Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

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Just a question. Once you realize that they are not where they "supposed to be"... do you keep putting the hammer down on the front so no one else can move forward or do you try to look where your teammates are so you can bring them up again?

What was odd about Remco taking that pull was that it was utterly pointless. OK, so the sprint train was disorganized -- what was Remco going to do, ride away from the peloton in the last 2km after a pan-flat stage? Never. That's Cancellara level. On the other hand, if he drives the pace so hard that no one can move up, that puts his team at even more of a disadvantage.

Since anything goes in this thread, I'm going to "psychologize" and posit that he was pissed at his climbing the day before, so he wanted to prove that he was as strong as anyone. Hence, a red mist clouded his judgement.

Alternatively, I suppose he could have gotten QS's blessing to keep driving. But it didn't LOOK like he was accomplishing anything. What could have produced a better outcome was to drive hard, slow down or swerve to let the QS team regroup, then move aside...
 
What was odd about Remco taking that pull was that it was utterly pointless. OK, so the sprint train was disorganized -- what was Remco going to do, ride away from the peloton in the last 2km after a pan-flat stage? Never. That's Cancellara level. On the other hand, if he drives the pace so hard that no one can move up, that puts his team at even more of a disadvantage.

Since anything goes in this thread, I'm going to "psychologize" and posit that he was pissed at his climbing the day before, so he wanted to prove that he was as strong as anyone. Hence, a red mist clouded his judgement.

Alternatively, I suppose he could have gotten QS's blessing to keep driving. But it didn't LOOK like he was accomplishing anything. What could have produced a better outcome was to drive hard, slow down or swerve to let the QS team regroup, then move aside...

I think you are analyzing it very well.

Alternatively it could have been the DS saying "keep riding", but I also think they might have told him that because that is what would have been the easiest thing to tell him. As you alluded to. He doesnt seem to be easiest rider to coach and rides with a lot of passion and aggression. He shows his emotions. Good and bad. He is a strong character. A character that I think cycling and the peloton needs. No fun, if it was only robots or machines riding around.

But, because there is always a but, the way he acts of emotions and just puts his head down is to his detriment sometimes. Even when he is in a "helping" role, it feels like he is riding for himself. Like yesterday and a couple of times in the past. That is just an observation. Some may agree and some will likely not agree with that. Im not looking for a debate on that part.

He is a young man with great talent but he has an ego, no doubt about it. He hasnt been in the sport that long so there is probably gonna be tactical mistakes here and there, like yesterday. He is also a bit of a hot head, that goes by the beat of his own drum. That can lead to mistakes if he is not fully focused on what is important, or ride himself empty trying to "help". I can think of one example, that I am not gonna bring up because that has been discussed enough.

When he puts his great engine and talent to use he is almost unstoppable some days. With growth and maturing a bit I think he could have all the chances in world to fulfill some of these things people are saying. Whether it be one-day races, one-week stage race or even GTs. Like most us, I will enjoy following him. A lot left of this year and this has only been the first race. He will finish 2nd overall with a stage-win. Pretty good start.
 
It's February and Remco is clearly carrying some extra weight. I expected a bit more because of stage 1, but I don't mind this result at all.
Did someone mention yet he just celebrated his 22nd birthday?
No need for big conclusions.

His age at this point is irrelevant. It is his 4th full season as a pro, his maybe still biggest success came in 2019. He might be young but he is a seasoned pro.
 
You think the problem for Remco on stage 3 was the steepness of the climb or gravel?

Anyway it's too early to come to conclusions about Remco as a climber in GTs. I remember in 2017, 2018 Roglič was in similar situation. A great TTer, great on the hills, but people were still questioning his climbing ability. Since then he's become arguably the best climber in the world in the span from 2019 till 2022. Remco is in my opinion even better at both, TT and on hilly terrain, than Roglič was at the time. He is also a better climber and younger than Rogla was back then.

At the end of the day, it could mean nothing, because they are all individuals and everybody has their own path. But we shouldn't jump to conclusions just yet. There is a realistic chance he'll improve his climbing ability and become a GT contender. If not this season maybe in a couple of years' time.
 
You think the problem for Remco on stage 3 was the steepness of the climb or gravel?

Anyway it's too early to come to conclusions about Remco as a climber in GTs. I remember in 2017, 2018 Roglič was in similar situation. A great TTer, great on the hills, but people were still questioning his climbing ability. Since then he's become arguably the best climber in the world in the span from 2019 till 2022. Remco is in my opinion even better at both, TT and on hilly terrain, than Roglič was at the time. He is also a better climber and younger than Rogla was back then.

At the end of the day, it could mean nothing, because they are all individuals and everybody has their own path. But we shouldn't jump to conclusions just yet. There is a realistic chance he'll improve his climbing ability and become a GT contender. If not this season maybe in a couple of years' time.
Definitely steepness. I think he even flat out said it himself. But i guess with the info we have, it does kind of make sense. They've taken a different approach this winter, focusing on his biggest weakness (1-3 minute power) first and foremost in order to get better at short climbs for the hilly classics. They said he will be a "different Remco" when he goes to the Vuelta (compared to now). See the previous pages.

He does share some resemblance to Roglic, but Roglic never showed anything close to Evenepoel's raids, nor does Evenepoel come close to Roglic' sprint/punching skills. Their build is somewhat similar, they seem to be more TT'ers who can climb than the other way around (a description i feel fits Pogacar better). And they both lack bikehandling skills due to starting late.
 
You think the problem for Remco on stage 3 was the steepness of the climb or gravel?

Anyway it's too early to come to conclusions about Remco as a climber in GTs. I remember in 2017, 2018 Roglič was in similar situation. A great TTer, great on the hills, but people were still questioning his climbing ability. Since then he's become arguably the best climber in the world in the span from 2019 till 2022. Remco is in my opinion even better at both, TT and on hilly terrain, than Roglič was at the time. He is also a better climber and younger than Rogla was back then.

At the end of the day, it could mean nothing, because they are all individuals and everybody has their own path. But we shouldn't jump to conclusions just yet. There is a realistic chance he'll improve his climbing ability and become a GT contender. If not this season maybe in a couple of years' time.

Remco's climbing is fine for the TDF and for the longer Vuelta climbs. It's only the muritos where he struggles.

Sierra Nevada seems perfect for Remco
 
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Definitely steepness. I think he even flat out said it himself. But i guess with the info we have, it does kind of make sense. They've taken a different approach this winter, focusing on his biggest weakness (1-3 minute power) first and foremost in order to get better at short climbs for the hilly classics. They said he will be a "different Remco" when he goes to the Vuelta (compared to now). See the previous pages.

He does share some resemblance to Roglic, but Roglic never showed anything close to Evenepoel's raids, nor does Evenepoel come close to Roglic' sprint/punching skills. Their build is somewhat similar, they seem to be more TT'ers who can climb than the other way around (a description i feel fits Pogacar better). And they both lack bikehandling skills due to starting late.

Ullrich!

Ullrich always lost big time on steep finishes like ADH. Yet on shallower climbs like Arcalis, he mowed the competition down.

Remco has done the same thing so far in his career. On the 5-8% gradients, he takes big time. On >8%, he struggles big time

If we ever had the proper amount of ITT km back in these races, this would be far less of an issue as he could bleed a couple of minutes, while the climbers lose 5-6M in a 60km ITT
 
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He does share some resemblance to Roglic, but Roglic never showed anything close to Evenepoel's raids, nor does Evenepoel come close to Roglic' sprint/punching skills. Their build is somewhat similar, they seem to be more TT'ers who can climb than the other way around (a description i feel fits Pogacar better). And they both lack bikehandling skills due to starting late.

It's true that Roglič crashes occasionally but given the circumstances i wouldn't say his bike handling skills are all that bad. He is a great descender and AFAIK he doesn't have much problems if any at all with gravel. In 2022 we will find out on how he can handle cobbles. As we don't yet know that for sure.
 
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Remco's climbing is fine for the TDF and for the longer Vuelta climbs. It's only the muritos where he struggles.

Agreed. But the last climb he did before his Lombardy crash was unbelievably steep and he looked by far the strongest, breathing through his nose, so I don’t know…

I think he could greatly benefit on those types of climbs by measuring his effort, riding more to power, letting some riders distance him earlier. He is so competitive that he tries to hang on too long and exploded. Exploding on a climb like that means 30 seconds lost in 1 km.

At least in steep mountains he should race more like Hinault.

The thing is, in a balanced course (I.e. one with ITT) he could afford to lose some time. That is why recent course designs specifically hurt all round riders like Remco and Dumoulin. Those types of riders have to alter their whole approach and training while the pure climbers are allowed to ignore their TT bikes.

Having said that, Algarve is a rare example of having the balance completely off the other way.

My 2 cents.
 
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The full article i spoke of: https://www.demorgen.be/sport/train...in-functie-van-luik-bastenaken-luik~b9d8886e/

  • gained 1.5kg of muscle
  • natural evolution of his body at this age
  • 1 minute efforts improved considerably
  • biggest personal goal of first part of the season: Liège
  • will lose 2kg for the Vuelta, preparation starts in May, with focus on long efforts + altitude
Google translate:

Trainer Pilgrim and boss Lefevere about the wider thighs of Evenepoel: 'In function of Liège-Bastogne-Liège'

Remco Evenepoel is the talk of the town in the Tour of Valencia. Thanks to his victories and wider thighs. Last winter he worked extra on his leg muscles and explosiveness to be able to compete with the world top in the short climb. Team boss Patrick Lefevere and trainer Koen Pelgrim indicate: 'Remco has become a bit more man.'
BVDC and BA5 February 2022, 03:00

Remco Evenepoel has the habit of immediately setting the tone in his first race of the season. In the past, this was successful in Argentina and the Algarve. Since this week, Valencia has also been part of that list.

Surprisingly, that quick success is not. What's new: its increased explosiveness. “Last winter I worked hard on my explosive ability: more sprints, better minute values,” says Evenepoel, whose thighs look more muscular than ever.

The expert eye of Patrick Lefevere agrees with this thesis. “Remco has become a bit more of a man physically. You can see that in his face,” says the CEO of QuickStep-Alpha Vinyl. His trainer Koen Pelgrim confirms this visual suspicion: “Remco does indeed weigh one and a half kilos more, but what matters is fat-free mass: muscles. No excess winter kilos.”

The metamorphosis is remarkable because it happened without extra hours in the weight room. “The extra muscles in the thighs were already there in November after his rest period,” says Pelgrim, who adds that it is not an unnatural development when a rider gains more muscle mass at the age of 22. On the contrary. “Between the age of eighteen and twenty-second, each rider gains two to three kilos of lean body mass. In the race that is called: body. I also see this evolution on dexascans (scan that measures the ratio between fat, bone and muscle tissue, ed.) by Mauri Vansevenant and Stan Van Tricht.”

Pilgrim cannot say how many centimeters extra thigh circumference is involved with Evenepoel. “We are not concerned with the aesthetic aspect. It's not about the thickness of the muscles, but what they are capable of.”

The extra muscle power provides more explosiveness. That was necessary. “In recent years I have sometimes had difficulties on steep arrivals,” Evenepoel admits. Pelgrim also makes no secret of the fact that his poulain's sprint speed was the shortcoming: "It was his biggest working point, but his performance during one-minute efforts has improved considerably."

Not that thanks to those one and a half kilos of extra muscles he would suddenly pop Sonny Colbrelli out of the wheel on the climb of the past European Championship or Wout van Aert would now beat Wout van Aert in the sprint at the Belgian Championship, but it should help Evenepoel in the first part. to perform optimally this season. For many, his season is completely dominated by the Vuelta in the autumn, but with the Tirreno-Adriatico and certainly Liège-Bastogne-Liège, there are also big goals in the spring. When you ask Evenepoel which race he absolutely wants to win in 2022, he answers 'Liège'.

“In the Ardennes classics, short and steep slopes of several kilometers await. He will perform better on those slopes thanks to the extra muscle and explosiveness. Also in the Algarve and Tirreno-Adriatico there are no long cols, but shorter and steep climbs”, says Pelgrim.

Depending on his season, Evenepoel's changed morphology is ideal, but is he becoming more of a one-day rider than a pure round rider? “The Remco of the Vuelta will not be the same as the Remco of the spring. Long cols await in the Vuelta. From May we will focus on training for long efforts, for example with altitude internships. Against the Vuelta, the aim is to lose two kilos in order to compete in the high mountains. But we're not working on that yet. It is still a long time until the Vuelta”, explains Pilgrim.

What is certain is that Evenepoel will never have the wafer-thin physique of a Chris Froome. At 1.71m, he is also 15 centimeters shorter than the four-time Tour winner. “Each rider has to choose for himself with which weight he performs best,” says Pelgrim. But what about the watts per kilo? The power per kilogram of body weight that must be above the number six to be able to follow the best in the cols.

“The ratio of watts per kilo is not sacred. As a rider you can try to lose another three kilos, but as a result you are too skinny. In big rounds, it's important to recover well for three weeks and keep pedaling those watts. If a rider is too skinny and doesn't recover enough, those higher watts per kilo are of no use," says Pelgrim.

Evenepoel will never be a type like Froome. In terms of morphology, he leans more towards Primoz Roglic (1m76). The other topper Tadej Pogacar also measures 1m76, but is built more spindly and yet very explosive. He won Liège-Bastogne-Liège after a sprint against Julian Alaphilippe and Alejandro Valverde. “Explosivity is partly innate, but that Pogacar is still so fast in the final kilometer of mountain stages or difficult races is because he has surplus. You may still be very explosive, but the condition is ultimately the determining factor. Two years ago, Remco also sprinted uphill away from the rest in the Algarve. He certainly wasn't the most explosive back then, but unlike the others, he wasn't a bloc yet.”

The litmus test will follow within a month. Then Evenepoel takes on Pogacar in the Tirreno-Adriatico. Lefevere realizes that too. "It is promising what he is showing now, but it is not yet against Pogacar and Roglic." If Evenepoel Liège wants to win, he will also have to flex his (extra) muscles against the two Slovenians.
 
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