Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Red Rick]

I seriously doubt Vantourenhout will ever be selecting again.

Dunno what sort of kompromat he has on people that he got that job in the first place.

 

[Oldermanish]

But that's exactly what already happened

Inadvertently. Either that or DSQ orchestrated some amazing theatre to convince everyone that it happened naturally. I kid, of course.
Turn the page...

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Haha, Horner weighs in about Stuyven and Van Aert

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoNtl58FKN8&t=17s

 

[Luthor]

It's pretty clear why Remco avoided the debrief, he would have some explanations to do. Even during the race, when Declercq told him to slow down in the break and then the Belgian team chasing him later it was clear his tactics were off and not according to what the team established earlier. Now Stuyven and van Aert confirm that as well.

He also moved the whole tactics blame towards the coach saying they were not "clear". Before the race Evenepoel said that he is 100 % for WvA but didn't bother to make sure the work he has to do is clear and nobody can criticise him afterwards for it.

Honestly Sven looks it's not really suitable for dealing with this team. He should've already clarified this whole debacle and not let his team shred each other. Now everything looks like a mess.

It's gonna be interesting what's gonna happen in the future for the Belgian team. Fair to say van Aert and Remco will probably never work for each other.

 

[Big Doopie]

It's pretty clear why Remco avoided the debrief, he would have some explanations to do. Even during the race, when Declercq told him to slow down in the break and then the Belgian team chasing him later it was clear his tactics were off and not according to what the team established earlier. Now Stuyven and van Aert confirm that as well.

He also moved the whole tactics blame towards the coach saying they were not "clear". Before the race Evenepoel said that he is 100 % for WvA but didn't bother to make sure the work he has to do is clear and nobody can criticise him afterwards for it.

Honestly Sven looks it's not really suitable for dealing with this team. He should've already clarified this whole debacle and not let his team shred each other. Now everything looks like a mess.

It's gonna be interesting what's gonna happen in the future for the Belgian team. Fair to say van Aert and Remco will probably never work for each other.

U should probably check out horner’s comments in the link one post above. He largely dismantles each and every one of your concerns/criticisms (including your take on what exactly were team tactics and declerq’s role).

Also the belgian team actually using energy and riders to chase down remco’s 2nd attack group when it only had 45 seconds advantage (instead of leaving it to others - the French perhaps?) was criminal and those orders most likely had to come from van Aert (which makes it not just stupidity but also jealousy).

If I were Remco, not sure I would be too keen to join a meeting with riders who chased you down and then blew up later…

And it is horner’s belief that Remco had the legs to go with Ala AND drop him for the win if the tactics had been right.

 

[Luthor]

U should probably check out horner’s comments in the link one post above. He largely dismantles each and every one of your concerns/criticisms (including your take on what exactly were team tactics and declerq’s role).

Also the belgian team actually using energy and riders to chase down remco’s 2nd attack group when it only had 45 seconds advantage (instead of leaving it to others - the French perhaps?) was criminal and those orders most likely had to come from van Aert (which makes it not just stupidity but also jealousy).

If I were Remco, not sure I would be too keen to join a meeting with riders who chased you down and then blew up later…

And it is horner’s belief that Remco had the legs to go with Ala AND drop him for the win if the tactics had been right.

I watched some of Horner's videos in the past but the guy has some biased takes all the time.
Why referencing his video instead of "dismantling" what I said?

Either way, Remco's attacks did not follow Belgium's tactics, I'm not sure how that dismantles anything. Because of his weak sprint he should've probably be alone otherwise Belgium trusted more WvA's sprint than him dropping the others. in WC you don't have radio, so Belgium still went for the original plan. Now after the race it's easy to say this was a bad plan but if WvA had the legs it would be regarded as a good one.

You should always join meetings with riders which supposedly in the future might work for you. It's a sign of respect and also makes you part of the team. The guys at the nationals have no contractual obligation to work their asses for you but if you disrespect them you can usually say goodbye to guys burying themselves for you.

Remco couldn't drop Colbrelli on a climb but he would've dropped Ala in that monster form. Who ever believes this makes no sense.

 

[jflemaire]

Dunno what sort of kompromat he has on people that he got that job in the first place.

All I know is that he's a big buddy of Sven Nys and I guess Nys still pulls some punches in Flanders due to his immense popularity. And since Belgian cycling is pretty much Flemish cycling...

 

[Big Doopie]

I watched some of Horner's videos in the past but the guy has some biased takes all the time.
Why referencing his video instead of "dismantling" what I said?

Either way, Remco's attacks did not follow Belgium's tactics, I'm not sure how that dismantles anything. Because of his weak sprint he should've probably be alone otherwise Belgium trusted more WvA's sprint than him dropping the others. in WC you don't have radio, so Belgium still went for the original plan. Now after the race it's easy to say this was a bad plan but if WvA had the legs it would be regarded as a good one.

You should always join meetings with riders which supposedly in the future might work for you. It's a sign of respect and also makes you part of the team. The guys at the nationals have no contractual obligation to work their asses for you but if you disrespect them you can usually say goodbye to guys burying themselves for you.

Remco couldn't drop Colbrelli on a climb but he would've dropped Ala in that monster form. Who ever believes this makes no sense.

I thought it was somewhat ironic that literally the post just above yours addressed each of your points. So it seemed it was not needed for me to argue with you. I tried…

Horner explains quite well that Remco covering both attacks he covered was clearly NOT against the tactics if you follow the actions of the other Belgians during the race.

Secondly, there was ABSOLUTELY no need to have the Belgian team themselves chase the break with Remco in it with 50kms to go when the lead was only 45 seconds. None at all. It was criminal tactically for the team. And that order must have come from van Aert. Which is doubly concerning since he no longer had the legs 20 kms later. So, I think u might understand that Remco feels like van Aert specifically just didn’t want Remco to win.

As for Remco beating Ala. no idea. Just watch Horner. However, Remco had literally ridden Ala off his wheel about a week or so earlier on a similar parcours, so it is not far fetched at all. And Horner the ex pro tells you how and why that could have happened.

Seriously, you demand that I rebut your claims when they have been rebutted elsewhere, including the post that literally preceded yours, so…get a grip.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I watched some of Horner's videos in the past but the guy has some biased takes all the time.
Why referencing his video instead of "dismantling" what I said?

Either way, Remco's attacks did not follow Belgium's tactics, I'm not sure how that dismantles anything. Because of his weak sprint he should've probably be alone otherwise Belgium trusted more WvA's sprint than him dropping the others. in WC you don't have radio, so Belgium still went for the original plan. Now after the race it's easy to say this was a bad plan but if WvA had the legs it would be regarded as a good one.

You should always join meetings with riders which supposedly in the future might work for you. It's a sign of respect and also makes you part of the team. The guys at the nationals have no contractual obligation to work their asses for you but if you disrespect them you can usually say goodbye to guys burying themselves for you.

Remco couldn't drop Colbrelli on a climb but he would've dropped Ala in that monster form. Who ever believes this makes no sense.

After the race it's indeed easy to say it was a bad plan, even easier than it was before the race, which i for one, did repeatedly. And i'm quite sure i'm not the only one. Even Van Aert himself hinted at Evenepoel attacking so that they could let other teams do the work. But somehow mid-race, Van Aert must have changed his mind. It doesn't take a genius to come up with the plan to let Evenepoel attack from further out than other favorites find comfortable, let other countries chase him, and when they catch him, they will have burned a few matches and brought Van Aert into the final following wheels. Is basic QuickStep 101 tactics. It worked perfectly with the first attack, when Evenepoel basically smoked half the Italian team. This it exactly what should have been the concept from the get go. Only, not to do it that soon. But in order to make that bluff, you have to have someone who is able to pull off the raid. And if you actually do have someone like that, you have to let him go all out, with the off-chance he succeeds. If he doesn't then Van Aert should only have followed the other favorites and the other Belgians should have been fresh as well as they would not have had to have done any work. But again, mid race, Van Aert thought it was a good idea to let Evenepoel's effort go to waste, and even more, to put his own team mates to work, with no good reason but to tire them and himself in chasing a teammate. Yet somehow Evenepoel gets all the blame here.

So let Evenepoel attack at 65k from the finish, have him take 1 minute on the peloton before Ala attacks at 50k. Then i would like to see Alaphilippe close that gap on rolling terrain on Evenepoel. Even in monster form. Who ever believes that makes no sense.

 

[Bolder]

So let Evenepoel attack at 65k from the finish, have him take 1 minute on the peloton before Ala attacks at 50k. Then i would like to see Alaphilippe close that gap on rolling terrain on Evenepoel. Even in monster form. Who ever believes that makes no sense.

That WOULD have been the perfect plan, but somebody (Remco likely ) decided to freelance and show his hand too early. We now know Wout didn't have it, so logically having Remco attack in the last third of the race could have created a winning moment in which he just rides away solo, with wout and stuyven running interference and forcing everyone else to work behind.

But he went in the first third instead and couldn't pull off the planned later attack successfully. The post mortem zoom call must have been a party...

 

[Boes]

It's clear that it's off season since this is getting a lot of attention on the forum.

1. We don't know why he wasn't there. Don't forget this was 5 days after the WC (so 1-2nd of october-ish) and Remco did race Giro dell'Emilia the 2nd of October. So there's actually a good chance he had a valid excuse.

2. This will all blow over in a couple of months after most riders will have had time to talk it through. By the time there'll be a WC where Remco is the sole leader, people and riders will have forgotten about the Leuven fiasco completely.

WC 2022 in Australia will most likely be flat (so WVA/Phillipsen/Merlier), WC 2023 Glasgow will probably also be a WVA parcour (admittely a good Remco will always be co leader) and WC 2024 in Zurich might be the first parcour since Leuven where Remco will need the entire squad in his service. I doubt Leuven will be an issue in 2024. And I very much doubt Vantornhout will still be the man taking the decisions.

 

[Red Rick]

It's clear that it's off season since this is getting a lot of attention on the forum.

1. We don't know why he wasn't there. Don't forget this was 5 days after the WC (so 1-2nd of october-ish) and Remco did race Giro dell'Emilia the 2nd of October. So there's actually a good chance he had a valid excuse.

2. This will all blow over in a couple of months after most riders will have had time to talk it through. By the time there'll be a WC where Remco is the sole leader, people and riders will have forgotten about the Leuven fiasco completely.

WC 2022 in Australia will most likely be flat (so WVA/Phillipsen/Merlier), WC 2023 Glasgow will probably also be a WVA parcour (admittely a good Remco will always be co leader) and WC 2024 in Zurich might be the first parcour since Leuven where Remco will need the entire squad in his service. I doubt Leuven will be an issue in 2024. And I very much doubt Vantornhout will still be the man taking the decisions.

You don't just act unprofessionally cause it'll all blow over anyway.

Also, this was a WC in Belgium, where they had the biggest favorite at the startline. This will be remembered for a very long time.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

You don't just act unprofessionally cause it'll all blow over anyway.

Also, this was a WC in Belgium, where they had the biggest favorite at the startline. This will be remembered for a very long time.

For sure. This will run or on next year when Van Aert will probably politic himself into the undisputed sole leader position above the Alpecin guys.

 

[hayneplane]

That WOULD have been the perfect plan, but somebody (Remco likely ) decided to freelance and show his hand too early. We now know Wout didn't have it, so logically having Remco attack in the last third of the race could have created a winning moment in which he just rides away solo, with wout and stuyven running interference and forcing everyone else to work behind.

But he went in the first third instead and couldn't pull off the planned later attack successfully. The post mortem zoom call must have been a party...

To be fair he didn't make the first move, Cosnefroy did but he leapt on it when a Campanaerts/Lampaert would have been the best riders to move at that point as a reaction. The boneheaded move was Belgium being well represented up front in the final 3rd of the race yet being the main team pulling in the chase group despite other major nations having no rider in the lead group at the time.

 

[hayneplane]

It's clear that it's off season since this is getting a lot of attention on the forum.

1. We don't know why he wasn't there. Don't forget this was 5 days after the WC (so 1-2nd of october-ish) and Remco did race Giro dell'Emilia the 2nd of October. So there's actually a good chance he had a valid excuse.

2. This will all blow over in a couple of months after most riders will have had time to talk it through. By the time there'll be a WC where Remco is the sole leader, people and riders will have forgotten about the Leuven fiasco completely.

WC 2022 in Australia will most likely be flat (so WVA/Phillipsen/Merlier), WC 2023 Glasgow will probably also be a WVA parcour (admittely a good Remco will always be co leader) and WC 2024 in Zurich might be the first parcour since Leuven where Remco will need the entire squad in his service. I doubt Leuven will be an issue in 2024. And I very much doubt Vantornhout will still be the man taking the decisions.

If the Glasgow worlds is the Commonwealth Games course and in bad weather like Harrogate then the rolling parcours would be perfect for Remco to go long and try to shred the rival teams 1 by 1 on an undulating course that would favour sustained power over 30 second bursts.

 

[King Boonen]

If the Glasgow worlds is the Commonwealth Games course and in bad weather like Harrogate then the rolling parcours would be perfect for Remco to go long and try to shred the rival teams 1 by 1 on an undulating course that would favour sustained power over 30 second bursts.

Rumour is that it'll be different, but if they want a city loop for some laps it'll either be pretty similar by that point or flatter.

 

[Bolder]

To be fair he didn't make the first move, Cosnefroy did but he leapt on it when a Campanaerts/Lampaert would have been the best riders to move at that point as a reaction. The boneheaded move was Belgium being well represented up front in the final 3rd of the race yet being the main team pulling in the chase group despite other major nations having no rider in the lead group at the time.

True, but as you noted that was a job for Someone other than the next Eddy M...

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

That WOULD have been the perfect plan, but somebody (Remco likely ) decided to freelance and show his hand too early. We now know Wout didn't have it, so logically having Remco attack in the last third of the race could have created a winning moment in which he just rides away solo, with wout and stuyven running interference and forcing everyone else to work behind.

But he went in the first third instead and couldn't pull off the planned later attack successfully. The post mortem zoom call must have been a party...

So you believe that was the plan but Remco fumbled it? If that were true, then why did his own team start to chase him? If anything, it shows they clearly did not want him up the road in the last part.

It also makes minced meat out of the accusation that it was his fault the race was too hard too soon. They made it needlessly hard by chasing a teammate.

Also recall the moment he first went with Cosnefroy, the Belgian team literally blocked the road. They didn't seem to mind then. But after Van Aert couldn't cut it, that was all on Evenepoel. And i'm sure had Van Aert been able to pull it off, that move by Evenepoel that killed Italy would have been regarded as a stroke of genius.

 

[SafeBet]

Remco not attending the meeting is more to his detriment than to others'.
I mean, facing some scrutiny for half an hour is a very low price to pay to convince all stakeholders involved (media, other riders, coach, etc) that he's a reliable leader for the future. Politics matter in all workplaces, cycling is no exception.

He's made zero progress in that department since turning pro.

 

[Red Rick]

Remco not attending the meeting is more to his detriment than to others'.
I mean, facing some scrutiny for half an hour is a very low price to pay to convince all stakeholders involved (media, other riders, coach, etc) that he's a reliable leader for the future. Politics matter in all workplaces, cycling is no exception.

He's made zero progress in that department since turning pro.

Add to that he's from the country that's the most stacked of them all for one day races. It's not like he's their only shot at results

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

How come all the discussion is on here and not on the van Aert thread, which has been rather quiet since he failed to bag any of the big races at the end of the season?

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Add to that he's from the country that's the most stacked of them all for one day races. It's not like he's their only shot at results

Same applies to van Aert.

 

[Red Rick]

Same applies to van Aert.

Van Aert has results to back up leadership claims at monument and WC level races. Plus he's a lot more versatile and Van Aert himself would give Evenepoel a lot more tactical leverage if they were to lead together.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Van Aert has results to back up leadership claims at monument and WC level races. Plus he's a lot more versatile and Van Aert himself would give Evenepoel a lot more tactical leverage if they were to lead together.

He's more versatile, but in this race he also had only one option: Outlast all sprinters and win the sprint from a group of favorites. Same amount of options that Evenepoel had: go from far. Which is an option Van Aert does not have.

But your last two posts bring us back to the initial problem: not including Evenepoel as a valid contender. And Van Aert was very happy with that, it gave him piece of mind.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Van Aert has results to back up leadership claims at monument and WC level races. Plus he's a lot more versatile and Van Aert himself would give Evenepoel a lot more tactical leverage if they were to lead together.

He's won one Monument - the same as Stuyven. The guy needs a few more of those in the bag to dictate sole leadership. It's those that count, not the bookmaker's odds. Hell, the bookies must have loved him after the Olympics, Worlds and P-R.
It was dumb to declare that - they had a few potential winners in that squad. If Quickstep had adopted those tactics then Asgreen, Jungels or Terpstra would never have won Monuments.