Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[KZD]

Sure he's been the best over the last 3 years, and he was the best in 2021, but that doesn't mean he's unquestionably the best currently. Remco clearly had a better 2022.

I still think Pogacar is the best rider in the world because all of his last 3 seaosns were very good however as you said the fact that a healthy Evenepoel was able to have a better season than a healthy Pogacar says a lot about his potential to become the best rider in the world somewhere in the future even taking into account the fact than Pogacar 2021 was even better than Evenepoel 2022. People sometimes forget that apart from his rookie season in 2019, this was the first full healthy season that Remco had and the fact that he manage to win a monument, a Grand Tour and the World Championships speaks volumes.

 

[OlavEH]

The watts are the watts, they are what count. Erlaitz, Pico Jano and Gaustatoppen are three performances with numbers Pogacar is yet to replicate, those are the facts.

So it doesn't matter how tough the stage are before the final climb?

 

[Andy schleck]

So according to your logic, Remco was at his best in the Tour of freekin Norway and won't be much, much better when he does ride the Tour? Hell the Remco who won the Vuelta was far superior to the Remco at the Tour of Norway. This is getting ridiculous.

Yes, remco of la vuelta was better than remco of norway even he didn't 6.5 w/kg in a half hour like in tour norway. I'm just following the logic of @DNP-Old . For him it just matters the watts.
Purely in terms of watts performance, pogacar and vingegaard were better this year than remco. And that's a fact. If remco had raced the tour this year with is vuelta shape he would finish in third place.
It's remco who needs to prove against pogacar and even against vingegaard at the tour, not the other way around.
If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best. Don't run away for the giro instead of going to the tour.
Even lefevre knows that he is not on the same level. That's the reason why he's going to do the giro next year.

 

[Valv.Piti]

What a load of BS by my man Don Alejandro. Pogacar is the best in the world at the moment, but Remco is not far of. However, saying that Remco is by far the best is obvious horse crap, although I kinda get where hes coming from.

 

[Salvarani]

Murcia and Alicante is 80km from each other. How about that.

 

[tobydawq]

What a load of BS by my man Don Alejandro. Pogacar is the best in the world at the moment, but Remco is not far of. However, saying that Remco is by far the best is obvious horse crap, although I kinda get where hes coming from.

Not dog vomit?

 

[Cookster15]

What a load of BS by my man Don Alejandro. Pogacar is the best in the world at the moment, but Remco is not far of. However, saying that Remco is by far the best is obvious horse crap, although I kinda get where hes coming from.

Sometimes people like to say nice things. AV got carried away or at least is a little premature. But maybe it was Remco winning the Vuelta easily then following that up by riding off the front to win his rainbow bands? That was incredible.

 

[DNP-Old]

So it doesn't matter how tough the stage are before the final climb?

In this particular discussion it does not. In case you require a reminder, it was said that Remco never did the numbers of Pogacar and which is what I responded to. Unfortunately for said poster, the complete opposite is true. Despite his continuous mental gymnastics.

 

[Andy schleck]

In this particular discussion it does not. In case you require a reminder, it was said that Remco never did the numbers of Pogacar and which is what I responded to. Unfortunately for said poster, the complete opposite is true. Despite his continuous mental gymnastics.

Stop with your BS remco fanboy. Pogacar did better numbers considering or not considering all of the fators subjective to the race. You know very well what i said, when i said "remco never did the numbers pogacar did". You don't understand that and if you think remco is better than pogacar, you are delusional.

 

[DNP-Old]

Stop with your BS remco fanboy. Pogacar did better numbers considering or not considering all of the fators subjective to the race. You know very well what i said, when i said "remco never did the numbers pogacar did". You don't understand that and if you think remco is better than pogacar, you are delusional.

Listen boy, there is nothing wrong with admitting you are wrong. We all make mistakes, no problem at all. Erlaitz, Pico Jano and Gaustatoppen saw w/kg numbers Pogacar is yet to produce ever, those are the facts no matter where you'd try to shift the goalposts to next. Just spare us your anger issues, your keyboard is suffering.

 

[Extinction]

Stop with your BS remco fanboy. Pogacar did better numbers considering or not considering all of the fators subjective to the race. You know very well what i said, when i said "remco never did the numbers pogacar did". You don't understand that and if you think remco is better than pogacar, you are delusional.

Alright now, let's just wait and see. If Valverde isn't to be believed he evidently suffers from senility. Like I said, I'm not betting against Remco, even if that takes nothing from Pogacar, but the legs, as always, will do the talking, not us. And Pogacar may yet prevail. Other than that any catagorical statements are delusional.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Sometimes people like to say nice things. AV got carried away or at least is a little premature. But maybe it was Remco winning the Vuelta easily then following that up by riding off the front to win his rainbow bands? That was incredible.

Yes I think this is a classic example of recency bias coupled with the fact that AV likely weights Worlds and Vuelta more heavily than others might. Seems similar to the discussion on another thread: what is the definition of the best rider? It is generally subjective unless one rider is better at literally everything. There is no way to make an objective case that either Remco or Pogi is objectively better than the other as they had different targets and performed different if related feats.

My opinion is that Pogi is the best rider in the world, though losing the Tour did hurt his case. Remco is exceptional, but I am not convinced he would have beaten a fresh Roglic in the Vuelta. Again, personal opinion.

 

[OlavEH]

Listen boy, there is nothing wrong with admitting you are wrong. We all make mistakes, no problem at all. Erlaitz, Pico Jano and Gaustatoppen saw w/kg numbers Pogacar is yet to produce ever, those are the facts no matter where you'd try to shift the goalposts to next. Just spare us your anger issues, your keyboard is suffering.

I think you know exactly what he means. But are just trying to shut him down by using semantics.

 

[DNP-Old]

I think you know exactly what he means. But are just trying to shut him down by using semantics.

Absolutely I do. I mean, his post was really straight forward, he said it with so much confidence. And he was wrong. That's not my fault.

 

[Extinction]

Yes I think this is a classic example of recency bias coupled with the fact that AV likely weights Worlds and Vuelta more heavily than others might. Seems similar to the discussion on another thread: what is the definition of the best rider? It is generally subjective unless one rider is better at literally everything. There is no way to make an objective case that either Remco or Pogi is objectively better than the other as they had different targets and performed different if related feats.

My opinion is that Pogi is the best rider in the world, though losing the Tour did hurt his case. Remco is exceptional, but I am not convinced he would have beaten a fresh Roglic in the Vuelta. Again, personal opinion.

It is not merely subjective, as historically there are a series of races, GTs and monuments, combined with Worlds (when the course is compatible with those who win both GTs and monuments - Hinault at Sallances, for example), which determine the pecking order. That's just how cycling is, thus when a rider is capable of winning in all three categories, with a particular interest in GTs (since they are the heavyweights) he is deemed the best.

 

[Cookster15]

My opinion is that Pogi is the best rider in the world, though losing the Tour did hurt his case. Remco is exceptional, but I am not convinced he would have beaten a fresh Roglic in the Vuelta. Again, personal opinion.

I tend to agree and still rate Pog higher but whether he retains this in my mind will depend upon next season. There is also conflicting info on Pog. I read somewhere that he thinks he may only have two or three years at his peak? But the other thing is we forget Pog is still very young:

Remco 25 January 2000 (age 22)
Pog 21 September 1998 (age 24)

By comparison, Cadel Evans first rode on the road in 2001 when he was already 24 and won the TdF 10 years later at 34.

 

[Extinction]

In any case, I'd love to know what Remco texted Valverde after the lauding praise.

 

[Big Doopie]

… but the legs, as always, will do the talking, not us.

…wait…

Is that true?

why the hell have I spent so much time filling up the Remco thread then?

are u telling me my life is meaningless?

 

[Extinction]

…wait…

Is that true?

why the hell have I spent so much time filling up the Remco thread then?

are u telling me my life is meaningless?

It's like Chuck Bukowski wrote: "People are strange: they are constantly angered by trivial things, but on a major matter like totally wasting their lives, they hardly seem to notice.”

 

[waku waku]

Clearly Valverde can't live with the fact that Contador has the biggest thread here and has decided to help Remco overtake him faster.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Remco is better than Pogacar in ITT right? And there are many poteta that says ITT is “the race of truth”. So Remco is obviously truly the better rider, right?

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

It is not merely subjective, as historically there are a series of races, GTs and monuments, combined with Worlds (when the course is compatible with those who win both GTs and monuments - Hinault at Sallances, for example), which determine the pecking order. That's just how cycling is, thus when a rider is capable of winning in all three categories, with a particular interest in GTs (since they are the heavyweights) he is deemed the best.

Right, but in this case both Remco and Pogi have proven they can win both GTs and monuments. So if you’re going by the biggest race, Pogi is above Remco no? And Vingo above all? The Tour is the biggest race in the World after all. If you’re talking biggest races, plural, it’s back to being subjective, as all riders don’t follow the same program and rarely does one win them all. Andthank god or they’re be no need for a discussion forum unless you guys just want to sit around and stroke your favorite riders. Oh wait, I’m in the Remco thread…

 

[tobydawq]

Roglic is the best.

The only rider ever to have beaten Pogi by two placings in a Grand Tour.

 

[gregrowlerson]

I thought activity had gone whisper quiet on the forum, until I clicked on this thread....

 

[gregrowlerson]

hard to keep track of what every poster says individually, so I understand.

however, IF you were to look back, you would find many times that I tried to tone down the rhetoric of the “fans” in the hope of a more reasoned debate.

however, I do not deny that I am a fan of the rider.

and, I have to admit that the more ardent “take no prisoners” fans have more often been correct in the end.

so it looks like I cannot catch a break.

i am “vilified” by the detractors for being too biased. And not ardent enough a believer in Remco to the “extreme” fans.

such is often the dilemma of trying to be “reasoned” on a discussion forum. Haha!

Don't worry Big Doopie. Compared to one Primoz Roglic fan, I consider you a Remco hater