion after all.

I have to admit that!
 
With the shape of spring, you win every race in fall. (Jean-Claude Leclercq)

Basically that.

Oh and he certainly had his Di Luca 2005 season moment.

Actually even more. He won Liege, the Vuelta a Espana and has become world champion after all.

I have to admit that!
Not too shabby for a classics rider.
Did he win any race against mvdp?
 
Yeah, and so what? Is it obligatory to ask absolutely no questions regarding his quality? Most people in the forum probably mean that is the cyclist of the year. And I would think that almost everyone thinks that he is one of the top 3-4 riders even in seasons where everyone was in peak shape for the most important events they targeted. But that is not good enough. We must also think that is just about the greatest in cycling since at least Hinaut, that he is already able to ride a Pogacar in peak shape of his wheel in mountains or the toughest hilly classics. I really don't read or participate that much in the rider threads here, but the Remco fanboy worship seem to be at another level. And maybe that is also why someone dare to ask questions.

so if for you, it’s not about the rider, but about your hate of the “fanboy worship”, why do waste your time reading their posts in the thread devoted to the rider.

I personally find nothing appealing about a few riders. I simply don’t post or read those threads.

you appear to come here just to rankle and be rankled by other posters. Not a very happy pastime.
 
Yeah, and so what? Is it obligatory to ask absolutely no questions regarding his quality? Most people in the forum probably mean that is the cyclist of the year. And I would think that almost everyone thinks that he is one of the top 3-4 riders even in seasons where everyone was in peak shape for the most important events they targeted. But that is not good enough. We must also think that is just about the greatest in cycling since at least Hinaut, that he is already able to ride a Pogacar in peak shape of his wheel in mountains or the toughest hilly classics. I really don't read or participate that much in the rider threads here, but the Remco fanboy worship seem to be at another level. And maybe that is also why someone dare to ask questions.
Well, over the next seasons, we shall certainly find out if Remco beats peak Pog in those races. In the meantime, consider what Guilmard said of Evenepoel's talent before his Lombardia crash: he's better than Hinault.
 
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so if for you, it’s not about the rider, but about your hate of the “fanboy worship”, why do waste your time reading their posts in the thread devoted to the rider.

I personally find nothing appealing about a few riders. I simply don’t post or read those threads.

you appear to come here just to rankle and be rankled by other posters. Not a very happy pastime.
Why do you call every post that isn't unanimously positive for "hate", or all that question Remco for "haters"? There are some riders I don't like. Valverde and Matthews are a couple of them. Regarding Remco I'm pretty neutral. I certainly don't hate him or dislike him in any way. There are pretty many levels between hate and the fanboy level of some of the exhibit. We're in a debate forum. Not just a thread for solely praising the riders.
 

Reading between the lines, Lefevere still seems very keen to send him to Il Giro, rather than the Tour.
 
He wins the Vuelta because there was no strong competition.

He wins the WC because the strong competition was stupid.

He wins LBL, san sebastian, vuelta and WC. But for some reason it is not because Remco is strong, but because the competition is weak. When Pogi won LBL everybody praised him. When Remco does it a year later it is because Pogi wasn't there. Newsflash. When Pogi won, evenepoel wasnt there either.

Of course he is strong. I would just like to see him ride against the best for once (not a critique of him, obviously).

Plus, I really am not a sucker for long solos.
 

Reading between the lines, Lefevere still seems very keen to send him to Il Giro, rather than the Tour.

That would be absurd.

But it isn't quite how I interpret what he says (at least if I understand the verb afgaan correctly).
 
Reading between the lines, Lefevere still seems very keen to send him to Il Giro, rather than the Tour.
Actually think that would be fine. Although I want to see him up againt Pog and Vingegaard, I'm really a bigger fan of the Giro than the Tour, and at the moment with the lame race design, I think the Giro needs something extra to stay relevant and interesting. Remco and secondary a peak Roglig could be just that.
 
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Tactically, yes.
I guess that's bike racing, no? Tactics and that kind of stuff?
You don't like Remco showing that, once he has a gap, he can hold it, but you also don't like Remco to just make that gap?

So in your world, Remco shouldn't have attacked, because:
  1. Favourites were in position but didn't dare to move, e.g. Alaphilippe was in a good position to follow the move, but you know, he just sent his lieutenants up the road and wasn't mentally prepared that one of the favourites dared to follow that move. Solution: Remco just shouldn't have attacked to solve this problem.
  2. Favourites were out of position, e.g. Pogacar was way out of position, so Remco shouldn't attack with Pogacar in the middle of the peloton on that climb. That's not very gentleman. Ofcourse we won't talk about why Pogacar wasn't in position, but anyway, here is the solution: Remco should have dropped back, apologize, inform Pogacar about his attack in the next lap, offer him to follow his wheel and thus serve Tobydawq his phantasy cycling dream of how a race should he ridden and won in the only correct way possible.
  3. Favourites struggled on the climb, e.g. Girmay had difficulties holding wheels when the group stretched after Remco followed that move. Solution: Remco should only attack on the descents and flat, but only when all of the above conditions (favourites informed and in position) are met.
Again, attacking and catching your competition off-guard is part of racing. It's the way AVV won the worlds, and it's the way 1 out of 2 sprints in a small group are won (by correct timing, positioning, catching your opponent off-guard when you start your sprint,... but I never hear someone saying that's not deserved). And if you look at how Remco finished off his competition in that front group: he had a big sign on his back that said "I am going to attack, multiplle times so you get more than one chance, so follow my wheel" and he still rode away like they were juniors. Lutsenko had a great day and obviously hoped that Remco would take him over the climb into the last lap, but the moment he started softpedalling, Remco decided to ditch him sooner. Ofcourse, in the peloton, there were more riders who could have done a great ride and Remco can't destroy them all the way he did with Lutsenko, but what did those riders actually show in the race that proves they had it in them? The only 2 riders showing more than a glimmer of strenght were Madouas on the 3rd last climb, and WvA on the penultimate climb. Remco would have done the exact same thing with a guy like Madouas.

Just imagine Remco NOT in that front group, but e.g. one of your so-called other favourites (Cosnefroy, Almeida, Pogacar, etc.). Imagine the peloton behind, with Remco in there. Name 1 rider who could have bridged alone, or who would at least have created splits, havoc, chaos and attacks in that peloton on his own, in order to chase that front group. You know there is only one rider who showed, in this race, he could pull that off.

You would have a much stronger argument if you had e.g. Pogacar going all out chasing Remco after Remco enjoyed an armchair ride until the last lap thanks to some lesser gods in that breakaway, with a heroic Pogacar coming short 10-30 seconds at the finish. That didn't happen: there were no heroic efforts in the chase (yes they had WvA in their wheel, but they didn't even try), and Remco went solo very early to remove any doubts, except maybe for those that always doubt.
 
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I guess that's bike racing, no? Tactics and that kind of stuff?
You don't like Remco showing that, once he has a gap, he can hold it, but you also don't like Remco to just make that gap?

So in your world, Remco shouldn't have attacked, because:
  1. Favourites were in position but didn't dare to move, e.g. Alaphilippe was in a good position to follow the move, but you know, he just sent his lieutenants up the road and wasn't mentally prepared that one of the favourites dared to follow that move. Solution: Remco just shouldn't have attacked to solve this problem.
  2. Favourites were out of position, e.g. Pogacar was way out of position, so Remco shouldn't attack with Pogacar in the middle of the peloton on that climb. That's not very gentleman. Ofcourse we won't talk about why Pogacar wasn't in position, but anyway, here is the solution: Remco should have dropped back, apologize, inform Pogacar about his attack in the next lap, offer him to follow his wheel and thus serve Tobydawq his phantasy cycling dream of how a race should he ridden and won in the only correct way possible.
  3. Favourites struggled on the climb, e.g. Girmay had difficulties holding wheels when the group stretched after Remco followed that move. Solution: Remco should only attack on the descents and flat, but only when all of the above conditions (favourites informed and in position) are met.
Again, attacking and catching your competition off-guard is part of racing. It's the way AVV won the worlds, and it's the way 1 out of 2 sprints in a small group are won (by correct timing, positioning, catching your opponent off-guard when you start your sprint,... but I never hear someone saying that's not deserved). And if you look at how Remco finished off his competition in that front group: he had a big sign on his back that said "I am going to attack, multiplle times so you get more than one chance, so follow my wheel" and he still rode away like they were juniors. Lutsenko had a great day and obviously hoped that Remco would take him over the climb into the last lap, but the moment he started softpedalling, Remco decided to ditch him sooner. Ofcourse, in the peloton, there were more riders who could have done a great ride and Remco can't destroy them all the way he did with Lutsenko, but what did those riders actually show in the race that proves they had it in them? The only 2 riders showing more than a glimmer of strenght were Madouas on the 3rd last climb, and WvA on the penultimate climb. Remco would have done the exact same thing with a guy like Madouas.

Just imagine Remco NOT in that front group, but e.g. one of your so-called other favourites (Cosnefroy, Almeida, Pogacar, etc.). Imagine the peloton behind, with Remco in there. Name 1 rider who could have bridged alone, or who would at least have created splits, havoc, chaos and attacks in that peloton on his own, in order to chase that front group. You know there is only one rider who showed, in this race, he could pull that off.

You would have a much stronger argument if you had e.g. Pogacar going all out chasing Remco after Remco enjoyed an armchair ride until the last lap thanks to some lesser gods in that breakaway, with a heroic Pogacar coming short 10-30 seconds at the finish. That didn't happen: there were no heroic efforts in the chase (yes they had WvA in their wheel, but they didn't even try), and Remco went solo very early to remove any doubts, except maybe for those that always doubt.

I have no problem with Remco attacking. Of course he should do that when nobody can ever catch him.

It just isn't particularly interesting to watch. And then I do get a little exasperated that the best riders never try to follow him, especially when he went away as softly as he did yesterday.
 
I have no problem with Remco attacking. Of course he should do that when nobody can ever catch him.

It just isn't particularly interesting to watch. And then I do get a little exasperated that the best riders never try to follow him, especially when he went away as softly as he did yesterday.
Ofcourse I'm biased in being happy to see Remco win, but I agree that this race had more potential on the exciting-scale.
But that's not Remco's fault ofcourse. I feel the French, especially Voeckler, were praising Remco too much after the finish, instead of reflecting on what they could have done better.
The absence of MvdP, and the general underwhelming performance of Pogacar were, imho, big factors in chase not ever getting on the rails.
And the moment Senechal was driving that front group, I couldn't ignore thinking he is a team mate of Evenepoel...
 
I was just wondering, has it ever happened that Remco couldn't finish off a solo once he started one (gets a gap of about 10 seconds solo)?

Out of the top of my head I can only remember his 100km+ solo effort in the Tour of Germany a few years back.