Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Red Rick]

I don't see how that helps him. The longer, the better for him.

Longest ITT Evenepoel has won was under 35km.

But I was mainly talking about recovery. I think the efforts are so specific and different it's very hard to do great at both.

 

[red_flanders]

I don't really follow the transfer stuff at all, never have. What (if any) are the chances for QS to add climbers to the team before next year? The team was OK in the Vuelta, but as someone said a ways back, what they brought is not going to cut it (or even close) at the Tour vs the likes of a full bore Jumbo team and UAE.

I assume that's why Lefevre is touting 2024 for the Tour, time to get his team in order. It looks like Jakobsen is under contract through 2023. Tough to not take him since he's going to win stages. Looks like Alaphilippe is through 2024? You can see a Tour team with Ala and Remco. Hard to see one with Jakobsen and Remco versus the big teams. They're just going to get crushed.

At this point I'd like to see him go to a real GC team, but I guess with a large contract out to 2026 that's going to be tough. Ineos has to be thinking about how to make that happen.

Other thoughts? Like I say, I don't follow this part of the sport, happy to learn more like what the options would be to buy out a contract. Seems like I've heard of that happening in cycling?

 

[Bonimenier]

Longest ITT Evenepoel has won was under 35km.

But I was mainly talking about recovery. I think the efforts are so specific and different it's very hard to do great at both.

There's a full week between the 2 races. Recovery isn't the problem, decompression is.

 

[Big Doopie]

I don't really follow the transfer stuff at all, never have. What (if any) are the chances for QS to add climbers to the team before next year? The team was OK in the Vuelta, but as someone said a ways back, what they brought is not going to cut it (or even close) at the Tour vs the likes of a full bore Jumbo team and UAE.

I assume that's why Lefevre is touting 2024 for the Tour, time to get his team in order. It looks like Jakobsen is under contract through 2023. Tough to not take him since he's going to win stages. Looks like Alaphilippe is through 2024? You can see a Tour team with Ala and Remco. Hard to see one with Jakobsen and Remco versus the big teams. They're just going to get crushed.

At this point I'd like to see him go to a real GC team, but I guess with a large contract out to 2026 that's going to be tough. Ineos has to be thinking about how to make that happen.

Other thoughts? Like I say, I don't follow this part of the sport, happy to learn more like what the options would be to buy out a contract. Seems like I've heard of that happening in cycling?

only jan hirt for next year.

agree that giro should be next year, largely because they don't (yet) have the team to fully support him at TDF.

he needs doms that can drop riders from the back. the vuelta team never really did that. he could likely benefit from jumbo's work on behalf of vingo, i guess, but...

 

[OlavEH]

I'd rewatch 1997 or even 1994. Indurain had a massive mountain attack on Hautacam, while Ullrich crushed Arcalis and the MTT. They won their tours in the mountains those years

Indurain won 5 Tours, it would be strange if he didn't beat his competition in one single mountain stage. And only two days before he crushed his competitors in a long ITT. An about immense diesel engine could create gaps to more typical climbers on certain occasions, but on regular basis? No, I don't think so. I won't believe it until I see it that Remco outperforms both Pogacar and Vingegaard in the mountains for several stages in one single Tour.

And btw, we're also talking about some of the very worst years when it comes to clinic issues. Everyone and espcecially these diesel engines had some massive rocket fuel in their veins these years.

 

[Riek s]

Julian in form would be a fantastic addition for Remco in his GT team.

He is good at positioning and can go for the win on those steep Mfers where Roglic/Pog will go for boni;
He is not strong enough to go for the win, but strong enough to go very far in the mountains and can be of great help on those long stages where it breaks open very early.
He also showed he wanted to work for Remco in this Vuelta.
And he could also try for some stages that suite him.

I also don't think the current Remco would be nbr 1 in the race, nobody will expect him to carry the race.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You're quite obnoxious, thats what you are.

Will be very interesting to see if Patrick Lefevre can fit Alaphilippe. I wonder who he will have to give up of Serry, Devenyns and Masnada - a very hard choice indeed.

Please man. What a ridiconlus take.

Maybe you should start analysing your own behaviour once in a while, as you are always so keen on doing with others. It would suit you.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Maybe you should start analysing your own behaviour once in a while, as you are always so keen on doing with others. It would suit you.

You're impossible to have a conversation with. Its totally useless to engage in a discussion. Never once I have seen you change your stand, and it sure as doesn't getter any better when the topic is Remco and Julian Alaphilippe (who you for some strange reason seems to heavily dislike based on the posts I have seen you write on him). One might even argue you're a tad biased based on you seemingly knowing more about Remco's training than his actual trainers, more about his weight than himself and more about his personal life than his parents.

My stand is highly uncontroversial. When you don't have the favorite, you bring another rider to yield some results for themselves and the team in case the GC rider fails for various reason. Especially when its a star you pay a bucketload of money and is French. Thats logic, and everybody can get behind such a statement apart from you it seems.
That rider can help Remco as well, obviously, and should he get into yellow, Julian is 100% at this disposal now. Even if he just stands a good shot after some great showings early, you obviously focus more on Remco now. If he happens to crash or flat out get dropped, now you suddenly have another card to play and grab some glory in by far the biggest race of the season. Its not controversial, and it would take an absolute lunatic to throw every egg in one basket when you're considered the 3rd biggest favorite for a race like Tour de France and has great winners at your disposal like him. Team strength is somewhat overrated anyways when youre not expected to make the race - which Remco isn't. And Julian, even going for his own glory, probably STILL is more valuable than some mediocre Belgian. Thats why I argued Wout van Aert was Jonas' best and most important domestique, even though he rode his own race on many, many occasions.

Still looking forward to see the day where Lefevre picks Serry over Alaphilippe due to Alaphilippe 'not really fitting well'.

 

[KZD]

When Roglic did the WCC ITT 3 years ago, he got clobbered by Dennis, Evenepoel, Ganna... He didn't even make the top 10 in Harrogate. Evenepoel decided in 2021 at the last moment to do Chrono des Nations at the end of the season. He finished 5th behind Küng, Madsen, De Marchi and Gate.

I think doing a top level TT at the end of the season when not 100% fresh is not so obvious.

I don't expect Evenepoel to be at his best (if he is, then he is the second favourite behind Ganna) but I don't think Roglic is the best comparison point as if I remember well he crashed three times in that Vuelta including one at the third week and Evenepoel is scheduled to ride this since he become Belgian TT champion so I expect him to be good enough for top5 maybe even podium depending on how people like Küng, Bissegger or Pogacar perform.

 

[red_flanders]

only jan hirt for next year.

agree that giro should be next year, largely because they don't (yet) have the team to fully support him at TDF.

he needs doms that can drop riders from the back. the vuelta team never really did that. he could likely benefit from jumbo's work on behalf of vingo, i guess, but...

Hirt should be a nice signing, yes? Did top ten in the Giro? That bodes well assuming they use him as a GT gregario. Will be interesting to see how he does.

I thought the best dom in the Vuelta was Cavagna. They'd have been in a world of hurt without him in the early hours of the stages.

 

[red_flanders]

I don't expect Evenepoel to be at his best (if he is, then he is the second favourite behind Ganna) but I don't think Roglic is the best comparison point as if I remember well he crashed three times in that Vuelta including one at the third week and Evenepoel is scheduled to ride this since he become Belgian TT champion so I expect him to be good enough for top5 maybe even podium depending on how people like Küng, Bissegger or Pogacar perform.

No Van Aert for the TT?

 

[KZD]

No Van Aert for the TT?

No, he will just ride the RR. Though I guess Lampaert could perform well in this course, maybe top5.

 

[Riek s]

No Van Aert for the TT?

No, WVA didn't want to ride for a silver medal... can you believe the balls on that guy?

(as a belgian i honestly don't undertand that reason, he is together with REmco our best TTer and a certain podium spot that has no impact on the RR ( a week later)).

I still think REmco won't be at his best. Hard to believe he would be given he contested the vuelta + its at the opposite side of the world. The jetlag + the fatigue + climatization might be to much to ask. So we might end up without medals due to the choice of WVA)

 

[red_flanders]

No, WVA didn't want to ride for a silver medal... can you believe the balls on that guy?

(as a belgian i honestly don't undertand that reason, he is together with REmco our best TTer and a certain podium spot that has no impact on the RR ( a week later)).

I still think REmco won't be at his best. Hard to believe he would be given he contested the vuelta + its at the opposite side of the world. The jetlag + the fatigue + climatization might be to much to ask. So we might end yup without medals due to the choice of WVA)

Yeah I agree WRT Remco. That's a big ask after an emotional win + travel and all the things you mention. Plus it's just a long time to hold top form.

WVA does seem a bit odd. I think he's just not going to be on the form he was in the Tour (not a shocker) and you're probably right, figures he's not likely to win.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You're impossible to have a conversation with. Its totally useless to engage in a discussion. Never once I have seen you change your stand, and it sure as doesn't getter any better when the topic is Remco and Julian Alaphilippe (who you for some strange reason seems to heavily dislike based on the posts I have seen you write on him). One might even argue you're a tad biased based on you seemingly knowing more about Remco's training than his actual trainers, more about his weight than himself and more about his personal life than his parents.

My stand is highly uncontroversial. When you don't have the favorite, you bring another rider to yield some results for themselves and the team in case the GC rider fails for various reason. Especially when its a star you pay a bucketload of money and is French. Thats logic, and everybody can get behind such a statement apart from you it seems.
That rider can help Remco as well, obviously, and should he get into yellow, Julian is 100% at this disposal now. Even if he just stands a good shot after some great showings early, you obviously focus more on Remco now. If he happens to crash or flat out get dropped, now you suddenly have another card to play and grab some glory in by far the biggest race of the season. Its not controversial, and it would take an absolute lunatic to throw every egg in one basket when you're considered the 3rd biggest favorite for a race like Tour de France and has great winners at your disposal like him. Team strength is somewhat overrated anyways when youre not expected to make the race - which Remco isn't. And Julian, even going for his own glory, probably STILL is more valuable than some mediocre Belgian. Thats why I argued Wout van Aert was Jonas' best and most important domestique, even though he rode his own race on many, many occasions.

Still looking forward to see the day where Lefevre picks Serry over Alaphilippe due to Alaphilippe 'not really fitting well'.

The fact that Serry can pull 50k on hilly terrain every day, and will do so without complaining or having an off day because he went in the attack the day before or is saving his legs for the final the same day if he thinks he can win. That is why, depending on the overall team goal, you could opt to take an extra dom instead of a rogue teammate. I could also see the rider himself passing if he feels he would lose too much freedom to chase his own ambitions, or lose too much of his edge by having to work on certain occasions. So i can only repeat. If they can fit him in. It is not a forgone conclusion imho. I also pointed out that Alaph usually asks for Devenyns to be there. If the team says there is no package deal, that could also impact his own decision. I fail to see how my point is any more controversial than yours, yet i'm not the one calling you a troll or obnixious just because i refuse to yield. Just for proposing there might be a scenario where Alaphilippe does not make the team. When it's all in for Evenepoel, when the parcours doesn't suit Alaphilippe, when he only wants to ride in case he can bring Devenyns, when he feels working for the GC leader will hinder his own chances too much that it makes no sense for him to be there instead of a dedicated dom with only one goal and one focus.

Furthermore i have not made any absolute statements, unlike you, that it will be like that. I have also repeatedly provided context that this scenario is in case the team decides they go all in for Evenepoel's GC. I have also stated that i don't necessarily think this is the best idea to begin with. So, who is trolling who and who is being obnoxious and won't change his stand?

It's funny how you find the need to show your bias towards me ("because i only discuss riders i like") when i assumed you liked Alaphilippe, and here you assume i dislike him. I don't dislike him, quite the opposite, but that doesn't mean i can't be critical of him. Before this Vuelta, i have not really seen him do any work for Evenepoel, while i have seen the opposite quite a few times. I wonder if his legs were better in the Vuelta and he thought he could win a few stages, if he would have been so eager to work for Evenepoel the first week.

 

[tobydawq]

The fact that Serry can pull 50k on hilly terrain every day, and will do so without complaining or having an off day because he went in the attack the day before or is saving his legs for the final the same day if he thinks he can win. That is why, depending on the overall team goal, you could opt to take an extra dom instead of a rogue teammate. I could also see the rider himself passing if he feels he would lose too much freedom to chase his own ambitions, or lose too much of his edge by having to work on certain occasions. So i can only repeat. If they can fit him in. It is not a forgone conclusion imho. I also pointed out that Alaph usually asks for Devenyns to be there. If the team says there is no package deal, that could also impact his own decision. I fail to see how my point is any more controversial than yours, yet i'm not the one calling you a troll or obnixious just because i refuse to yield. Just for proposing there might be a scenario where Alaphilippe does not make the team. When it's all in for Evenepoel, when the parcours doesn't suit Alaphilippe, when he only wants to ride in case he can bring Devenyns, when he feels working for the GC leader will hinder his own chances too much that it makes no sense for him to be there instead of a dedicated dom with only one goal and one focus.

Furthermore i have not made any absolute statements, unlike you, that it will be like that. I have also repeatedly provided context that this scenario is in case the team decides they go all in for Evenepoel's GC. I have also stated that i don't necessarily think this is the best idea to begin with. So, who is trolling who and who is being obnoxious and won't change his stand?

It's funny how you find the need to show your bias towards me ("because i only discuss riders i like") when i assumed you liked Alaphilippe, and here you assume i dislike him. I don't dislike him, quite the opposite, but that doesn't mean i can't be critical of him. Before this Vuelta, i have not really seen him do any work for Evenepoel, while i have seen the opposite quite a few times. I wonder if his legs were better in the Vuelta and he thought he could win a few stages, if he would have been so eager to work for Evenepoel the first week.

Remco hardly needs 7 riders who can ride 50k on the front day in, day out.

I definitely also think that if you are arguing that QS shouldn't pick Alaphilippe, then Jumbo should leave Wout home for the same reasons. Which of course would be absolute lunacy (I'm not calling you a lunatic btw).

 

[Extinction]

I don't think the Frenchman on form should be left out, because if he is on winning form picking up his stage to then be a domestique deluxe cannot be a negative for the team. Besides apparently they are great friends and that weighs in on the psychological end when Remco needs comrads.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

If Remco goes to the Tour next year I would send these 7 with with him:

1. Alaphilippe
2. Van Wilder
3. Masnada
4. Cattaneo (Hirt or Vervaeke if Cattaneo is the 2022 version of himself and not close to the 2021 version)
5. Serry
6. Cavagna
7. Lampaert / DeClerq

Two big guys to keep him out of trouble in the first week.
Serry are very useful when the road goes up and down. Can do a lot of donkey work.
Cattaneo, Masnada and Van Wilder can defend him well for a long time in mountain stages. Cattaneo and Masnada are also good at getting in breaks if they want to have riders up the road. Van Wilder could potentially be a great lieutenant next year.
If Ala is on good form he will be a brilliant dom even if he tries to win some stages and goes in some breaks. Ala with 50% commitment to the team and 50% commitment to himself will likely still be the best domestique QS can bring.

I'm not sure Hirt will be a great climbing domestique, I think perhaps the Giro suits him a lot better with a little less battle during the first week.

 

[Salvarani]

Ala is the lucky charm. He was in the team for LBL and here. Would be foolish to not pick to go with Remco for only superstitious reasons, of course. Remember Leuven? They were on the same team that day too.

 

[Red Rick]

Still don't understand the "Giro next" stuff.

The only reason I could understand is if Jakobsen has TdF guaranteed in his contract or some ***.

 

[Extinction]

Still don't understand the "Giro next" stuff.

The only reason I could understand is if Jakobsen has TdF guaranteed in his contract or some ***.

Well, Patrick always said the Tour was for 2025 with ambitions (but is this Evenepoel's wish?). I still would not be displeased to have him at the next Giro, but, as they say, the Tour is the Tour. Be interesting to see what actually pans out and whether or not it is the best progress or opportunity.

 

[Valv.Piti]

If Remco goes to the Tour next year I would send these 7 with with him:

1. Alaphilippe
2. Van Wilder
3. Masnada
4. Cattaneo (Hirt or Vervaeke if Cattaneo is the 2022 version of himself and not close to the 2021 version)
5. Serry
6. Cavagna
7. Lampaert / DeClerq

Two big guys to keep him out of trouble in the first week.
Serry are very useful when the road goes up and down. Can do a lot of donkey work.
Cattaneo, Masnada and Van Wilder can defend him well for a long time in mountain stages. Cattaneo and Masnada are also good at getting in breaks if they want to have riders up the road. Van Wilder could potentially be a great lieutenant next year.
If Ala is on good form he will be a brilliant dom even if he tries to win some stages and goes in some breaks. Ala with 50% commitment to the team and 50% commitment to himself will likely still be the best domestique QS can bring.

I'm not sure Hirt will be a great climbing domestique, I think perhaps the Giro suits him a lot better with a little less battle during the first week.

I feel like you should really make sure to make room for Asgreen. In top form, thats exactly the kind of domestique I'd want as the 1st guy on my squad being a small climber or whatever. Its basically Hincapie. Perfect rider for the first week, and can climb a decent amount.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

I feel like you should really make sure to make room for Asgreen. In top form, thats exactly the kind of domestique I'd want as the 1st guy on my squad being a small climber or whatever. Its basically Hincapie. Perfect rider for the first week, and can climb a decent amount.

Oh. I was sure I was missing someone when I was thinking about it, but didn’t bother to check the team. My bad.
Asgreen of course in as one of the two big guys. Then last spot is between Cavagna, Lampaert or Declerq.

 

[Riek s]

Oh. I was sure I was missing someone when I was thinking about it, but didn’t bother to check the team. My bad.
Asgreen of course in as one of the two big guys. Then last spot is between Cavagna, Lampaert or Declerq.

I think Cavagna did an amazing job this vuelta.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

remco with stage 10 vuelta form could compete with ganna.

not so sure coming out of the vuelta and the crash.

last year, he was bad at Olympics but then was really good for a few weeks in Italy and Belgium in one-day races.

he then completely fell off the map at lombardy and Nations ITT.

different rider now perhaps, but i would not be surprised if he also underperforms at WCs.

I think his "off year" in 2021 had a lot more to do with Remco not getting back to his form after his crash. Pretty wild that Remco still managed 8 wins in 2021 along with a bronze in the world TT and Euro TT and a silver in the Euro road race.

I think he finally got back to his 2020 form and then improved upon it massively.

The variable of having a full GT in the legs and the quick turnaround along with the travel to Australia does raise some questions.

That being said. Remco can let it fly over the next 10-14 days as he's acheied his goals for the year maybe save for gold in the ITT and/or the WC RR.

I don't think Ganna has shown he is invulnerable this year.

As for the WC RR I think every knows that Remco is going to try launch one way or the other from around 50km out.