Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

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He planned it yesterday. Knew he couldn't compete .. in reality...for gc ...so best to just take a rest day and go for a mountain stage win. Say he cried..etc. Gotta hand it to him it's great for PR...look at all of the posts of how awesome the turnaround was. But he isn't a real gc contender around real in shape gc contenders. Domestiques do this all the time. Lose many minutes then lead the peleton. It's all planned. Remco would rather to not try alline yesterday than appear to try and be trounced. Then come back next day and be let in a breakaway because the real riders ...gc riders..know he is out. But let all the heroes have their day.
Bardet would not agree. You csn't be that off the day before and have the power to rebound that way to be out of the game. Let's see over the next seasons.
 
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I'm a big fan, but have to admit his competitors totally *** up the 2022 worlds.
Him winning that race is basically in the same manner as Sepp winning this Vuelta.
Nothing wrong, but not totally won with the legs.
He rode away at +50km's and did a +25km solo on top of it. He was the best that day. If everyone has to be 100%, then we have to put an * at every race. Liege this year, Pogacar fell. Roglic won Giro => Remco had covid. Vingegaard won TDF, Pogacar fell in Liege. MVDP won Roubaix, WVA had a puncture. No one apparently deserves their victory.
 
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He rode away at +50km's and did a +25km solo on top of it. He was the best that day. If everyone has to be 100%, then we have to put an * at every race. Liege this year, Pogacar fell. Roglic won Giro => Remco had covid. Vingegaard won TDF, Pogacar fell in Liege. MVDP won Roubaix, WVA had a puncture. No one apparently deserves their victory.
I didn't note anyone suggested he didn't deserve any of these wins. But the WC RR had a very strange tactical feel at that 50km and reactions were non-existent. No one doubted Remco's ability IMO but everyone seemed to wait for another commitment to bring him back until there was no chance. It happens and the rightful guy won the race.
 
He rode away at +50km's and did a +25km solo on top of it. He was the best that day. If everyone has to be 100%, then we have to put an * at every race. Liege this year, Pogacar fell. Roglic won Giro => Remco had covid. Vingegaard won TDF, Pogacar fell in Liege. MVDP won Roubaix, WVA had a puncture. No one apparently deserves their victory.
"He was the best that day"... because the way the race panned out we'll never know. That doesn't mean he didn't deserve to win, of course. Those are two different things.
 
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We have seen Remco up against MVDP, Pog and WVA and he didn’t fare well.
This is the obvious way of thinking after the WC this year, but if we actually look at other results with these riders in the same race it’s not that clear at all if we look at head to head, and looking at head to head is very relevant when you say he didn’t fare well when facing these riders.

(just to be clear, I think that Pogacar overall is the best rider in the world, MVDP is clearly superior in races with short hills and Wout is better in races that ends with sprints, and of course all three are better than Remco on cobbles)

We can start with Pogacar as he’s the number 1 in the world imo and I’m using the PCS head to head overview.
They have only 23 race days (+ Tirrenk GC) in common and Pogacar is 13-11.

Out of these 24 races 5 is ITTs and Remco is winning here 5-0. No surprise.
The only stage race they’ve done together is last year Tirreno which Pocagar won 7-1.

If we look at one day races (non TT) they’ve been in 12 races together and it’s 6-6. Interesting to point out that Remco has won 4 of these races (Sebastian 19+22, WC22 & LBL23), Pogacar has won 1 (Lombardia 21).
Pogacar clearly smashed Remco in Tirreno last and in the WC this year and I can totally understand that this is moments that are easy to remember and therefore natural to color the views of the difference between them.

Then we can jump to Mathieu and this is pretty quick. They have only 11 race days in common + Algarve GC and the results show 8-4 to Remco, but 6-0 of these comes from Algarve 2020 that Remco won and Mathieu just used as training.
The other 2-4 is the non-relevant Danilth Noekere Koerse 2019 (Remco 57, Mathieu DNF) and WC 22 for Remco, while Mathieu has WC 2019, 2021 and 2023 + the Lombardia where Remco crashed.
Conclusion: they are basically never racing against each other and they both won at WC title when the other were not relevant in the race when it got decided.

Then we can take WVA.
They have 20 race days in common + Suisse GC and Remco is up 11-10.
Tour de Suisse this year count for 7-1 in favor of Remco, no surprise as he rode for GC and Wout was training for the Tour.
What is interesting is that until the end of 2021 season Wout beat Remco every time they faced each other and he was up 7-0 by the end of WC 2021.
If we look at the seasons of 22 and 23 and remove Tour de Suisse they have faced each other in 4 one day races and 2 one of ITTs, and Remco is up 4-2 in these 6 races. More interesting is that Remco won these four races (LBL22, WC22, NC23 and WC ITT23) while Wout won the NC ITT23 and was second in the WC23.

In the 13 one day races and championships ITTs they’ve ridden together and only look at race wins they have 7 in total. Remco have 2 WC Jersey, a monument and a NC jersey. Wout has 3 NC jerseys.

Given the actual head to head I think Remco have been doing pretty well. Pogacar has a better head to head, Remco and Mathieu have a basically non-existent head to head and Remco have a clearly better head to head versus Wout in the two last seasons and a pretty even over the whole career.

And all 4 of them have only races 3 races together, the WCs of 21, 22 and 23. Result is 1 rainbow jersey for Remco, 1 for Mathieu, 1 Silver for Wout and 1 bronze for Pogacar. So basically we have a way too small sample size to say that Remco don’t fare well against Pogacar, Mathieu and especially Wout (one can here make a joke about Wout once again being mentioned in the category of Pogacar and Mathieu when it’s not deserved).
 
Sure he fake cried… Seriously how *** up are you mentally to think such a thing. Are you a teenager or just an adult with no empathy for anyone besides the people close to you?
I have been watching every race for the last 25 years. I don't post much. Ohhh didn't expect that did you. Pogi for instance stays in there and tries even when beaten. remco is all about publicity. Could have stayed in and tried and lost as a GC rider, and suffered, but takes a rest and does these gimmick rides. As I said the bar for heroes is lower these days. Did he cry after today's stage ?
 
A quote that is valuable for everyone here who doesn't doubt his own assessment about Remco:

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." (Bertrand Russell)

Lately, this thread is flooded by people that are clearly no fan or neutral poster, clearly miss many details about him and his past achievements but still make statements about him with complete certainty. Evidence is needed or it has no value. If it is only a personal feeling or a thought, make sure you say "I think" or "I feel". If you are here because of an emotional issue such as envy, being annoyed by Remco or Remco fans or just hatred, I suggest to expose yourself. You may feel better and we don't waste our time answering.
 
A quote that is valuable for everyone here who doesn't doubt his own assessment about Remco:

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." (Bertrand Russell)

Do you doubt your assessment about Remco? (for the record, I'm still not sure about mine, but this Vuelta gave me some valuable "evidence" as you would say)
 
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A quote that is valuable for everyone here who doesn't doubt his own assessment about Remco:

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." (Bertrand Russell)

Lately, this thread is flooded by people that are clearly no fan or neutral poster, clearly miss many details about him and his past achievements but still make statements about him with complete certainty. Evidence is needed or it has no value. If it is only a personal feeling or a thought, make sure you say "I think" or "I feel". If you are here because of an emotional issue such as envy, being annoyed by Remco or Remco fans or just hatred, I suggest to expose yourself. You may feel better and we don't waste our time answering.
Well there were some of us who doubted he can present a real GC challenge against a top quality field in a grand tour. I raised my doubts a couple of weeks before this Vuelta and was ridiculed and even labelled a troll. My doubt was, as it turns out, in order. I did not have any specific evidence - just a hunch based on observing his riding which to me looked a bit erratic. And you don’t want erratic when building and sustaining a GC threat.

At that time I said more is to be revealed during this Vuelta and my assessment now is more firm than before: Remco is not a top GT challenger yet (despite winning one). Hard to pinpoint what he lacks - I’d go with consistency and maturity. He does not strike me as a guy who is confident enough in his ability to wait out patiently when it doesn’t matter and strike when it counts. Like Vingegaard, to give you the most obvious example. It looks like he feels pressure to confirm he’s a real threat and that takes away his energy and his focus. I assume this is something that can be greatly improved over time if he chooses to continue to pursue his GT ambitions. Which I think he should - he’s got a solid base to work on. Just not a top dog yet.

I know this is something you guys (his fans) don’t want to hear, but this opinion is not based on jealousy, hatred or schadenfreude… It’s a valid opinion which is - for the time being - in my opinion reflected by his performance.

Ironically, this cost many of us cycling fans an opportunity for a great race that will now turn into a TJV snoozefest and an orchestrated result that many of us will not be happy with…

Bottom line for me: he should stop hiding and go directly at the beast itself. Go to the Tour. He’s got a great chance now to go under the radar a bit and try to produce a decent GC result. It will help him mature and gain him valuable experience for future GT efforts.
 
He rode away at +50km's and did a +25km solo on top of it. He was the best that day. If everyone has to be 100%, then we have to put an * at every race. Liege this year, Pogacar fell. Roglic won Giro => Remco had covid. Vingegaard won TDF, Pogacar fell in Liege. MVDP won Roubaix, WVA had a puncture. No one apparently deserves their victory.
Its obvious i never said he didn't deserve his victory. Winners deserve their victory. Full stop.
That includes Costa today.
Remco might have been the strongest that day at the worlds but he won primarily because he was allowed into that breakaway and it wasn't chased down.

He totally deserved his victory, but it is not the same type of win as MVDP at the worlds this year, or in fact any recent worlds like with
Alaphillipe, Valverde, Sagan where they won attacking or sprinting from a group of the best in a more attritional race
 
This is the obvious way of thinking after the WC this year, but if we actually look at other results with these riders in the same race it’s not that clear at all if we look at head to head, and looking at head to head is very relevant when you say he didn’t fare well when facing these riders.

(just to be clear, I think that Pogacar overall is the best rider in the world, MVDP is clearly superior in races with short hills and Wout is better in races that ends with sprints, and of course all three are better than Remco on cobbles)

We can start with Pogacar as he’s the number 1 in the world imo and I’m using the PCS head to head overview.
They have only 23 race days (+ Tirrenk GC) in common and Pogacar is 13-11.

Out of these 24 races 5 is ITTs and Remco is winning here 5-0. No surprise.
The only stage race they’ve done together is last year Tirreno which Pocagar won 7-1.

If we look at one day races (non TT) they’ve been in 12 races together and it’s 6-6. Interesting to point out that Remco has won 4 of these races (Sebastian 19+22, WC22 & LBL23), Pogacar has won 1 (Lombardia 21).
Pogacar clearly smashed Remco in Tirreno last and in the WC this year and I can totally understand that this is moments that are easy to remember and therefore natural to color the views of the difference between them.

Then we can jump to Mathieu and this is pretty quick. They have only 11 race days in common + Algarve GC and the results show 8-4 to Remco, but 6-0 of these comes from Algarve 2020 that Remco won and Mathieu just used as training.
The other 2-4 is the non-relevant Danilth Noekere Koerse 2019 (Remco 57, Mathieu DNF) and WC 22 for Remco, while Mathieu has WC 2019, 2021 and 2023 + the Lombardia where Remco crashed.
Conclusion: they are basically never racing against each other and they both won at WC title when the other were not relevant in the race when it got decided.

Then we can take WVA.
They have 20 race days in common + Suisse GC and Remco is up 11-10.
Tour de Suisse this year count for 7-1 in favor of Remco, no surprise as he rode for GC and Wout was training for the Tour.
What is interesting is that until the end of 2021 season Wout beat Remco every time they faced each other and he was up 7-0 by the end of WC 2021.
If we look at the seasons of 22 and 23 and remove Tour de Suisse they have faced each other in 4 one day races and 2 one of ITTs, and Remco is up 4-2 in these 6 races. More interesting is that Remco won these four races (LBL22, WC22, NC23 and WC ITT23) while Wout won the NC ITT23 and was second in the WC23.

In the 13 one day races and championships ITTs they’ve ridden together and only look at race wins they have 7 in total. Remco have 2 WC Jersey, a monument and a NC jersey. Wout has 3 NC jerseys.

Given the actual head to head I think Remco have been doing pretty well. Pogacar has a better head to head, Remco and Mathieu have a basically non-existent head to head and Remco have a clearly better head to head versus Wout in the two last seasons and a pretty even over the whole career.

And all 4 of them have only races 3 races together, the WCs of 21, 22 and 23. Result is 1 rainbow jersey for Remco, 1 for Mathieu, 1 Silver for Wout and 1 bronze for Pogacar. So basically we have a way too small sample size to say that Remco don’t fare well against Pogacar, Mathieu and especially Wout (one can here make a joke about Wout once again being mentioned in the category of Pogacar and Mathieu when it’s not deserved).
That’s a good recollection and summary and it shows he can perform. The guy is not a pushover or a fad. One of his strongest performances was the win in LBL.

Still you agree that each of Pog, MVDP and WVA are better at certain terrain such as PR and RVV, MSR and several lesser 1D classics but also at the GTs when there are mountains. Which really was my point.

Remco is a superb TT rider with excellent breakaway skills and can win hilly one day classics and potentially GTs when circumstances are right. However this year’s GTs plus the World Championship showed that he comes up short against the specialists.
 
That’s a good recollection and summary and it shows he can perform. The guy is not a pushover or a fad. One of his strongest performances was the win in LBL.

Still you agree that each of Pog, MVDP and WVA are better at certain terrain such as PR and RVV, MSR and several lesser 1D classics but also at the GTs when there are mountains. Which really was my point.

Remco is a superb TT rider with excellent breakaway skills and can win hilly one day classics and potentially GTs when circumstances are right. However this year’s GTs plus the World Championship showed that he comes up short against the specialists.

Or he needs to ride to his strengths, which is aggressive and attacking. Sitting on plays into the hands of the Vingegaards
 

ALC

Feb 22, 2023
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