Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[sir fly]

They don't even need to design a route "for" Remco. The Vuelta wasn't massively favourable to him, and neither is next year's Giro.

I don't think any route should be designed either to help or hinder any particular rider, but to at least make it interesting is possible.

There's a generous amount of time trialing after all.
He'll just need to hold on over the mountains.
That's the way I read the Giro route.

Next step in his progress toward the Tour.

 

[Extinction]

Right, but in this case both Remco and Pogi have proven they can win both GTs and monuments. So if you’re going by the biggest race, Pogi is above Remco no? And Vingo above all? The Tour is the biggest race in the World after all. If you’re talking biggest races, plural, it’s back to being subjective, as all riders don’t follow the same program and rarely does one win them all. Andthank god or they’re be no need for a discussion forum unless you guys just want to sit around and stroke your favorite riders. Oh wait, I’m in the Remco thread…

First of all, nobody here said Remco is currently better than Pog, but Valverde. Is that so difficult to understand? If you want to debate, then let's get the basics straight. In cases like these, a bit of subjectivity enters the picture, yes, because, as you say, we are talking about guys capable of winning GTs, Monuments and Worlds (in reality only Remco has done all three, while Vingo has thus far only won the Tour and Pog lacks the Worlds - yet the Tour is the game changer). What can be said objectively, and this is why your analysis is somewhat daft, is that if Remco or Tadej continue to win GTs (with the Tour obviously having highest prestige), monuments and Worlds, then there will be nothing subjective about it and he is the best. Until Remco wins the Tour, he is below Tadej, but they are much, much more evenly positioned now that Evenepoel has this year won Liege, Vuelta and Worlds with Pog losing the Tour. Vingo is king this year, because he won the Tour, but by a very scant margin, since Pog was still second and won several other premier races (and did so from Feb. to Oct.), which Vingo did not; with Evenepoel now emerging as the biggest challenger. Moreover, Vingo has only won his first Tour compared to Pog's two, with the latter having also netted monuments and several other important events. So career wise Pog is considerably ahead of Vingo, who at the very least must repeat himself at the Tour to remain in contention, with Evenepoel, however, pounding at the door. So the situation is now an extremely tight one, requiring the next few years to get a clearer picture. It is thus all the more noteworthy Valverde saying that not only is Remco the best, but by far. Wow! The Belgian must have impressed him a way Pog hasn't, with Vingo not in the same ring. So if there is any merit to his statement, we should see Remco continuing to do what he did this year, with taking the Tour not a question of if, but when and how soon. If Valverde is just talking nonesence then Tadej's only challenge in the forseeable future will be Vingo. Yet the debate is subjective only in so far as the moment is extraordinary, because we have three chiefs who are presently very, very close in the pecking order. I mean, we're not talking about apples to oranges here, but riders objectively head and shoulders above the rest.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

to “debate” does not assume bias.

please point to any unreasoned assessment that I have made re: Remco. And as I have noted, it is often the more ardent, less “reasoned” Remco fans who have been proven correct despite my attempts to not be so black and white. In other words, my assessments have regularly been wrong but not in the way you may think/hope.

That's right, you Vaughters lover.
Like that guy knows Evenepoel better. HAH!

Seriously though, i assume you are also talking about me, but it was never faith, adoration or dedication for me. Just logical deduction, facts, numbers he pushed as a junior, achievements in relation to his bodytype...

 

[Extinction]

That's right, you Vaughters lover.
Like that guy knows Evenepoel better. HAH!

Seriously though, i assume you are also talking about me, but it was never faith, adoration or dedication for me. Just logical deduction, facts, numbers he pushed as a junior, achievements in relation to his bodytype...

I never for a second thought he was talking about you, as there is nothing out in left field about your considerations concerning him.

 

[Extinction]

Yes, remco of la vuelta was better than remco of norway even he didn't 6.5 w/kg in a half hour like in tour norway. I'm just following the logic of @DNP-Old . For him it just matters the watts.
Purely in terms of watts performance, pogacar and vingegaard were better this year than remco. And that's a fact. If remco had raced the tour this year with is vuelta shape he would finish in third place.
It's remco who needs to prove against pogacar and even against vingegaard at the tour, not the other way around.
If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best. Don't run away for the giro instead of going to the tour.
Even lefevre knows that he is not on the same level. That's the reason why he's going to do the giro next year.

Firstly, at Tour time this year Remco wasn't ready, having planned his season around the Vuelta AND Worlds. Secondly, what he would have done at a Tour he didn't prepare specifically for is open to any speculation and ultimately moot, as in point of fact he wasn't there. Thirdly, if you think he is "running away" to the Giro you are being merely spiteful and absurd. Of course, the others could do the Giro and the Tour as the greats of yore. Problem solverd, they get to go head to head with Remco at the Giro and then go on for the Tour and enter greatness. Talk about big balls. This, of course, were Evenepoel actually doing the Giro, as seems likely, but we won't know officially until 7 January.

 

[tobydawq]

Firstly, at Tour time this year Remco wasn't ready, having planned his season around the Vuelta AND Worlds. Secondly, what he would have done at a Tour he didn't prepare specifically for is open to any speculation and ultimately moot, as in point of fact he wasn't there. Thirdly, if you think he is "running away" to the Giro you are being merely spiteful and absurd. Of course, the others could do the Giro and the Tour as the greats of yore. Problem solverd, they get to go head to head with Remco at the Giro and then go on for the Tour and enter greatness. Talk about big balls. This, of course, were Evenepoel actually doing the Giro, as seems likely, but we won't know officially until 7 January.

It's definitely not absurd to say that he's running away by doing the Giro instead of the Tour.

As I said before, his time is now.

 

[sir fly]

It's definitely not absurd to say that he's running away by doing the Giro instead of the Tour.

As I said before, his time is now.

Ungraciously put, rather than absurd.

Nothing cowardly in biding the time.
Vuelta was his big target and had been prepared meticulously. The rest rode it on the back of their season's targets.
Giro affords a level above challenge in every sense. The tougher route, fresher field, narrower buildup window, erratic racing.
Exactly what he and the team need before turning their attention to the Tour.

And the order of targeting he's picking makes perfect sense considering his GT ambitions.

 

[Extinction]

It's definitely not absurd to say that he's running away by doing the Giro instead of the Tour.

As I said before, his time is now.

It's absurd, because he's not "running away," but sticking to or being persuaded to stick to, a predetermined program. I'm certain he would not be affraid to go to the Tour, that's what is cockamamie.

 

[tobydawq]

It's absurd, because he's not "running away," but sticking to or being persuaded to stick to, a predetermined program. I'm certain he would not be affraid to go to the Tour, that's what is cockamamie.

Yeah, it's not his own fault, I'll give you that.

 

[LucVdB]

Even if they race the same Tour, it's still a team sport. Right now I don't think the respective teams are on the same level.

 

[hayneplane]

With Valverde in Team Remco what the forum needs to explode is for Nibali to declare for Team Pogi.

 

[Peyroteo94]

We are only looking to wins. For me the most impressive ride of the season was Pogi in Flanders. It just dropped my jaw, he put a peak MVP on the ropes there and destroyed former winners like Asgreen. Tell me when im the last 20 years, a Tour winner did a performance like this.

 

[OlavEH]

We are only looking to wins. For me the most impressive ride of the season was Pogi in Flanders. It just dropped my jaw, he put a peak MVP on the ropes there and destroyed former winners like Asgreen. Tell me when im the last 20 years, a Tour winner did a performance like this

Pog is definitely more versatile than Remco. He can ride cobbles and gravel and he has a decent sprint. Remco is a better time trialist and better on a long breakaway in hilly races. And for now I would say that Pog is the top GC rider of the two. And therefore the best rider in total.

 

[Extinction]

We are only looking to wins. For me the most impressive ride of the season was Pogi in Flanders. It just dropped my jaw, he put a peak MVP on the ropes there and destroyed former winners like Asgreen. Tell me when im the last 20 years, a Tour winner did a performance like this.

MvdP was not in peak form.

 

[Salvarani]

MvdP was not in peak form.

What a lazy comment to downplay that performance.

MVDP won the race and every other cobbles rider/classics specialists were dropped.

 

[sir fly]

What a lazy comment to downplay that performance.

MVDP won the race and every other cobbles rider/classics specialists were dropped.

The tenth racing day can't be called the peak.
The talent to pull off a winning performance is a different matter.

 

[Salvarani]

The tenth racing day can't be called the peak.
The talent to pull off a winning performance is a different matter.

How has MVDP form anything to do with Pogs performance in the race? It was a great and impressive ride against all the best cobbles riders and classics specialists, on their terrain. Whether MVDP was at his best day that is neither here nor there. He still won the race... so he cant have been that bad.

If we are gonna say "such and such wasnt at his best, so we cant really say that it was that great by xyz" we can basically start downplaying any great performance. Because there is always gonna be someone who is not in the greatest form or has a bad day.

 

[sir fly]

How has MVDP form anything to do with Pogs performance in the race? It was a great and impressive ride against all the best cobbles riders and classics specialists, on their terrain. Whether MVDP was at his best day that is neither here nor there. He still won the race... so he cant have been that bad.

If we are gonna say "such and such wasnt at his best, so we cant really say that it was that great by xyz" we can basically start downplaying any great performance. Because there is always gonna be someone who is not in the greatest form or has a bad day.

Nowhere mentioned or downplayed Pogačar's performance.
Was only referring to the claim MVdP was at his peak.

And I'm not sure who's the one that did so.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

With Valverde in Team Remco what the forum needs to explode is for Nibali to declare for Team Pogi.

Has Gilbert entered the debate yet?

 

[Andre]

I agree. We got Valverde's opinion...now we need more riders to talk. Boonen, Nibali, Gilbert, maybe even Landa (although Landa already said Remco is above every one) or something along those lines during Burgos.

 

[sir fly]

I agree. We got Valverde's opinion...now we need more riders to talk. Boonen, Nibali, Gilbert, maybe even Landa (although Landa already said Remco is above every one) or something along those lines during Burgos.

Why stop there?!
OEBS, UN Security Council, OPEC...
Existential topic.
We can't make up our minds by ourselves.
...in the offseason.

 

[tobydawq]

The solution is fairly simple.

Pogacar finished the Tour in 79 hours, 36 minutes, 3 seconds.
Remco finished the Vuelta in 80 hours, 26 minutes, 59 seconds.

Pogacar is almost an hour better. Remco would have only finished 15th in the Tour.

 

[sir fly]

The solution is fairly simple.

Pogacar finished the Tour in 79 hours, 36 minutes, 3 seconds.
Remco finished the Vuelta in 80 hours, 26 minutes, 59 seconds.

Pogacar is almost an hour better. Remco would have only finished 15th in the Tour.

Where does the Giro stand?

 

[Big Doopie]

If we are gonna say "such and such wasnt at his best, so we cant really say that it was that great by xyz" we can basically start downplaying any great performance. Because there is always gonna be someone who is not in the greatest form or has a bad day.

remco, is that you?

 

[red_flanders]

Cool that Valverde weighed in and has a strong POV. The way I read his comments is simply that Remco does things other riders can't do, like drop the entire peloton in the Worlds. The great things he sees from others are more normal, less something he's never seen before. If he thinks Remco is the best, great. I think he could be, but not there yet.

When Remco beats Pog at the Tour and the Ronde, there will be no doubt. Until that happens, if it ever happens, there will be debate. That's a good thing.