Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Ilmaestro99]

Even TDS Remco finishes ahead of Pog at this year's TDF. But, he would have been humiliated by Vingegaard

? Suisse remco who got beaten by skejmose, uran, Bilbao and Felix gall in the mountains would be ahead of Pogacar ?

 

[houtdffan]

? Suisse remco who got beaten by skejmose, uran, Bilbao and Felix gall in the mountains would be ahead of Pogacar ?

Gall was quite a bit ahead today, just saying

 

[Andy schleck]

The way JV ride the TdF should suit Remco very well. The question mark is whether Remco can keep up with Vingo in the mountains. We'll find out next year.

It's not just about keep up with vingo in the mountains or in the TT, the question mark is if remco can survive physically during 3 weeks the way Jumbo races. They make the race hard everyday, then everyone is buried physically. They can do that because the harder, the better for vingegaard. He is the best in terms of recovery, not just in terms of pure watts.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

It's not just about keep up with vingo in the mountains or in the TT, the question mark is if remco can survive physically during 3 weeks the way Jumbo races. They make the race hard everyday, then everyone is buried physically. They can do that because the harder, the better for vingegaard. He is the best in terms of recovery, not just in terms of pure watts.

It really is the question though where he could make a dent into Vingegaards amour. Really hard to imagine him dropping Vingegaard on a clim, especially since Remco is in a disadvantage to Vingegaard when it comes to acceleration.
It could be fun though if Pogacar and Remco gang up on Jumbo to make a classics-type stage absolute living hell.

 

[peterfin]

It's not just about keep up with vingo in the mountains or in the TT, the question mark is if remco can survive physically during 3 weeks the way Jumbo races. They make the race hard everyday, then everyone is buried physically. They can do that because the harder, the better for vingegaard. He is the best in terms of recovery, not just in terms of pure watts.

The harder the race, the better for Remco also. What he can't handle are accelerations (which Vingegaard neither likes) and Remco clearly plateaus in terms of watt/kg without proper preparation (altitude camp in particular) but doesn't run out of gas (or better: diesel). Vingegaard is most likely the better climber but not better in recovery.

 

[Andy schleck]

The harder the race, the better for Remco also. What he can't handle are accelerations (which Vingegaard neither likes) and Remco clearly plateaus in terms of watt/kg without proper preparation (altitude camp in particular) but doesn't run out of gas (or better: diesel). Vingegaard is most likely the better climber but not better in recovery.

You don't know that because remco never did the tour. You can't compare the speed and the toughness of the tour, with la vuelta 2022, the only GT that remco was able to finish, and a GT that was basically a unipuerto GT. You can't barely beat Mas and think that it's enough to fight for the tour. Mas in this tour, in the same shape of la vuelta 2022, would finish with a gap of more than 10 min to vingegaard. Doing 6.8 w/kg on catalunya at col de port in 24 minutes, is not the same thing like doing 6.8 w/kg on marie blanque at the tour, in a similar amount of time.

 

[Big Doopie]

The harder the race, the better for Remco also. What he can't handle are accelerations (which Vingegaard neither likes) and Remco clearly plateaus in terms of watt/kg without proper preparation (altitude camp in particular) but doesn't run out of gas (or better: diesel). Vingegaard is most likely the better climber but not better in recovery.

I generally agree (though I really have no idea how anyone can state that Remco has better recovery than Vingo at this point - based on what exactly?).

I really think both fans and doubters simply need to wait until he competes at the TDF against both top dogs.

There is much that indicates that with the right prep, peak Remco may be blessed with extraordinary recuperation. peak Remco is virtually unbeaten in long single-day races. peak Remco appears to be able to attack and then attack again, and again if needed after 200 km have been covered. That is rare. In terms of three-week recuperation, we only have one Vuelta to go on and he appeared to be good in the third week (winning a MTF even, once he had recuperated from his crash).

However, the above has really little to do with successive climbs at high altitudes and day-in day-out wear and tear from a race like the TDF. So, I do not see how that is anything but a complete unknown. Peak Remco would appear to have the recuperation qualities to do well, but does he have those for something like the TDF? I hope so, but I certainly do not know for sure, I even have some doubts. but we will only really know when we see him try (the Giro would have been helpful for sure).

 

[Kwaremonster]

I generally agree (though I really have no idea how anyone can state that Remco has better recovery than Vingo at this point - based on what exactly?).

I really think both fans and doubters simply need to wait until he competes at the TDF against both top dogs.

There is much that indicates that with the right prep, peak Remco may be blessed with extraordinary recuperation. peak Remco is virtually unbeaten in long single-day races. peak Remco appears to be able to attack and then attack again, and again if needed after 200 km have been covered. That is rare. In terms of three-week recuperation, we only have one Vuelta to go on and he appeared to be good in the third week (winning a MTF even, once he had recuperated from his crash).

However, the above has really little to do with successive climbs at high altitudes and day-in day-out wear and tear from a race like the TDF. So, I do not see how that is anything but a complete unknown. Peak Remco would appear to have the recuperation qualities to do well, but does he have those for something like the TDF? I hope so, but I certainly do not know for sure, I even have some doubts. but we will only really know when we see him try (the Giro would have been helpful for sure).

Agree with this.

Then ofcourse the one unknown is the parcours. Mainly the time trial km's. I doubt the organization wants to see the same winner 5 years in a row, so maybe they can spice things up by adding a few more flat kms. It's not like Gaudu stands a chance of winning anyway. I know it's not the trend but we can hope.

 

[Netserk]

People are seriously underestimating Evenepoel. According to Lanterne Rouge, his performance in Catalunya (of all races) was better than (peak) Vingegaard on Marie Blanque.

Jonas Vingegaard Skyrockets on Marie Blanque | Tour de France 2023 Stage 5 - Lanterne Rouge

Jonas Vingegaard annihilated his competition on the steep gradienst of the Marie Blanque climb, putting over a minute into his closest rival before the race, Tadej Pogačar. Jai Hindley won the stage from the breakaway and earnt the leader's jersey, with a masterclass from Bora-Hansgrohe.

lanternerouge.com

So you think Rogla would’ve dropped Vingegaard on Marie-Blanque?

Almeida and Soler would have dropped Pogi?

 

[Trofonios]

So are we certain Remco will beat Ayuso and Rogla in the Vuelta? Can't see Remco taking much time in either the TTT or ITT.

 

[Berniece]

So are we certain Remco will beat Ayuso and Rogla in the Vuelta? Can't see Remco taking much time in either the TTT or ITT.

If he's in the same form as last year, then yeah, he's going to beat both of them

 

[Trofonios]

If he's in the same form as last year, then yeah, he's going to beat both of them

I think Ayuso is a bit of an unknown here. Third last year just 20 years old. If he has progressed from last year, which isn't unlikely (we have already seen that his TT is better), then I think he can challenge Remco. My worry with Ayuso is that he isn't always consistent.

 

[Miha81]

It really is the question though where he could make a dent into Vingegaards amour. Really hard to imagine him dropping Vingegaard on a clim, especially since Remco is in a disadvantage to Vingegaard when it comes to acceleration.
It could be fun though if Pogacar and Remco gang up on Jumbo to make a classics-type stage absolute living hell.

Now this would be a treat to watch. Not only from pure power perspective but to see how Vinge would respond under pressure.

 

[Berniece]

I think Ayuso is a bit of an unknown here. Third last year just 20 years old. If he has progressed from last year, which isn't unlikely (we have already seen that his TT is better), then I think he can challenge Remco. My worry with Ayuso is that he isn't always consistent.

I don't remember exactly, but wasn't Ayuso quite consistent last year? But I agree that Ayuso will be the biggest opponent for Remco. I don't really believe in Roglic, definitely not after watching the past Giro.

 

[Bolder]

I generally agree (though I really have no idea how anyone can state that Remco has better recovery than Vingo at this point - based on what exactly?).

I really think both fans and doubters simply need to wait until he competes at the TDF against both top dogs.

There is much that indicates that with the right prep, peak Remco may be blessed with extraordinary recuperation. peak Remco is virtually unbeaten in long single-day races. peak Remco appears to be able to attack and then attack again, and again if needed after 200 km have been covered. That is rare. In terms of three-week recuperation, we only have one Vuelta to go on and he appeared to be good in the third week (winning a MTF even, once he had recuperated from his crash).

However, the above has really little to do with successive climbs at high altitudes and day-in day-out wear and tear from a race like the TDF. So, I do not see how that is anything but a complete unknown. Peak Remco would appear to have the recuperation qualities to do well, but does he have those for something like the TDF? I hope so, but I certainly do not know for sure, I even have some doubts. but we will only really know when we see him try (the Giro would have been helpful for sure).

He will need a much better team, too. A Yates or Kuss who can make the final selection, at the very least.

I would have preferred to see Remco do the Tour this year, because his form last year was unbelievable. Even just as a "let's see what he can do" test. Instead it was a wasted late spring-summer. He might not have made an impression on the GC but surely he'd have contested more than a few stages...

 

[Valanga]

He will need a much better team, too. A Yates or Kuss who can make the final selection, at the very least.

I would have preferred to see Remco do the Tour this year, because his form last year was unbelievable. Even just as a "let's see what he can do" test. Instead it was a wasted late spring-summer. He might not have made an impression on the GC but surely he'd have contested more than a few stages...

Easy to say in hindsight of course, but before the Giro, the Giro looked promising as well with Remco, Roglič and G.
It's only a wasted spring-summer because he got sick, that could also have happened in the tour.

I can't see current peak Remco beating current peak Vingegaard. But perhaps he can give us a fight for 2nd. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And let's just go to Ineos Remco, you'll need all the knowledge/support you can get...

 

[Ulle97]

Right lads,
I'm going to send a letter to ASO requesting the following stages for Remco's quest to beat Jonas next year.

Alps- Orcieres Merlette(Similar to 2020 stage)
Pra-Loup after Allos.
Villard de Lans.

50km TT between Alps and Pyrenees

Pyrenees - Ax3 Domaines.
Arcalis
Pla de Beret

Then we have the Nice stages with the MTF and 35km ITT.

Nice shallow gradients for Remco and plenty of TT.
Watch out Jonas!!!

 

[witeken]

The way JV ride the TdF should suit Remco very well. The question mark is whether Remco can keep up with Vingo in the mountains. We'll find out next year.

I think that's a big question mark. Of course, we don't know what Remcos full potential is yet, but Vingegaard is doing things that are really really impressive. He'd beaten Remco yesterday, handily so I believe. On top of that he's absurdly consistent, but there are peaks in his performances that are just out of reach for anyone atm it seems. Even if one insists Pogacar was very handicaped by preparation.

Pog did the one thing Remco didn't do (except when QS had him pull the chute after being dropped for the umpteenth time on a descent during the 2021 giro). Pog utterly imploded today

Even TDS Remco finishes ahead of Pog at this year's TDF. But, he would have been humiliated by Vingegaard

The harder the race, the better for Remco also. What he can't handle are accelerations (which Vingegaard neither likes) and Remco clearly plateaus in terms of watt/kg without proper preparation (altitude camp in particular) but doesn't run out of gas (or better: diesel). Vingegaard is most likely the better climber but not better in recovery.

You don't know that because remco never did the tour. You can't compare the speed and the toughness of the tour, with la vuelta 2022, the only GT that remco was able to finish, and a GT that was basically a unipuerto GT. You can't barely beat Mas and think that it's enough to fight for the tour. Mas in this tour, in the same shape of la vuelta 2022, would finish with a gap of more than 10 min to vingegaard. Doing 6.8 w/kg on catalunya at col de port in 24 minutes, is not the same thing like doing 6.8 w/kg on marie blanque at the tour, in a similar amount of time.

Easy to say in hindsight of course, but before the Giro, the Giro looked promising as well with Remco, Roglič and G.
It's only a wasted spring-summer because he got sick, that could also have happened in the tour.

I can't see current peak Remco beating current peak Vingegaard. But perhaps he can give us a fight for 2nd. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And let's just go to Ineos Remco, you'll need all the knowledge/support you can get...

Yesterday Vingegaard did 6.2 W/kg for half an hour. In the Tour of Norway 2022, Remco did 6.5 W/kg for half an hour.

Sure, there's the usual caveat of this being an effort after two weeks in the TDF at the end of a hard stage (although the stage in Norway also had quite some intensity beforehand) vs. a one week stage race, but Remco is a two time LBL and single Vuelta winner (among other victories), so he should have sufficient endurance and recovery.

Feel free to disagree. Maybe Pogacar will do Vuelta after the TDF defeat?

Vingegaard Destroys Tadej Pogačar in Week 3 | Tour de France 2023 Stages 16 & 17 - Lanterne Rouge

Jonas Vingegaard performed exceptionally well at the beginning of this third week of the Tour de France, winning the time-trial on Stage 16 with one of the greatest performances of all time, and on the Queen Stage the next day being the fastest from the GC group. In this article we will take a...

lanternerouge.com

Remco Evenepoel Produces The Best Climbing Performance of 2022 - Lanterne Rouge

While the Giro d'Italia is receiving the most attention, the Tour of Norway stage 3 did not disappoint at all, with Remco Evenepoel doing an unbelievable climbing performance on the queen stage that ended with the steep Gaustatoppen-Stavsro climb (10.5 km, 8.7%).

lanternerouge.com

 

[Andy schleck]

Yesterday Vingegaard did 6.2 W/kg for half an hour. In the Tour of Norway 2022, Remco did 6.5 W/kg for half an hour.

Sure, there's the usual caveat of this being an effort after two weeks in the TDF at the end of a hard stage (although the stage in Norway also had quite some intensity beforehand) vs. a one week stage race, but Remco is a two time LBL and single Vuelta winner (among other victories), so he should have sufficient endurance and recovery.

Vingegaard Destroys Tadej Pogačar in Week 3 | Tour de France 2023 Stages 16 & 17 - Lanterne Rouge

Jonas Vingegaard performed exceptionally well at the beginning of this third week of the Tour de France, winning the time-trial on Stage 16 with one of the greatest performances of all time, and on the Queen Stage the next day being the fastest from the GC group. In this article we will take a...

lanternerouge.com

Remco Evenepoel Produces The Best Climbing Performance of 2022 - Lanterne Rouge

While the Giro d'Italia is receiving the most attention, the Tour of Norway stage 3 did not disappoint at all, with Remco Evenepoel doing an unbelievable climbing performance on the queen stage that ended with the steep Gaustatoppen-Stavsro climb (10.5 km, 8.7%).

lanternerouge.com

Are you really comparing 6.2 w/kg during almost 35 minutes at 2300 m of altitude, after a hard stage, high pace, in the third week of a grand tour, with 6.5 w/kg in half an hour in a weak tour norway, a one race, a easy stage, in a unipuerto stage with low altitude?

Besides that, it's naichaca doing calculations. Probably it was less than 6.5 w/kg.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Yesterday Vingegaard did 6.2 W/kg for half an hour. In the Tour of Norway 2022, Remco did 6.5 W/kg for half an hour.

Sure, there's the usual caveat of this being an effort after two weeks in the TDF at the end of a hard stage (although the stage in Norway also had quite some intensity beforehand) vs. a one week stage race, but Remco is a two time LBL and single Vuelta winner (among other victories), so he should have sufficient endurance and recovery.

Feel free to disagree. Maybe Pogacar will do Vuelta after the TDF defeat?

Vingegaard Destroys Tadej Pogačar in Week 3 | Tour de France 2023 Stages 16 & 17 - Lanterne Rouge

Jonas Vingegaard performed exceptionally well at the beginning of this third week of the Tour de France, winning the time-trial on Stage 16 with one of the greatest performances of all time, and on the Queen Stage the next day being the fastest from the GC group. In this article we will take a...

lanternerouge.com

Remco Evenepoel Produces The Best Climbing Performance of 2022 - Lanterne Rouge

While the Giro d'Italia is receiving the most attention, the Tour of Norway stage 3 did not disappoint at all, with Remco Evenepoel doing an unbelievable climbing performance on the queen stage that ended with the steep Gaustatoppen-Stavsro climb (10.5 km, 8.7%).

lanternerouge.com

Vinge & Pog did 6.5 w/kg for almost half an hour on Joux Plane, at a higher altitude, at the end of hard-ridden, multi-col stage and after 2 weeks of racing. Try to beat that.

 

[Netserk]

Yesterday Vingegaard did 6.2 W/kg for half an hour. In the Tour of Norway 2022, Remco did 6.5 W/kg for half an hour.

Sure, there's the usual caveat of this being an effort after two weeks in the TDF at the end of a hard stage (although the stage in Norway also had quite some intensity beforehand) vs. a one week stage race, but Remco is a two time LBL and single Vuelta winner (among other victories), so he should have sufficient endurance and recovery.

Feel free to disagree. Maybe Pogacar will do Vuelta after the TDF defeat?

Vingegaard Destroys Tadej Pogačar in Week 3 | Tour de France 2023 Stages 16 & 17 - Lanterne Rouge

Jonas Vingegaard performed exceptionally well at the beginning of this third week of the Tour de France, winning the time-trial on Stage 16 with one of the greatest performances of all time, and on the Queen Stage the next day being the fastest from the GC group. In this article we will take a...

lanternerouge.com

Remco Evenepoel Produces The Best Climbing Performance of 2022 - Lanterne Rouge

While the Giro d'Italia is receiving the most attention, the Tour of Norway stage 3 did not disappoint at all, with Remco Evenepoel doing an unbelievable climbing performance on the queen stage that ended with the steep Gaustatoppen-Stavsro climb (10.5 km, 8.7%).

lanternerouge.com

Lol. You couldn't have picked two less comparable performances. Start by correcting for altitude, at least. Then note the different efforts before the segments in question.

Borderline dishonest behaviour from you so far.

 

[Salvarani]

Lol. You couldn't have picked two less comparable performances. Start by correcting for altitude, at least. Then note the different efforts before the segments in question.

Borderline dishonest behaviour from you so far.

Lots of that going on all over the forum by the look things at the moment.

 

[Scarponi]

It's not just about keep up with vingo in the mountains or in the TT, the question mark is if remco can survive physically during 3 weeks the way Jumbo races. They make the race hard everyday, then everyone is buried physically. They can do that because the harder, the better for vingegaard. He is the best in terms of recovery, not just in terms of pure watts.

And the days they don’t make it hard, UAE are making it decently hard too. Remco has only completed a small easy Veulta. Next year Pog will come back thermonuclear and so will Vinge. Boy wonder will be back with Hindley

 

[Angelo1985]

Lets get Remco thermonuclear as well then. Remco with the same support as with Jumbo Visma destroys the whole peloton. The asfalt gets ridden out of the ground.

 

[Tem]

Lets get Remco thermonuclear as well then. Remco with the same support as with Jumbo Visma destroys the whole peloton. The asfalt gets ridden out of the grond.

GROND!! GROND!! GROND!!