Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

There is no point in taking what Lefevere said too seriously at this moment. He changed his story 3 times in as many days. First it was way too soon to say anything and we needed to wait for Evenepoel to get a medical check up. Less than 24hrs later, there was "If Remco won't do the Tour unless he really wants to himself" and finally "he won't ride Tour nor Vuelta." Yet they snatched Soudal as a leadsponsor, and Soudal wanted to become more high profile than was possible at Lotto, and they wanted to get GT results. And now we're supposed to believe Evenepoel's 2023 GT bid will be 9 days? I don't buy it, it was just his way of telling the press to funk off.

I don’t disagree with us. I don't think you’ll find a Roglic fan who doesn’t think Remco is an attacking rider, or even that Remco doesn’t have a history of more frequent long range attacks. To me that seems obvious truth. I also think Roglic was way off on the Fred Wright thing.

But Roglic has many, many wins, and he has attacked with panache many times. He has also smartly (and IMO misguidedly) ridden defensively at times and been rewarded (and punished) as a result. But at times Remco fans come across as thinking that Remco is god tier and Roglic a close to a puffed up domestique, fair or not.

I don't think there are many Evenepoel fans who act like Roglic is close to a puffed up domestique. And i think if you want to go by that hyperbole, the same can be said of some Roglic fans.

 

[Rackham]

The next few weeks will be crucial. If there is indeed no tour or vuelta for Remco in 2023, there are forces at work that are not alligned with his goals and his GT potential. I fear we will see more excuses in the future. SQS is a classics team by nature and Remco seems to be an exceptional fit for a broad range of them. I hope he can still steer SQS in the right direction or conclude and look for a team that supports him properly.

Maybe it's because he's 23 years old & Lefevere doesn't want to scorch him aka see him suffer a burnout.

I mean notwithstanding anything going on behind the scenes & stuff we don't know about, the most simple explanation can also be... the correct one?

It just seems like because there's a few child prodigies running amok at the top of pro cycling in recent years (namely one called Pogacar) everyone expects Evenepoel to deliver the same consistent GT success at the same age. I read a recent interview of Koen Bouwman who noted how riders at a high level at the age of 18 (he cited Evenepoel & Pogacar) won't have careers which last until they're 38 years old. He said he was glad he was able to build his own career up quietly by comparison.

It's just food for thought.

 

[Riek s]

Maybe it's because he's 23 years old & Lefevere doesn't want to scorch him aka see him suffer a burnout.

I mean notwithstanding anything going on behind the scenes & stuff we don't know about, the most simple explanation can also be... the correct one?

It just seems like because there's a few child prodigies running amok at the top of pro cycling in recent years (namely one called Pogacar) everyone expects Evenepoel to deliver the same consistent GT success at the same age. I read a recent interview of Koen Bouwman who noted how riders at a high level at the age of 18 (he cited Evenepoel & Pogacar) won't have careers which last until they're 38 years old. He said he was glad he was able to build his own career up quietly by comparison.

It's just food for thought.

That is why Remco started slow in the pro peleton and was not riding a lot of WT stage races. (one of the reasons he is lacking wins in them).
Whereas Pog and Ayuso were doing the Vuelta in there first year?

 

[Salvarani]

That is why Remco started slow in the pro peleton and was not riding a lot of WT stage races. (one of the reasons he is lacking wins in them).
Whereas Pog and Ayuso were doing the Vuelta in there first year?

Yes, that must be one of the reasons he lacks wins in them.

 

[KZD]

Maybe it's because he's 23 years old & Lefevere doesn't want to scorch him aka see him suffer a burnout.

I mean notwithstanding anything going on behind the scenes & stuff we don't know about, the most simple explanation can also be... the correct one?

It just seems like because there's a few child prodigies running amok at the top of pro cycling in recent years (namely one called Pogacar) everyone expects Evenepoel to deliver the same consistent GT success at the same age. I read a recent interview of Koen Bouwman who noted how riders at a high level at the age of 18 (he cited Evenepoel & Pogacar) won't have careers which last until they're 38 years old. He said he was glad he was able to build his own career up quietly by comparison.

It's just food for thought.

I really think that this argument that Pogačar or Remco are not going to have long careers just because they turned pros at a young age is just a coping mechanism that some riders find to give them some hope for their future. Most riders don't race until they are 38 anyway and if we look at Pogačar's calendar last seasons he has been racing around 55-60 days which is far from extreme and the only difference last year for your average GC rider is he raced two cobbled classics and MSR instead of Itzulia and he only turned pro at 20 anyway.

Remco started at 19 but he had to make a break due to his Lombardia crash and even last year ehen he raced 67 days some of those were in shorter stages at a lower level. This is why I think he should race another Grand Tour this season because without it, he will probably not even reach 50 race days this season.

If there was a strong correlation between racing days and longevity, I don't think Valverde would have been able to reach 42 while still winning races and doing 80 race days almost every year.

 

[peterfin]

I really think that this argument that Pogačar or Remco are not going to have long careers just because they turned pros at a young age is just a coping mechanism that some riders find to give them some hope for their future. Most riders don't race until they are 38 anyway and if we look at Pogačar's calendar last seasons he has been racing around 55-60 days which is far from extreme and the only difference last year for your average GC rider is he raced two cobbled classics and MSR instead of Itzulia and he only turned pro at 20 anyway.

Remco started at 19 but he had to make a break due to his Lombardia crash and even last year ehen he raced 67 days some of those were in shorter stages at a lower level. This is why I think he should race another Grand Tour this season because without it, he will probably not even reach 50 race days this season.

If there was a strong correlation between racing days and longevity, I don't think Valverde would have been able to reach 42 while still winning races and doing 80 race days almost every year.

Indeed. He doesn't race too much. Also, it's his 4th year as a pro. He has shown the physical and mental fortitude that is needed to have a program that includes the tour or a 2nd GT if he can't finish the first one. He does need good coaching and support to give him the least physical and mental strain. Maybe that's the real issue with SQS.

 

[Red Rick]

Yes, that must be one of the reasons he lacks wins in them.

Took him longer to start winning WT stage races and GTs than to win one day races and Belgium style stage races. Racing smaller races made sense when he didn't win the big ones. Now it doesn't make sense anymore.

I guess we're supposed to assume the least dumb option right now, which is that Lefevere is just being Lefevere and talking ***. Maybe they will pretend to decide to do Vuelta last minute to somewhat sandbag and pretend he shouldn't be the favorite or whatever after hitting the WC.

Could just be the scheduling will be fairly logical from here but that the media game around it will just be insane.

 

[Salvarani]

Took him longer to start winning WT stage races and GTs than to win one day races and Belgium style stage races. Racing smaller races made sense when he didn't win the big ones. Now it doesn't make sense anymore.

I guess we're supposed to assume the least dumb option right now, which is that Lefevere is just being Lefevere and talking ***. Maybe they will pretend to decide to do Vuelta last minute to somewhat sandbag and pretend he shouldn't be the favorite or whatever after hitting the WC.

Could just be the scheduling will be fairly logical from here but that the media game around it will just be insane.

The thing that matters for the future... is his climbing, I believe. It has always been the main thing that he needs to improve on to win the biggest races.

He has done some great performances one some MTFs in smaller races. He of course won the Vuelta but, and this is not to knock him, he wasnt really challenged except for an Enric Mas who found his best form during the race.

Remco also came into that race in great form and hit it out the park. Like he presumably was planning to do in the first week of the Giro here as well and even though he still was in the lead... it was probably not by as much as they had calculated on. It could be because of the crashes, sickness or other reasons. It could all be speculated on, but thats probably been discussed enough by this point.

Lets see what happens for the rest of the season, depending on where he goes. Seems to be just a lot of talk atm from different people.

However, next year I would really like to see him start with Valenciana again. Followed by Andalucia (please no Algarve or UAE) and then P-N or T-A. Maybe Catalunya again and prep for the Ardennes, where he should be racking up wins for years to come. He is tailor-made for those races. Then rest/training period before doing Suisse or Dauphine ahead of the Tour.

Thats what I would like to see and would be the ultimate test to see how high his ceiling could be. Otherwise they can keep going with the same approach with smaller races and peak for the Ardennes. When it comes to GT-racing try to take as much time in the ITTs and early stages of the races, when he is fresh and in great form from the beginning. Try to hang on and defend the lead, with a strong team, towards the end of the race. It could work and yield in another GT-win in the future but another Vuelta is more likely in my opinion, if that is the case.

He is also just 23... so there could still be room to improve but maybe that comes at a cost of something else? Like one- day races or ITTs. Who knows, there sure is some pressure on the kid. I hope he can cope with it and bounce back.

 

[Blanco]

That is why Remco started slow in the pro peleton and was not riding a lot of WT stage races. (one of the reasons he is lacking wins in them).
Whereas Pog and Ayuso were doing the Vuelta in there first year?

He did 13 of them (including GT's), that's not a small number.

 

[Riek s]

He did 13 of them (including GT's), that's not a small number.

over 5 years.

His first year:
-UAE Tour
-Tour of Turkey
-Tour of Romandië

(2nd year -- Covid - tour of pologne - crash)


For example 1st year of:

Ayuso:
- Catalunya
- Tour de Romandie
- Criterium Dauphine
- Vuelta (GT)

Pogacar:
- down under
-Itzulia
-Amgent tour of CAli
-Vuelta (GT)

 

[Blanco]

over 5 years.

His first year:
-UAE Tour
-Tour of Turkey
-Tour of Romandië

(2nd year -- Covid - tour of pologne - crash)


For example 1st year of:

Ayuso:
- Catalunya
- Tour de Romandie
- Criterium Dauphine
- Vuelta (GT)

Pogacar:
- down under
-Itzulia
-Amgent tour of CAli
-Vuelta (GT)

Pogacar did 15 over 5 years, not a big difference.
Big difference in wins though...

 

[Riek s]

Pogacar did 15 over 5 years, not a big difference.
Big difference in wins though...

and? what does the wins of Pog have to do with Remco?

the talk was about the carreer of the youngsters. And I pointed out that Remco started slow in terms of world tour races.
As an example I gave other youngsters who were doing Vuelta from the get go.
What has Pog results got anything to do with this?

 

[SHAD0W93]

Yawn. So tiring to argue with the likes of you. You're are of your depth. Or you can't read a simple statement.

The myth is the gap between what Evenepoel actually delivers and what his fans expect. If he fails to deliver - namely, a GT this year - the logic proper to a cult-like fan base is to enhance and enlarge a large spectra of "what if" Remco was still in the Giro or "what if" Remco goes to the Tour or "what if" Remco goes to the Vuelta followed by his more than "obvious" wins.

It's just a *** coping mechanism for someone who is griefing. Like you.

Just like Roglic fans shifting the blame elsewhere with crashes, teams conspiring against him, or riders crashing into him?

All we heard from Roglic fans at the Vuelta last year was too many crashes and Wright purposely took Roglic out. While they accused Evenepoel of faking a flat tire or having Covid (not all fans here or stated seriously but elsewhere) and praise the time gained after Evenepoel crashes. Both fans have been the same side of the coin, they just ignore it.

 

[Netserk]

Both fans have been the same side of the coin, they just ignore it.

So you think @Logic-is-your-friend and @CyclistAbi are equivalent?

 

[SHAD0W93]

So you think @Logic-is-your-friend and @CyclistAbi are equivalent?

In some ways, in others not even close.

 

[Blanco]

and? what does the wins of Pog have to do with Remco?

the talk was about the carreer of the youngsters. And I pointed out that Remco started slow in terms of world tour races.
As an example I gave other youngsters who were doing Vuelta from the get go.
What has Pog results got anything to do with this?

You said Remco started slow in terms of WT stage races, hence why he is lacking wins in them.
I pointed out that the number of that races is not much different to Pogacar, who by the way is not lacking wins in them.
So your reason for Remco's lack of wins in that kind of races is not valid enough.
Is it clear now?

 

[Riek s]

You said Remco started slow in terms of WT stage races, hence why he is lacking wins in them.
I pointed out that the number of that races is not much different to Pogacar, who by the way is not lacking wins in them.
So your reason for Remco's lack of wins in that kind of races is not valid enough.
Is it clear now?

no i said:

That is why Remco started slow in the pro peleton and was not riding a lot of WT stage races. (one of the reasons he is lacking wins in them).
Whereas Pog and Ayuso were doing the Vuelta in there first year?

(one of the reasons he is lacking wins in them).

(one of

don't omit words to suit your bias, they have a meaning.

and yes he needed 3 years to participate in 5 WT stage races. Ayuso/Pog did 4 in the first year. So he effectively and by all means and measure did less WT stage races when he started)
(where you don't participate you cannot win)

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Just like Roglic fans shifting the blame elsewhere with crashes, teams conspiring against him, or riders crashing into him?

All we heard from Roglic fans at the Vuelta last year was too many crashes and Wright purposely took Roglic out. While they accused Evenepoel of faking a flat tire or having Covid (not all fans here or stated seriously but elsewhere) and praise the time gained after Evenepoel crashes. Both fans have been the same side of the coin, they just ignore it.

So you think @Logic-is-your-friend and @CyclistAbi are equivalent?

In some ways, in others not even close.

For “Roglic” / “Remco” fans, insert [the most extreme, emotionally guided]. I think most were embarrassed by the FW situation but fairly argued that he had had a terrible build up to the Vuelta , fractured vertebrae, 47th dislocated shoulder, weeks of the bike, and that isn’t valid, but for some reason Remco can’t recover from Covid and ride another GT? Also, it’s somewhat a shame that this forum is so divided, Roglic or Remco, I prefer Roglic but quite like Remco.

 

[Riek s]

For “Roglic” / “Remco” fans, insert [the most extreme, emotionally guided]. I think most were embarrassed by the FW situation but fairly argued that he had had a terrible build up to the Vuelta , fractured vertebrae, 47th dislocated shoulder, weeks of the bike, and that isn’t valid, but for some reason Remco can’t recover from Covid and ride another GT? Also, it’s somewhat a shame that this forum is so divided, Roglic or Remco, I prefer Roglic but quite like Remco.

I'm sorry, but everyone is bitching about Remco not riding another GT on this forum . We are a few steps away to take up pitchforks

 

[SHAD0W93]

but for some reason Remco can’t recover from Covid and ride another GT?

Evenepoel/PL are just waiting for Tour of California to come back so he can make it the official 4th Grand Tour.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

For “Roglic” / “Remco” fans, insert [the most extreme, emotionally guided]. I think most were embarrassed by the FW situation but fairly argued that he had had a terrible build up to the Vuelta , fractured vertebrae, 47th dislocated shoulder, weeks of the bike, and that isn’t valid, but for some reason Remco can’t recover from Covid and ride another GT? Also, it’s somewhat a shame that this forum is so divided, Roglic or Remco, I prefer Roglic but quite like Remco.

It's like you haven't been reading this topic and just make assumptions to fit your narrative. Basically everyone here is saying Evenepoel should ride another GT.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Unless he doesn't recover well from COVID and his giro form is totally gone I don't see why he shouldn't just try to go for the TDF. Even if he does it next year, there will always be pressure and high expectations. Might as well just get it over with and give it a go, it will be a good learning experience either way.

You don't have that many chances to ride the TDF in your prime, it would be a shame to waste that by being overprotective. When he was barely recovered from his crash in Lombardia they couldn't wait to throw him to the lions in the Giro but now it seems they have swung the other way.

 

[peterfin]

It's clear that almost everybody here wants him to do another GT this year and I think most of us would like to see him in the tour. I think he wants it as well. According to Lefevre, Remco himself insisted to ride the 2021 giro. Similarly, I am pretty sure that Remco has a lot of eagerness to start the tour. The challenge is much more appealing than the potential stress. He worked a lot to be in top shape for the giro and 2022 showed him that he can extend that shape for months. However, I think he is now much more inclined to follow his trainer and coaches as recent history showed him that it worked. He is also a strong team player and may feel bad about distupting the tour team. So if Lefevre now dictates that he won't do the tour or vuelta, I fear that this will be the path forward, regardless of Remco's own eagerness.

 

[LookProGoSlow]

Imagine that, showing off your Rainbow bands in the Tour. Once in a lifetime opportunity.

 

[Blanco]

no i said:







don't omit words to suit your bias, they have a meaning.

and yes he needed 3 years to participate in 5 WT stage races. Ayuso/Pog did 4 in the first year. So he effectively and by all means and measure did less WT stage races when he started)
(where you don't participate you cannot win)

So, I'm curious, what you think are the other reasons for the lack of WT stage wins?
(Cause this one is not good enough).