Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[AmRacer]

Remco has yet even to ride the Tour, whereas Vinge was denied a chance to win the Vuelta.

You don't say!

 

[Extinction]

You don't say!

I do! And I also say Remco on Soudal doesn't have a chance at the Tour.

 

[red_flanders]

...

Remco idem! Brought my cancelled comment into the context of this thread, but let the censors have their day!

I reported it, so give the mods a break. There's a forum rule against off-topic posting for a reason. It's tiresome for anyone reading the topic for...the topic.

 

[Berniece]

You're confusing. WVA is perfectly capable of winning Paris-Roubaix but that of course doesn't mean he will.
What MVDP and others like Merckx, if I'm not mistaken, stated is that Pogi is capable of winning all monuments, not that he will manage to do it.

Oh I can see the same happening for WVA, MVDP and Evenepoel

 

[Elos Anjos]

Oh I can see the same happening for WVA, MVDP and Evenepoel

I can't see how MDVP and WVA win Il Lombardia. Evenpoel perhaps.
Or, for that matter, how Remco is already declared a potential winner of RVV and Paris-Roubaix without racing them.

 

[Froome]

You're only as good as you're last Grand Bouclé baby. When MVP can challenge for the Tour, then we can talk. Overall means climbing and TT power and, most importantly, you are not allowed to have a bad day in three weeks. The classics riders are children in comparison. I think it's fairly clear that being exceptionally good on one day, isn't the same as being capable of winning a three week bike race. The biggest freak is thus the Tour winner, because it's the biggest bicycle race in the world, but this is history, so I don't need to explain that. So if folks want to insist Pogacar is the biggest freak out there, when he gets his teeth kicked out at the Tour by Vingegaard, go ahead, but then there is reality.

I think pogacar and vingegaard are two big freaks.
Pogacar is a freak because he can do things like beat MVDP on flandres, and Vingegaard is a big freak because he's got pogacar number and can dominate him in the Tour.

 

[Panda Claws]

Everyone please just stay on-topic. I had to scroll to find non-meta posts.

 

[Berniece]

I can't see how MDVP and WVA win Il Lombardia. Evenpoel perhaps.
Or, for that matter, how Remco is already declared a potential winner of RVV and Paris-Roubaix without racing them.

WVA in TDF form can win Il Lombardia but only if it's not as hard as this year. He needs the right conditions, just like Pogacar can win Roubaix if the right riders aren't racing or are out of luck.

Remco has a huge engine, he mostly need to work on positioning and technique. The rest is already there.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

I can't see how MDVP and WVA win Il Lombardia. Evenpoel perhaps.
Or, for that matter, how Remco is already declared a potential winner of RVV and Paris-Roubaix without racing them.

On a course like this year’s, WVA can mount a serious challenge in Lombardia. Of course, the route isn’t the same every year, but it’s not hard to imagine him contending.

 

[Berflamand]

Remco's big goals last season:

• LBL - 1st
• CSS - 1st
• Vuelta - 1st
• Worlds - 1st

Remco's big goals this season:

• LBL - 1st
• Giro - pending
• Worlds TT - pending
• CSS - pending
• Lombardia - pending

As a recap of Remco's season here are the results in his big goals this year:

• LBL - 1st
• Giro - DNF
• Worlds TT - 1st
• CSS - 1st
• Lombardia - 9th

Additional big goal after the disappointment of the Giro:

• Vuelta - 12th

Another great season and impressive hit rate but it still is a little bit worse than last year when he literally won all of his major targets.

Next to his 13 victories this year he also has 12 second places (which is the most of any rider, Ganna and Kooij follow at 10 and WvA at 8).

It does feel like the season could have been even better especially if he didn't catch Covid in the Giro.

Excited to see what next year has in store and what his big goals will be this time. The biggest one will obviously be the TdF but I'm mostly curious to see if he'll also target MSR and/or RVV next to LBL. The Olympics and the Worlds in Zürich also offer nice challenges.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Evenepoel saying he'll have to work hard this winter. Work hard ....on his time trial.


"The Belgian [...] admitted he will be alive to the threat of Tarling's talent come time trials in the future.

"That will keep me sharp and awake. If I want to beat Tarling or [Filippo] Ganna in the future, it will be in the details," said Evenepoel to Het Laatste Nieuws. "These are men with real power. I will have to work hard this winter to make progress."

 

[Oldermanish]

I do! And I also say Remco on Soudal doesn't have a chance at the Tour.

Remco has a chance to ride the Tour; first things first. By the way; if Vingo had been given the green light I think Primoz would have had a say in the overall podium realignment.

 

[Oldermanish]

Yes, but the same can be said for many TTers. They were not there or were but not with the best numbers.
I recommend also a bit more humility regarding who's writing nonsense.

Remco had to go as the WC. I'm sure he was paid well but honestly couldn't re-prep for another serious effort. Don't blame him a bit.

 

[Blanco]

As a recap of Remco's season here are the results in his big goals this year:

• LBL - 1st
• Giro - DNF
• Worlds TT - 1st
• CSS - 1st
• Lombardia - 9th

Additional big goal after the disappointment of the Giro:

• Vuelta - 12th

Another great season and impressive hit rate but it still is a little bit worse than last year when he literally won all of his major targets.

Next to his 13 victories this year he also has 12 second places (which is the most of any rider, Ganna and Kooij follow at 10 and WvA at 8).

It does feel like the season could have been even better especially if he didn't catch Covid in the Giro.

Excited to see what next year has in store and what his big goals will be this time. The biggest one will obviously be the TdF but I'm mostly curious to see if he'll also target MSR and/or RVV next to LBL. The Olympics and the Worlds in Zürich also offer nice challenges.

Who the hell has Clasica San Sebastian as a big goal?!

 

[Berniece]

Who the hell has Clasica San Sebastian as a big goal?!

Someone that loves the region, and the race. Probably also emotional for him since he won there at the age of 19

 

[Red Rick]

Not sure why Evenepoel puts so much emphasis on the ITT in an interview right now, but I can only imagine it's because of the Olympics.

If he does the Tour I think he has a better shot at the road race than the ITT.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Not sure why Evenepoel puts so much emphasis on the ITT in an interview right now, but I can only imagine it's because of the Olympics.

If he does the Tour I think he has a better shot at the road race than the ITT.

it's likely because he wants to stay #1

doesn't seem to want to choose between GC (more focus on climbing) and TT

 

[houtdffan]

Not sure why Evenepoel puts so much emphasis on the ITT in an interview right now, but I can only imagine it's because of the Olympics.

If he does the Tour I think he has a better shot at the road race than the ITT.

or he saw the giro route

 

[Berniece]

Not sure why Evenepoel puts so much emphasis on the ITT in an interview right now, but I can only imagine it's because of the Olympics.

If he does the Tour I think he has a better shot at the road race than the ITT.

Because it was after an ITT

 

[Extinction]

Remco has a chance to ride the Tour; first things first. By the way; if Vingo had been given the green light I think Primoz would have had a say in the overall podium realignment.

I know he is riding the Tour in 2024, but I meant doesn't have a chance on Soudal to win it (for as long as he remains on the team). As for the what ifs of the last Vuelta, it's not possible to say, however, Roglic would surely have tried to drop Vingegaard, but whether or not he could have remains pure conjecture. Although Vingegaard was not ideally prepped for the Spanish GT, while Roglic was or thereabouts, so perheps he could have. At any rate, I don't see Roglic doing so next year at the Tour, when both prepare their season around it.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

T

This is such a BS response, I don't even know where to begin. Alaphilippe wins 22 Liege? Really? Well he'd have had to keep up with Evenepoel when he attacked, and he still would have attacked, but I don't see him doing so (Nibali said Remco went 3 times as fast as everyone else). The 2021 Giro didn't have an adverse effect? Many said it was a foolish bet, it was, and the rest of his season suffered as a result (after already losing 6 months because of the crash). Pogacar is currently the best one day racer in the world, not the best GT racer in the world. Until he gets his throne back, if he can, Vingegaard is king. This year's Giro was a debacle, because of Covid and then Soudal and he expected to defend his Vuelta title after having gone all-in for Worlds ITT and ride the RR. It was too much, especially going up against Jumbo-Visma, who focussed only on winning a record third GT in one year. Remco gets beaten when riders are better, but he and his team are guilty of imprudent decision making, poor planning, with bad luck striking at the wrong time. It happens to other riders too, but there seems to be a pattern that's not beneficial. He also crashed twice in week one at the last Giro, before getting sick. It's difficult to win, or even maximize your potential, under such circumstances. He must prove himself against Vingegaard, Pogacar and Roglic at the Tour, although on Quickstep I don't see him succeeding. Maybe on another team, but it's looking as if Remco shouldn't have signed on for such a long term at Lefebvre's outfit. No way this team can win the Tour, at least under it's current make-up. If Remco, however, has a good run-up to the Tour, doesn't have a major setback in week one, we will see if he is a potential yellow jersey winner or not. But so far, a final verdict is impossible to make.

The BS response is yours. But don't worry, I still know where to begin. At the start:

Alaphilippe wins 22 Liege? Really? Well he'd have had to keep up with Evenepoel when he attacked, and he still would have attacked, but I don't see him doing so (Nibali said Remco went 3 times as fast as everyone else).

Really. IF you accept the premise of the post I was reacting to, which was Remco winning the 2020 Giro, then Alaphilippe winning Liège 22 is certainly less of a stretch. And as I said before, how Alaphilippe's results dropped off after his LBL crash is incredible. The Alaphilippe we saw in 23 winning Liège 22 is a huge stretch, yes, the one before his crash not.

The 2021 Giro didn't have an adverse effect? Many said it was a foolish bet, it was, and the rest of his season suffered as a result (after already losing 6 months because of the crash).

No, it had a positive effect on his Vuelta 22. Many actually said he was going to win it here, it's hindsight that it was a foolish bet. He gained experience, unlike Pogacar he never even raced Avenir, which is not 3 weeks, but at least gives you 10 days experience. As for the rest of the season? He won left and right, Belgium, Denmark, Bruxelles. Dominated the EC with Colbrelli in his wheel, so Sonny won it. His season 21 actually was perfectly fine. Would NOT riding the Giro have made a major difference? I don't think so. After crashing out he was back winning almost immediately, Belgium. Olympics? WC? Lombardia? There was this crash 12 months earlier, which indeed did hamper his preparation. Despite that he came back strong, but maybe simply didn't have the legs for the long races with A-class opponents (He did well in the Giro vs A-class opponents though) Plus, some of his fans here, don't know if you, after the WC were convinced that Remco could have won that, if Belgium had just given him a co-leadership role. Which is it? Again, he beneifited from starting that Giro in the long term, while in the short term the effect was negligable. Had he waited for Belgium for the comeback, I don't think anything would have changed.
It clearly hurt his fans though. Seeing him start and not win. It's like GP des Nations last weekend. He shouldn't have started, after he arrived second. Why not. The one week longer in training didn't hurt him. Starting there shows his hunger for victories, a good trait, not a bad one. But it seems to have hurt some of his fans, that he started and didn't win.

Pogacar is currently the best one day racer in the world, not the best GT racer in the world.

And I wasn't restricting it to a speciality. But saying he's the best racer. Period. But ok, the discussion you had following pissed some of, so let's drop this. But have to say one thing: You can argue that Vingegaard is the best. But when you start posting stuff like this:

Nah, Pog's got explosivity, but not the necessary three-week staying power.

thus not arguing about Vingegaards strength, but claiming some weakness, diminishing Pogacar's accomplishments, results and talent, you lost the argument already.

his year's Giro was a debacle, because of Covid and then Soudal and he expected to defend his Vuelta title after having gone all-in for Worlds ITT and ride the RR. It was too much, especially going up against Jumbo-Visma, who focussed only on winning a record third GT in one year.

This one is fantastic. Giro, Covid, yes. The especially going up against Jumbo.. hihi, that's a joke right. He didn't go up against Jumbo. He simply collapsed on the queen stage. It didn't matter that Vingegaard, Roglic and Kuss were among the 60+ riders who dropped him, he wouldn't have won this Vuelta without Jumbo either. It's a nice story, he went up against the dominating team of the year and was beaten. It's just not what actually happened. And of course they focussed on winning the GC in the Vuelta. And stages too. What else should they focus on? Or you meant the whole season? Well, Tirreno, Paris Nice (where Vingegaard failed) Catalunya, Pais Vasco, Dauphiné, doesn't sound too shabby really. Winning that without focussing on it, impressive even. Plus I heard rumours that they actually focused on classics too as a team, just that Van Aert didn't deliver in the monuments. They did well enough in the other races though..

Remco gets beaten when riders are better, but he and his team are guilty of imprudent decision making, poor planning, with bad luck striking at the wrong time. It happens to other riders too, but there seems to be a pattern that's not beneficial.

Well, true, other riders have bad luck striking at the right time and in their cases it's a pattern that's beneficial... Dude, you even read what you write?

Yes, Remco had the Lombardia crash and bad luck with Covid.
The problem here is that some of you guys are so focused on Remco, and Remco only, that in the end you lose sight of what happens to other riders. See Alaphilippe crash in Liège, which made Remco's job much easier. Now he was the one and only leader. Or if you don't like Alaphilippe finally winning Liège, how about Pogacar not starting in 22? Crashing out in 23? What about Roglic and the Vuelta 22? He clearly wasn't at his best (no, when he crashed out he had already lost, he wasn't going to get back any time, or if, minimal in the remaining lulu-stages), after his TdF crash. A normal Roglic simply doesn't lose that amount of time to Mas in the first week . But in the end, it doesn't matter. Remco could only beat those that were there, that's what he did, he won, that's it. But, the same counts for all the bad luck strangely striking at the wrong time which surprisingly is not a beneficial pattern for Remco. He crashes he's out, if if if doesn't count. Every win by every rider can be called into question if we start arguing how others had some problem. Pogacar would have won the Tour if he didn't break his wrist. Froome would have won the Tour 19+20 without his crash. and and and. At some point it's ok to accept reality without having to claim that Remco's Lombardia crash has cost him 3 years now....

Bad planning, whatever, that's just what we hear each time when he doesnt' win. What should be changed? Can't remember anybody saying that maybe he should have skipped San Sebastian to be there 100% for the Vuelta. Ah, he won that, so can't be skipped. So it's just the Vuelta that shouldn't have been ridden? Or what exactly was the bad planning 23? 22? 21? For me his program should include RVV... but in the end actually Soudal and Remco have done quite well with their program. Twice LBL, World Champion, 3 times San Sebastian

No way this team can win the Tour, at least under it's current make-up. If Remco, however, has a good run-up to the Tour, doesn't have a major setback in week one, we will see if he is a potential yellow jersey winner or not. But so far, a final verdict is impossible to make.

The team doesn't need to win the Tour, Remco has to. Cycling is an individual sport, raced in teams. Pogacar won 20 basically without a team. He didn't need one, Jumbo controlled for Roglic. Same will happen in 24, the race will be controlled. And in the end Remco has to follow just one rider, Vingegaard. Now if Pogacar goes and Vingegaard can't follow, Remco feels he has it, ok, go after Pogacar, but otherwise the plan is exceedingly simple. Follow Jonas Vingegaard. He doesn't need Arensman-Thomas-Rodriguez pacing him up mountains. (Actually when in trouble he almost seems to do better without pacemaker, riding his rhythm until he finds his leg, instead of trying to follow the rythm of the guy ahead. Now if he wins the Tour 24, then yes, he will need a much stronger team for 25. But for 24? What he has, plus the additon of Landa is already much better than what Pogacar had 20.

 

[Lequack]

Social media influencer Remco has a new video

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrVGCtpJyzI

 

[Panda Claws]

Really. IF you accept the premise of the post I was reacting to, which was Remco winning the 2020 Giro, then Alaphilippe winning Liège 22 is certainly less of a stretch. And as I said before, how Alaphilippe's results dropped off after his LBL crash is incredible. The Alaphilippe we saw in 23 winning Liège 22 is a huge stretch, yes, the one before his crash not.

Alaphilippe was not particularly impressive in 2022 before LBL. He wasn't bad for sure but he also was 5" behind in FW which suited him very well.
In better years than 2022 Alaphilippe was also already clobbered by Fuglsang on the more difficult climbs of LBL.

Is it impossible that he could have won LBL 2022? I guess not. But you'd have to assume that he was at least 2nd strongest of the entire field that day and nothing pointed towards that.

Think of Evenepoel's chances at Giro 2023 what you will though. He dropped off too soon to really get into what his chances would have been. It's hard to look past the Vuelta 2022 winner in seemingly even better form I would say.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

The BS response is yours. But don't worry, I still know where to begin. At the start:


Really. IF you accept the premise of the post I was reacting to, which was Remco winning the 2020 Giro, then Alaphilippe winning Liège 22 is certainly less of a stretch. And as I said before, how Alaphilippe's results dropped off after his LBL crash is incredible. The Alaphilippe we saw in 23 winning Liège 22 is a huge stretch, yes, the one before his crash not.


No, it had a positive effect on his Vuelta 22. Many actually said he was going to win it here, it's hindsight that it was a foolish bet. He gained experience, unlike Pogacar he never even raced Avenir, which is not 3 weeks, but at least gives you 10 days experience. As for the rest of the season? He won left and right, Belgium, Denmark, Bruxelles. Dominated the EC with Colbrelli in his wheel, so Sonny won it. His season 21 actually was perfectly fine. Would NOT riding the Giro have made a major difference? I don't think so. After crashing out he was back winning almost immediately, Belgium. Olympics? WC? Lombardia? There was this crash 12 months earlier, which indeed did hamper his preparation. Despite that he came back strong, but maybe simply didn't have the legs for the long races with A-class opponents (He did well in the Giro vs A-class opponents though) Plus, some of his fans here, don't know if you, after the WC were convinced that Remco could have won that, if Belgium had just given him a co-leadership role. Which is it? Again, he beneifited from starting that Giro in the long term, while in the short term the effect was negligable. Had he waited for Belgium for the comeback, I don't think anything would have changed.
It clearly hurt his fans though. Seeing him start and not win. It's like GP des Nations last weekend. He shouldn't have started, after he arrived second. Why not. The one week longer in training didn't hurt him. Starting there shows his hunger for victories, a good trait, not a bad one. But it seems to have hurt some of his fans, that he started and didn't win.


And I wasn't restricting it to a speciality. But saying he's the best racer. Period. But ok, the discussion you had following pissed some of, so let's drop this. But have to say one thing: You can argue that Vingegaard is the best. But when you start posting stuff like this:


thus not arguing about Vingegaards strength, but claiming some weakness, diminishing Pogacar's accomplishments, results and talent, you lost the argument already.



This one is fantastic. Giro, Covid, yes. The especially going up against Jumbo.. hihi, that's a joke right. He didn't go up against Jumbo. He simply collapsed on the queen stage. It didn't matter that Vingegaard, Roglic and Kuss were among the 60+ riders who dropped him, he wouldn't have won this Vuelta without Jumbo either. It's a nice story, he went up against the dominating team of the year and was beaten. It's just not what actually happened. And of course they focussed on winning the GC in the Vuelta. And stages too. What else should they focus on? Or you meant the whole season? Well, Tirreno, Paris Nice (where Vingegaard failed) Catalunya, Pais Vasco, Dauphiné, doesn't sound too shabby really. Winning that without focussing on it, impressive even. Plus I heard rumours that they actually focused on classics too as a team, just that Van Aert didn't deliver in the monuments. They did well enough in the other races though..


Well, true, other riders have bad luck striking at the right time and in their cases it's a pattern that's beneficial... Dude, you even read what you write?

Yes, Remco had the Lombardia crash and bad luck with Covid.
The problem here is that some of you guys are so focused on Remco, and Remco only, that in the end you lose sight of what happens to other riders. See Alaphilippe crash in Liège, which made Remco's job much easier. Now he was the one and only leader. Or if you don't like Alaphilippe finally winning Liège, how about Pogacar not starting in 22? Crashing out in 23? What about Roglic and the Vuelta 22? He clearly wasn't at his best (no, when he crashed out he had already lost, he wasn't going to get back any time, or if, minimal in the remaining lulu-stages), after his TdF crash. A normal Roglic simply doesn't lose that amount of time to Mas in the first week . But in the end, it doesn't matter. Remco could only beat those that were there, that's what he did, he won, that's it. But, the same counts for all the bad luck strangely striking at the wrong time which surprisingly is not a beneficial pattern for Remco. He crashes he's out, if if if doesn't count. Every win by every rider can be called into question if we start arguing how others had some problem. Pogacar would have won the Tour if he didn't break his wrist. Froome would have won the Tour 19+20 without his crash. and and and. At some point it's ok to accept reality without having to claim that Remco's Lombardia crash has cost him 3 years now....

Bad planning, whatever, that's just what we hear each time when he doesnt' win. What should be changed? Can't remember anybody saying that maybe he should have skipped San Sebastian to be there 100% for the Vuelta. Ah, he won that, so can't be skipped. So it's just the Vuelta that shouldn't have been ridden? Or what exactly was the bad planning 23? 22? 21? For me his program should include RVV... but in the end actually Soudal and Remco have done quite well with their program. Twice LBL, World Champion, 3 times San Sebastian



The team doesn't need to win the Tour, Remco has to. Cycling is an individual sport, raced in teams. Pogacar won 20 basically without a team. He didn't need one, Jumbo controlled for Roglic. Same will happen in 24, the race will be controlled. And in the end Remco has to follow just one rider, Vingegaard. Now if Pogacar goes and Vingegaard can't follow, Remco feels he has it, ok, go after Pogacar, but otherwise the plan is exceedingly simple. Follow Jonas Vingegaard. He doesn't need Arensman-Thomas-Rodriguez pacing him up mountains. (Actually when in trouble he almost seems to do better without pacemaker, riding his rhythm until he finds his leg, instead of trying to follow the rythm of the guy ahead. Now if he wins the Tour 24, then yes, he will need a much stronger team for 25. But for 24? What he has, plus the additon of Landa is already much better than what Pogacar had 20.

The first drafts of the thesis on 'Remco Theory' are in

 

[SHAD0W93]

The first drafts of the thesis on 'Remco Theory' are in

All it needs is APA format and references.