Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

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AlfaLum

Mar 13, 2021
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Also and I am not gonna lie about that. I am having a very hard time accepting that someone who does what Pogacar has done these last three years is apparently clearly not the best rider in the world.

Look at what the guy did. And that does not mean I want to take anything away from Evenepoel. Because I can say the same thing about him, and specifically the 2022 season.

But putting someone ahead of Pogacar as the best rider in the world. I simply can’t do it after all the performances I saw from Pogie.
 
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Extinction

Extinction

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AlfaLum said:
You have a point, but still I think that it might also make him biased to a certain degree.

It obviously goes without saying that we have seen some extremely impressive performances by Evenepoel. Performances where the rest of the peloton was helpless over a long distance despite putting in all the effort possible. It must also have made them feel helpless. But that is also exactly where Remco’s uniqueness is, he kills of the entire peloton once he is gone.

But does that alone make him a better rider than Pogacar? For me not yet. Because Pogacar also has had some extremely good performances in the best races.

And while Valverde must have felt the punches, he has been outboxed by both riders in recent years almost everywhere it mattered. So while he might have felt Evenepoels blows where harder, he was also knocked out by Pogacar on many occasions. And even he cannot say if Evenepoel can deliver an extremely hard knockout blow to Pogacar, or whether repeated Pogacar strikes will tire out Evenepoel to eventually beat him down.

So while I obviously take Valverde seriously, it is still just an opinion for me.
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Well what you call bias, I call first hand experience. And precisely because he's been knocked out by both, he knows who hits harder.

Having said that, I don't say Remco is better than Tadej and, until he beats him at the Tour (to say nothing of Vingegaard), I won't state it outright. My point was that it was surprising to hear Valverde come down so forcibly in favor of Remco's superiority andit makes me think there are things with Remco we haven't seen yet and don't realize. It's like what Nibali said about Liege and what Van Avermat said of Remco; that he basically can't wrap his mind around how good he really is. So you see, it's not just Valverde stating incredible things.

I'm just going to enjoy watching the next years.
 
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Andy schleck

Andy schleck

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AlfaLum said:
Also and I am not gonna lie about that. I am having a very hard time accepting that someone who does what Pogacar has done these last three years is apparently clearly not the best rider in the world.

Look at what the guy did.
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2 tours de france, 1 liege bastogne liege, 2 il lombardias, in the last 3 years. It's unquestionable who is the best rider in the world currently.
 
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Extinction

Extinction

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Andy schleck said:
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Pogi wasn't on top of his shape at lombardia. But he won the race.
Remco is one of the best riders of the world, but it doesn't make any sense saying that he is way better than pogacar.
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I never said he was, but Valverde. I debate, however, that Pog wasn't near his best at Lombardia, as his level was clearly very high. Now Vingegaard was a shadow of his Tour level, but not Tadej imo.
 
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AlfaLum

Mar 13, 2021
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Extinction said:
Well what you call bias, I call first hand experience. And precisely because he's been knocked out by both, he knows who hits harder.

Having said that, I don't say Remco is better than Tadej and until he beats him at the Tour I want state it outright. My point was that it was surprising to hear Valverde come down so forcibly about Remco's superiority and I makes me think there are things with Remco we haven't seen yet and don't realize. It's like what Nibali said about Liege and what Van Avermat said of Remco; that he basically can't wrap his mind around how good he really is. So you see, it's not just Valverde stating incredible things.

I'm just going to enjoy watching the next years.
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I understand your point, and it’s fair. But Valverde can never be sure that Evenepoel would land the same blow when fighting against Pogacar.
 
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Extinction

Extinction

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AlfaLum said:
Also and I am not gonna lie about that. I am having a very hard time accepting that someone who does what Pogacar has done these last three years is apparently clearly not the best rider in the world.

Look at what the guy did. And that does not mean I want to take anything away from Evenepoel. Because I can say the same thing about him, and specifically the 2022 season.

But putting someone ahead of Pogacar as the best rider in the world. I simply can’t do it after all the performances I saw from Pogie.
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Right until Remco wins the Tour, he is missing the final piece of the puzzle. I'd say, however, Remco's performances outside the Tour have been more devestating, how he won Liege, San Sebastian and Worlds for instance.
 
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Extinction

Extinction

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AlfaLum said:
I understand your point, and it’s fair. But Valverde can never be sure that Evenepoel would land the same blow when fighting against Pogacar.
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Ah, well, that's different. We're talking about who hit him harder, not whether the same punch sends Pog down.
 
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AlfaLum

Mar 13, 2021
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Extinction said:
Right until Remco wins the Tour, he is missing the final piece of the puzzle. I'd say, however, Remco's performances outside the Tour have been more devestating, how he won Liege for instance.
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Well that’s something I agree with. The way Remco wins these races is unseen in cycling in the past decades, while Pogacar, despite being a very attacking rider wins in a more convential way.

However, Pogacar does have a lot of weapons in his arsenal. And Remco will have to drop him in most races in order to win. I wouldn’t bet against Remco reaching a level where he will just drop everywhere when he wants, even in the Tour. But I also wouldn’t bet against Pogacar reaching levels where Remco is not able to drop him everywhere. ;)
 
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Extinction

Extinction

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AlfaLum said:
Well that’s something I agree with. The way Remco wins these races is unseen in cycling in the past decades, while Pogacar, despite being a very attacking rider wins in a more convential way.

However, Pogacar does have a lot of weapons in his arsenal. And Remco will have to drop him in most races in order to win. I wouldn’t bet against Remco reaching a level where he will just drop everywhere when he wants, even in the Tour. But I also wouldn’t bet against Pogacar reaching levels where Remco is not able to drop him everywhere. ;)
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One thing is for certain (at least I hope), we are in for some incredible battles in the coming years!
 
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AlfaLum

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Extinction said:
Ah, well, that's different. We're talking about who hit him harder, not whether the same punch sends Pog down.
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Extinction said:
Ah, well, that's different. We're talking about who hit him harder, not whether the same punch sends Pog down.
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Well my point in this analogy is the following:

In order for Evenepoel to be the better rider he needs to send Pog down.

And while Valverde might be able to judge who strikes the hardest. He is not really able to judge whose strikes will land when they face each other.

And therefore it is just an opinion to me where his judgement might be right or it might be wrong. ;)
 
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AlfaLum

Mar 13, 2021
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Extinction said:
One thing is for certain (at least I hope), we are in for some incredible battles in the coming years!
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Very true! And since it is cycling, it might just be that some other guys will (un)expectantly join the party!

lets just hope that these two main protagonists won’t leave the party in the next 10 years. ;)
 
Andy schleck

Andy schleck

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B

Big Doopie

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Andy schleck said:
,
Pogi wasn't on top of his shape at lombardia. But he won the race.
Remco is one of the best riders of the world, but it doesn't make any sense saying that he is way better than pogacar.
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Just to be clear, no one here said that.

Valverde did.

That is the only reason it is of interest.
 
Andy schleck

Andy schleck

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DNP-Old said:
The watts are the watts, they are what count. Erlaitz, Pico Jano and Gaustatoppen are three performances with numbers Pogacar is yet to replicate, those are the facts.
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6.66 w/kg on peyresourde tour 2020 in 26 min is way better than 6.5 w/kg on tour norway. And i'm not even take in consideration that it was a more difficult stage, that it was the tour, a more fast race, and other factors.
 
tobydawq

tobydawq

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Andy schleck said:
6.66 w/kg on peyresourde tour 2020 in 26 min is way better than 6.5 w/kg on tour norway. And i'm not even take in consideration that it was a more difficult stage, that it was the tour, a more fast race, and other factors.
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Not to mention the different magnetism Tim Declercq was talking about there must have been in Norway.
 
H

houtdffan

Jul 20, 2019
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Extinction said:
Well what you call bias, I call first hand experience. And precisely because he's been knocked out by both, he knows who hits harder.

Having said that, I don't say Remco is better than Tadej and until he beats him at the Tour I won't state it outright. My point was that it was surprising to hear Valverde come down so forcibly about Remco's superiority and I makes me think there are things with Remco we haven't seen yet and don't realize. It's like what Nibali said about Liege and what Van Avermat said of Remco; that he basically can't wrap his mind around how good he really is. So you see, it's not just Valverde stating incredible things.

I'm just going to enjoy watching the next years.
Click to expand...

It's also Hinault's old coach who said Remco is better than Hinault
 
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DNP-Old

DNP-Old

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Andy schleck said:
6.66 w/kg on peyresourde tour 2020 in 26 min is way better than 6.5 w/kg on tour norway. And i'm not even take in consideration that it was a more difficult stage, that it was the tour, a more fast race, and other factors.
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You can shift goalposts all you like. The watts are what count, and Remco just has better numbers. There’s no other to put it. Does that mean he is the better cyclist? Not at all. But it does mean your statement is incorrect.
 
Extinction

Extinction

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Andy schleck said:
6.66 w/kg on peyresourde tour 2020 in 26 min is way better than 6.5 w/kg on tour norway. And i'm not even take in consideration that it was a more difficult stage, that it was the tour, a more fast race, and other factors.
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So according to your logic, Remco was at his best in the Tour of freekin Norway and won't be much, much better when he does ride the Tour? Hell the Remco who won the Vuelta was far superior to the Remco at the Tour of Norway. This is getting ridiculous.
 
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Extinction

Extinction

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Blobs said:
Sure he's been the best over the last 3 years, and he was the best in 2021, but that doesn't mean he's unquestionably the best currently. Remco clearly had a better 2022.
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I think Pog is exceptional, but he really took the stage (with great merit) in a moment when Remco risked his career and life in the Lombardia fall. This is not to diminish Tadej's accomplishment, but let's hold off on the platitudes and declarations of his superiority, before we get a real top Evenepoel against him. This didn't happen this year, eccept at Worlds really.

Unfortunately, it looks like we will have to wait for 2024 to see the big showdown at the Tour. Valverde's statement, however, was surprising, because it was so categorical, as if what he saw (presumably at Liege, San Sebastian and the Vuelta) was simply mindboggling. And here this opens up the discussion/debate, no matter what Pogacar has achieved so far, also because he lost the Tour.
 
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