Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[frisenfruitig]

What do you guys think about the fact that he shattered those KOM's at Tenerife? I'm curious if he has made progress in climbing since last year's Vuelta. It is often said that riding a GT makes you a stronger rider and at his age it wouldn't be crazy if he still improved in some aspects. So many pros go there every year to train on those same climbs, it's not like the previous best times were by a bunch of nobodies (Bardet, Froome etc).

I might be reading too much into that but it does make me wonder.

 

[Salvarani]

What do you guys think about the fact that he shattered those KOM's at Tenerife? I'm curious if he has made progress in climbing since last year's Vuelta. It is often said that riding a GT makes you a stronger rider and at his age it wouldn't be crazy if he still improved in some aspects. So many pros go there every year to train on those same climbs, it's not like the previous best times were by a bunch of nobodies (Bardet, Froome etc).

I might be reading too much into that but it does make me wonder.

Too many variables.

Like has timing started and ended at the exact same place? Weather conditions, at what difficulty did they take on the climb and so on. Cant read too much into it, more than that he is building his shape towards his bigger targets this season.

 

[Nick2413]

Remco has never lost Liege, Pogacar has

Remco has never lost la Vuelta, Pogacar has

Remco has never lost San Sebastian classic, Pogacar has

Remco has never lost le Tour, pogacar has

Remco is world champion

Food for thought

I’ve never lost any of those races either, although I’m not world champion, so I guess I’m firmly ahead of Pogacar but behind Remco. Fair enough, I’ll take it.

 

[Berniece]

Too many variables.

Like has timing started and ended at the exact same place? Weather conditions, at what difficulty did they take on the climb and so on. Cant read too much into it, more than that he is building his shape towards his bigger targets this season.

Weather conditions, sure but all the rest has no impact on Strava KOM’s

 

[Riek s]

What do you guys think about the fact that he shattered those KOM's at Tenerife? I'm curious if he has made progress in climbing since last year's Vuelta. It is often said that riding a GT makes you a stronger rider and at his age it wouldn't be crazy if he still improved in some aspects. So many pros go there every year to train on those same climbs, it's not like the previous best times were by a bunch of nobodies (Bardet, Froome etc).

I might be reading too much into that but it does make me wonder.

What Salvarani said.

Circumstances, fatigue, goals of that ride (by him and the others who are listed).

Don't know if there are W/kg estimations on it, that might gave an indication on where his is. (but we don't know the effort before/during/...). (FYI: many riders had many records on climbs during their training season and went nowhere when it was for the marbles).

I think the only things is says is that he is training well and seems to be on schedule.
It could be he improves upon last year (Vuelta), that is certainly possible, but not something we can possible derive from those training climbs.

At least he seems to be a lot more consistent uphill compared to last year. (albeit the data points this year are almost non existant... so :shrug

 

[frisenfruitig]

Too many variables.

Like has timing started and ended at the exact same place? Weather conditions, at what difficulty did they take on the climb and so on. Cant read too much into it, more than that he is building his shape towards his bigger targets this season.

Weather is indeed a variable but even then, taking minutes off of a KOM where many top climbers train every year still says something I would think. Even if he went all out he isn't going to be the only one to have done so in all those years. It's not like it's some obscure climb in Columbia.

 

[Nick2413]

Weather is indeed a variable but even then, taking minutes off of a KOM where many top climbers train every year still says something I would think. Even if he went all out he isn't going to be the only one to have done so in all those years. It's not like it's some obscure climb in Columbia.

It’ll be interesting as we continue to have more and more data with things like Strava to see how top climbing times compare from max training efforts compared to race efforts. A max training effort on a big climb when potentially not as fatigued or the earlier part of the ride was quite easy compared to during a GT might give less reliable results. But in general yeah, if he’s crushing KOMs by minutes in a major pro training area that’s pretty impressive. Week 3 of Giro will be most telling though.

 

[Salvarani]

Weather is indeed a variable but even then, taking minutes off of a KOM where many top climbers train every year still says something I would think. Even if he went all out he isn't going to be the only one to have done so in all those years. It's not like it's some obscure climb in Columbia.

Like I also said, we dont know if the timing has changed anything or if it has start and ended at the exact same spot. It could make a big difference, if it has changed.

Could be many other factors involved.

Cant read more into it, more than it could be a good omen and that his shape is building.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Like I also said, we dont know if the timing has changed anything or if it has start and ended at the exact same spot. It could make a big difference, if it has changed.

Could be many other factors involved.

Cant read more into it, more than it could be a good omen and that his shape is building.

That's not how Strava works though, the segments don't just suddenly start and end at a different point. Otherwise there wouldn't really be a point to it. I agree that we can't read too much into it, but there aren't really that many factors involved other than weather and that you don't know what kind of intensity the efforts were.

 

[Andy schleck]

Let's be real here. Surely you mean:

1. Froome
2. Bernal
3. Pogacar
4. Vingegaard
5. Carapaz
6. Hindley, Hart, my grandma
7. Roglic
8. Evenepoel

I included my grandma because if she has not been dead since before i was born, she might as well have been able to win the 2020 Giro.

PS: now i understand why people can make claims about Belgians being nationalistic without moderators taking action. It's because they think everybody discussing a Belgian rider is a Belgian. Or a Belgium if you prefer.

Respect your grandma. He would win the giro without being get dropped by the all mighty Mas.

 

[Salvarani]

That's not how Strava works though, the segments don't just suddenly start and end at a different point. Otherwise there wouldn't really be a point to it. I agree that we can't read too much into it, but there aren't really that many factors involved other than weather and that you don't know what kind of intensity the efforts were.

Isnt gps-based? You dont think it has changed in years ? The start and end-point. It is super-reliable?

This is already getting tedious.

Im not gonna read more into it, more than that it is a good omen and that he is working hard atm.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Isnt gps-based? You dont think it has changed in years ? The start and end-point. It is super-reliable?

This is already getting tedious.

Im not gonna read more into it, more than that it is a good omen and that he is working hard atm.

Well nothing is 100% accurate so I'm sure it won't be accurate up to 1 second but we're talking minutes here. Can't really think of "many other factors". But yeah, it's still just a strava segment. It does make me curious, we'll see next week I guess.

 

[Salvarani]

Well nothing is 100% accurate so I'm sure it won't be accurate up to 1 second but we're talking minutes here. Can't really think of "many other factors". But yeah, it's still just a strava segment. It does make me curious, we'll see next week I guess.

Well, that was the only point I was making... that there are variables that it make it difficult to compare.

And it would be quite a big difference if there has been a few hundred meters change, on steep roads, where the time starts and ends. Not too mentioned all other factors that could be involved.

Yeah, we will see next week. Hoping for a good race, but ideally he would still be a little bit off. Be more ready in time for L-B-L and going into the Giro. Being good in Catalunya, with a close battle, would probably be good from a psychological stand point for him and from a viewing a stand point for us.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Roglic : crashed out
This thead: "This is proof rEmCo is better than Pogacar"

Almost time for your nap, big boy?

What do you guys think about the fact that he shattered those KOM's at Tenerife? I'm curious if he has made progress in climbing since last year's Vuelta. It is often said that riding a GT makes you a stronger rider and at his age it wouldn't be crazy if he still improved in some aspects. So many pros go there every year to train on those same climbs, it's not like the previous best times were by a bunch of nobodies (Bardet, Froome etc).

I might be reading too much into that but it does make me wonder.

Tenerife is known for weather conditions being consistent which is why it is so popular, (storms excluded but i doubt anyone is going cycling in those conditions) with very gentle temperatures in the winter and spring. I doubt weather would be a huge factor, especially since the others didn't all ride on the same day that "might have" had worse conditions.

Timeframe compared to other riders' season goals would be more important. I'd expect better performances in april than in januari, for instance.

Length and intensity of the training ride. In Evenepoel's case, he took the KOM on Teide from a guy who had just descended from the mountain, made a 180 and started the climb, fresh as a daisy. Evenepoel however, had already done a 95km ride, in which he had taken the KOM on a 6km 9% climb from Bardet, by one minute.

KOMpetition also matters imho. Taking a KOM from Bardet is nice, but when Vandenabeele is only 20s slower than Bardet, it makes you think. Taking a KOM where Froome (pre-crash) was top 3 is also nice, but when Vervaeke and Hjorth are the riders in front of Froome...

Two things that stand out, the length/intensity of the training ride of Evenepoel in which he took two major KOMs, and the timedifference by which he took the KOMs. He didn't take them by 5 or 10 seconds. He improved them considerably.

I think he will be better by a considerable margin over his form in UAE. I'd expect him as one of the best climbers in Catalunya, if not the best outright. But these KOMs do not prove he could climb well enough to win the Giro or the Tour at face value.

Isnt gps-based? You dont think it has changed in years ? The start and end-point. It is super-reliable?

They are gps coordinates. It could differ a fraction of a second. Maybe (with inferior equipment) it could differ a second or two. Not 2 minutes, which is the time by which he took the KOM on Teide.

 

[Berflamand]

Those KOM's look impressive but I'm more intrigued by the fact he uploaded all his rides to Strava except for 2 or 3 days which makes me think these efforts were not all-out efforts and he's hiding his all-out tests.

 

[red_flanders]

There are races for a reason.

Training is training. His times are impressive and a good indication of form and effort. He’s clearly a top rider in good shape training hard. Drawing conclusions beyond that, absent competitors, is pointless.

Could it indicate more? Definitely. He could realistically be climbing better than anyone in the world right now. Or not. I hope he is, it would be awesome to see.

In races.

 

[Netserk]

Think deep down some know how good Remco is, and they hate him for it. Will find anyone who has even the slightest chance of dethroning him

Unlike Pogi, who we know is crap. Great argument.

 

[houtdffan]

Unlike Pogi, who we know is crap. Great argument.

where do you get that sentiment. I explicitly stated Remco and Pog are the two alpha males

 

[Elos Anjos]

where do you get that sentiment. I explicitly stated Remco and Pog are the two alpha males

The level in this thread is going down the drain. Might as well put some Teletubbies video.

 

[red_flanders]

The level in this thread is going down the drain. Might as well put some Teletubbies video.

Maybe a fair point but...way to raise the level.

 

[Netserk]

What do you guys think about the fact that he shattered those KOM's at Tenerife?

Contador did 7.44 W/kg for 20 minutes before the 2014 Tour in training. Of course, translating that to race relevant numbers is not straightforward.

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[Netserk]

where do you get that sentiment. I explicitly stated Remco and Pog are the two alpha males

Did you even read what you responded to?

Scenario 1:

Remco and Rog are attacking each other constantly during last years Vuelta on some fictional mountain stage. Just before the final MTF Remco looks at the camera, smiles and pretends to rev an engine.

He then gets dropped thoroughly by Rog on the climb and loses the Vuelta.

Scenario 2:

On a climb in Catalunya, Rog attacks. Remco follows and while sitting on Rog’s wheel, turns to the camera and smiles to show how easy he is following Rog. He then drops Rog.

What would be the reaction?

I criticized Remco’s shoulder brush off when he was only barely out of his teens. But even that arrogant (though misinterpreted) gesture pales in comparison to some of the things Pog has done. And yet the reaction it diametrically opposite.

 

[Red Rick]

Contador did 7.44 W/kg for 20 minutes before the 2014 Tour in training. Of course, translating that to race relevant numbers is not straightforward.

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Pogacar broke Stelvia and Gavia records before the last Tour de France according to his trainer.

 

[houtdffan]

Did you even read what you responded to?

Not this?

They are basically the same age and Pogačar is the most complete Racer on the planet. He's the big thing now and can be the next big thing for years. Winning 2 TdF, podium Vuelta, winning 1 week long Races and monuments. Missing world title yet. Remco is not on his level. He barely won Vuelta against an injured guy that crashes a lot.

I'll quote James Hunt, as his quote is appropriate to your post

"All I'll say to that is bull sh*t"

I take it you missed Remco schooling Pog at the worlds.

Those like you are those who I was mentioning, looking for anyone to overshadow an obviously superior athlete

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Contador did 7.44 W/kg for 20 minutes before the 2014 Tour in training. Of course, translating that to race relevant numbers is not straightforward.

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Unbelievable number! I'm curious what was his vertical speed, then we would know how reliable the data was (24+ kph combined with the power suggests a climb of about 8% and a ridiculous VAM of about 2000 m/h).