Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Carrick-On-Seine]

He is good, obviously above the average, but he is NOT a phenomenon. He came on top in a well-oiled flemish cycling school. If it was not him there'd be someone else in his place. Belgium will always produce cyclists just like Austria or Norway do with skiers.

If you like the word, keep it for someone like Biniam Girmay.

Anderlecht Cycling School?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He is good, obviously above the average, but he is NOT a phenomenon. He came on top in a well-oiled flemish cycling school. If it was not him there'd be someone else in his place. Belgium will always produce cyclists just like Austria or Norway do with skiers.

If you like the word, keep it for someone like Biniam Girmay.

Evenepoel is a phemomenon.
If it weren't him, there would be nobody else like him.
There is nobody else like him.

He is 1m71, weighs 61-63 kg, and he beats a powerhouse like Ganna in flat TT's.
He does 30-60km solo raids, where he puts the world's best riders up to 2 minutes back, on regular basis.

He is a phenomenon.

 

[entre nous]

Anderlecht Cycling School?

Hermann Maier was a bricklayer. Just like that guy from Asmara

 

[KZD]

First of all, I hope that Remco recovers well from his covid19 infection.

Assuming that happens, I see two possible paths for him this season. The 'safer' option would be something like

- Dauphine/Tour de Suisse
- Nationals
- Altitude Camp
- Donostia
- World Championships
- Vuelta
- Lombardia with likely Emilia and Tre Valli Varesine before

Its actually a pretty decent option this one. He would face Tour de France contenders in the Dauphiné and the TDS, I would prefer him to race the Dauphiné for him to race against Vingegard, even though the Dane would likely be in better shape, then after the Nationals and altitude, Donostia and the Worlds would remain as targets from his original schedule and he would attempt to defend his Vuelta title before heading to Italy, for an attempt to win his second monument of the season.

The second path, which is the one most fans and also the sponsors want would be something like this

-Dauphiné/Tour de Suisse
- Altitude Camp
-Tour
-World Championships
-Benelux Tour
- Altitude Camp
- Italian fall classics

This would be my choice honestly. Not that I think that he would be ready to win the Tour because Pogi and Jonas are still one step above, at least given that they didn't target the Giro like Remco but if he wants to win the race next year, I think it would be great for him to gain more experience by racing it already in 2023 and I believe he could also win a stage or two or even do a decent GC result. The Tour would also work for him to build a base before the World Championships, it worked last year with the Vuelta after all. Then he could do the Benelux Tour to ride a bit in home rodes before having a little break and build-up a proper peak for Il Lombardia.

Whatever is the choice of Remco and the team, I am sure he will get a few more wins until the end of the season but if his main career goal is to win the Tour, then I think the second path is the best option. He would sacrifice the short-term chances of winning a Grand Tour this season to improve the medium-long term chances of winning the Tour and with the World Championships before the Vuelta and a very mountainous route this season, I think he would have a harder time winning it than last year and this second option would likely give him a bigger chance of winning Lombardia. Last, but not least if he abandons the Tour in the next years, he will likely comeback to the Vuelta anyway.

 

[Panda Claws]

He is good, obviously above the average, but he is NOT a phenomenon. He came on top in a well-oiled flemish cycling school. If it was not him there'd be someone else in his place. Belgium will always produce cyclists just like Austria or Norway do with skiers.

If you like the word, keep it for someone like Biniam Girmay.

Not that I think your take has any overall merit but GC riders are still very much outliers for Belgium.

Only Eddy Merckx ever really was one since WW II

 

[Bonimenier]

Not that I think your take has any overall merit but GC riders are still very much outliers for Belgium.

Only Eddy Merckx ever really was one since WW II

Did you forget the great Jurgen Van den Broeck?

 

[entre nous]

He is 1m71, weighs 61-63 kg, and he beats a powerhouse like Ganna in flat TT's.
He does 30-60km solo raids, where he puts the world's best riders up to 2 minutes back, on regular basis.

You missed the point.

There was once a high jump world record holder 1m73cm tall. He was from Jersey, not from Kinshasa

 

[how yes no?]

I think the level he has reached already justified the hype he got in 2018. Merckx or not. At age 22 he won a monument, a GT and a WCC. The "he needs to prove himself" bullsht is over. Yet over the course of 5 years, not only his fans, but also he himself has been ridiculed every time something didn't work out, when he didn't succeed at something from a first try. However annoying people perceive the behaviour of his fans, what you get now is simply a reaction to years of mockery and ridicule. And as such we are now caught in a loop.

How you rate him is your business. I rate him as one of the two best cyclists in the world, even if he doesn't excel at everything or if he isn't the (second) best at everything. He is a phenomenon.

green - I agree.

turquoise - I agree, but I would like to add, that riders in the last 20 years have achieved more with less hype. But it's also true he was the most hyped, so he would need to also achieve the most to even have the chance to also win in the relative achievements/hype category, but it's not of vital importance anyway.

blue - I agree that's a massive achievement and supports the first sentence and the last sentence. If we go by the data we have and not wait for more proof (it could be enough for whole career of a very good rider let alone the basic assessment) he's a phenomenon, not Mercx, not currently the best active rider and not looking likely of becoming one soon (being (arguably) the best GT rider is near a must for that I think), but certainly among the best few.
But I can live with such disagreement in the views, respectfully not basing conclusions on disputed ground.

About the loop, I came in while it was already well in motion it seems, who knows where it started, maybe even in Belgium when he has just started from the other promising (jealous?) cyclists smirking at a small footballer thinking he can stand a chance.
I guess after this lays down in the coming giro days, there will be enough time for a truce to grow into something more lasting and maybe the loop will not be restarted if the conditions will not be there anymore. But it will take a retreat on both sides. But of course, we can't change the whole world here, if we manage to change this forum with all the influence the outside world has on it, it would be a crazy achievement already.

 

[Panda Claws]

Did you forget the great Jurgen Van den Broeck?

Top Tier GC riders*

I have the utmost respect for VDB2 though

 

[peterfin]

He is good, obviously above the average, but he is NOT a phenomenon. He came on top in a well-oiled flemish cycling school. If it was not him there'd be someone else in his place. Belgium will always produce cyclists just like Austria or Norway do with skiers.

If you like the word, keep it for someone like Biniam Girmay.

He IS a phenomenon.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

You missed the point.

There was once a high jump world record holder 1m73cm tall. He was from Jersey, not from Kinshasa

Is gravity stronger in Kinshasa?

 

[Blanco]

Sure, Remco stopped because his ego can't handle a beating... And apparently SQS goes along with that, because they're only paying him millions to not ride a bike.

Also on top of that Ganna was also scared of Remco for the TT, so he also just faked his COVID so he could stop, and Pogacar fell on purpose during LBL.

Remco stopped because he knows he wont win this race.
My guess is that Remco knew he has covid before ITT, and maybe even day before.
But that TT drain him out and worsen things with the virus. Results were not as he expected, virus is there, 2+2 = 4, and that's it, he's out.

 

[Riek s]

Remco stopped because he knows he wont win this race.
My guess is that Remco knew he has covid before ITT, and maybe even day before.
But that TT drain him out and worsen things with the virus. Results were not as he expected, virus is there, 2+2 = 4, and that's it, he's out.

Cause and effect are different, but maybe these bs takes about stepping out because he can't win anymore should stop. This is complete and utter disrespect for any rider that abandoned due to sickness or crashes. They stopped because any more would damage them ffs.

 

[peterfin]

Apparently we are back in the comparison game. For anyone who do want a number on it, check the H2H PCS points on procyclingstats (to Tadej, Merckx, Girmai erc). Remco was on the steepest upward trajectory of any rider ever until covid started and he subsequently dipped after he dipped of that bridge. Meanwhile he is following Pogacar's curve and both are just slightly underneath of the untouchable Merckx. A similar comparison can be made when looking at the number of wins.

What makes his score and large number of wins at his young age even more remarkable is the fact that he has no real sprint. Until recently he couldn't win a sprint of 2! In a recent stat of km solo attacks since 2020 he had almost triple the number of anyone else. Because of his power of delivering results all alone and not needing the gamble of a sprint, he is also enormous efficient when it comes to delivering results when it matters. For example, he won medals on all NC, EC and WC ITT events he started (3x NC BSG, 2× EC GS and 3x WC SBB ). He has a 100% success rate in LBL and San Sebastian, 2 of his major goals. He was 2x a team leader in an EC and WC road race and he delivered (silver and gold).

So lets be clear, he is a phenomenon, no doubt about that! Betting against him in any race that he marked in his calendar is a big risk. He had a difficult 2021 after his crash, both physically and mentally, and he needed until early 2022 to be completely back on track but anyone who believes that he is overrated and overhyped is making a baseless claim.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

I would believe a man in his position and background knows a lot more about cycling and what is happening behind the scenes then any fan on this forum. He's a man with a lot of integrity but usually says things he belives or knows loud if people like it or not. Simmilar to Belgium guy you like a lot.. And many Belgium reporters also. I see no problem.

Bigger problem is some Belgium guy that calls himself reporter (youtuber) that is crazy about Remco and now tries to get clicks and views by steering the pot.

So appeal to authority even though his position makes no sense. The fact that people believe there is some conspiracy is patently absurd.

Remco may have tested positive but had an allowable viral load like Ayuso in la Vuelta and didn't feel that he was sick. Elected to do the time trial and thought he'd be ok, but his condition worsened and he tested positive.

Why would he leave after winning two stages and pink jersey if he wasn't and didn't have Covid? He knows how important a Giro win is for his legacy.

As for why he pulled out after the TT, he looked like death warmed over and when he tested positive there was no point risking his long term health with a disease for which scientists/doctors have little to no long term data on risks and consequences.

If he had a cold or the flu he would have stayed to see if he could start on Tuesday.

With Covid and feeling like hammered sh*t there was zero point in sticking around.

No clue why people think there's some grand conspiracy or that Remco is ducking people or it was a riuse just to get to the TDF. Someone would have to lose their spot at the TDF for him to be there. It makes for disharmony at quickstep to take someone's spot for a rise.

He's not won plenty of times. He clearly was sick and his ITT was not at his normal level.

This whole situation is straight forward, but hey if you can't handle boring unexciting truths might as well fabricate some ridiculous conpiracy yarns to make things seem more interesting.

 

[bNator]

Apparently we are back in the comparison game. For anyone who do want a number on it, check the H2H PCS points on procyclingstats (to Tadej, Merckx, Girmai erc). Remco was on the steepest upward trajectory of any rider ever until covid started and he subsequently dipped after he dipped of that bridge. Meanwhile he is following Pogacar's curve and both are just slightly underneath of the untouchable Merckx. A similar comparison can be made when looking at the number of wins.

What makes his score and large number of wins at his young age even more remarkable is the fact that he has no real sprint. Until recently he couldn't win a sprint of 2! In a recent stat of km solo attacks since 2020 he had almost triple the number of anyone else. Because of his power of delivering results all alone and not needing the gamble of a sprint, he is also enormous efficient when it comes to delivering results when it matters. For example, he won medals on all NC, EC and WC ITT events he started (3x NC BSG, 2× EC GS and 3x WC SBB ). He has a 100% success rate in LBL and San Sebastian, 2 of his major goals. He was 2x a team leader in an EC and WC road race and he delivered (silver and gold).

So lets be clear, he is a phenomenon, no doubt about that! Betting against him in any race that he marked in his calendar is a big risk. He had a difficult 2021 after his crash, both physically and mentally, and he needed until early 2022 to be completely back on track but anyone who believes that he is overrated and overhyped is making a baseless claim.

He is a phenomenon no doubt about that. But about following the Pogacars’s curve… I don’t know about the PCS stats but Pogacar already had a TDF win at his age and was well on his way towards the second one in a couple of months time. That’s gotta count for something. If Remco goes to TDF next year and wins it (and that’s a very big if) he will have been almost 3 years behind Pogi when winning Tour for the first time. And even going with the PCS stats, I really doubt he follows Pogacars’s curve, who has been on top of the UCI for almost 3 years now…

Edit: I actually made a mistake. When Pogacar was Remco’s age, he has already won Tour 2 times not once. He was 3 time monument winner (vs 2) and he won one of the prestigious 7 week stage races two times. The only thing Remco has going for him is the WCC which does not even out the other stats…

 

[groogster]

Evenepoel is a phemomenon.
If it weren't him, there would be nobody else like him.
There is nobody else like him.

He is 1m71, weighs 61-63 kg, and he beats a powerhouse like Ganna in flat TT's.
He does 30-60km solo raids, where he puts the world's best riders up to 2 minutes back, on regular basis.

He is a phenomenon.

Agree with you 100%.
He's a generational talent, everyone that follows cycling for decades as I don't have any doubts about that.

 

[Andre]

Did you forget the great Jurgen Van den Broeck?

...and Lucien Van Impe...

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Remco stopped because he knows he wont win this race.
My guess is that Remco knew he has covid before ITT, and maybe even day before.
But that TT drain him out and worsen things with the virus. Results were not as he expected, virus is there, 2+2 = 4, and that's it, he's out.

As i said, him knowing beforehand is highly unlikely. I think he didn't feel great, but maybe thought it was the crash and that the restday could save him.
Why is it unlikely, as i already explained. Because if they knew before the TT that it was covid and that he wasn't going to continue, the team had no reason to tell Van Wilder (who actually wanted to go all out in the TT) that he couldn't go all out in the TT, in the assumption that he would need to help Evenepoel the next week. Especially since (as Van Wilder said in a pre-race interview) there was a chance that they would allow him to go all out, depending on circumstances. So there was no need to deny Van Wilder his TT (on his birthday no less). They had an alibi to let him go all out (as stated pre-race), yet they denied him. The only logical conclusion is that they still assumed he would need to help Evenepoel the coming weeks.

 

[Andre]

sounds logical to me

 

[how yes no?]

As i said, him knowing beforehand is highly unlikely. I think he didn't feel great, but maybe thought it was the crash and that the restday could save him.
Why is it unlikely, as i already explained. Because if they knew before the TT that it was covid and that he wasn't going to continue, the team had no reason to tell Van Wilder (who actually wanted to go all out in the TT) that he couldn't go all out in the TT, in the assumption that he would need to help Evenepoel the next week. Especially since (as Van Wilder said in a pre-race interview) there was a chance that they would allow him to go all out, depending on circumstances. So there was no need to deny Van Wilder his TT (on his birthday no less). They had an alibi to let him go all out (as stated pre-race), yet they denied him. The only logical conclusion is that they still assumed he would need to help Evenepoel the coming weeks.

This makes sense.
As a side what-if question, do you think he/they would also abandon in the same way (at the same time) if everything about him would be the same as it was (falling ill, testing positive after the TT), but he would not lose time on stage before and win the TT by 2min and be 3min ahead of everyone in the GC after the TT? (It's impossible scenario, we know he was not at his best because of (mostly) covid, but if somehow this result still happened)
In many other teams, I think he would probably stay (like Bystorm, who was also symptomatic), and try to see if recovery is possible, but I realize the Declerq experience might for example lead them to different decision.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

This makes sense.
As a side what-if question, do you think he/they would also abandon in the same way (at the same time) if everything about him would be the same as it was (falling ill, testing positive after the TT), but he would not lose time on stage before and win the TT by 2min and be 3min ahead of everyone in the GC after the TT? (It's impossible scenario, we know he was not at his best because of (mostly) covid, but if somehow this result still happened)
In many other teams, I think he would probably stay (like Bystorm, who was also symptomatic), and try to see if recovery is possible, but I realize the Declerq experience might for example lead them to different decision.

I think they might have hesitated longer, and waited for the rest day to make a decision. But if his viral load was equally high, i do believe they would have taken him out. If he weren't symptomatic, and had no performance issues (like Ayuso in the Vuelta) then maybe they'd let him stay and see on a day by day basis? I don't know, just speculating. I know last year QS was rather strict with covid. They took Asgreen and Van Wilder off the bike for several weeks.

 

[houtdffan]

Sven Erik Bystrom positive for Covid-19 but continues Giro d'Italia

With Remco Evenepoel testing positive and abandoning the Giro d'Italia, Covid-19 has rightfully been the main topic of the first rest day of the race. More fuel may be set to hit the fire however, as...

cyclinguptodate.com

Bystrom remaining in the Giro with covid

 

[red_flanders]

Sven Erik Bystrom positive for Covid-19 but continues Giro d'Italia

With Remco Evenepoel testing positive and abandoning the Giro d'Italia, Covid-19 has rightfully been the main topic of the first rest day of the race. More fuel may be set to hit the fire however, as...

cyclinguptodate.com

Bystrom remaining in the Giro with covid

No symptoms, makes sense.

 

[houtdffan]

No symptoms, makes sense.

as it should be