Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[red_flanders]

The real question is when will he do Flanders?

Don't know, but he did mention adding another monument to his schedule next year. Don't think it's gonna be Roubaix. MSR or Flanders I guess...

 

[houtdffan]

Don't know, but he did mention adding another monument to his schedule next year. Don't think it's gonna be Roubaix. MSR or Flanders I guess...

He said MSR and RVV has to wait

 

[Berniece]

I’m most confused about what Remco’s ambition is long term? Does he want to be a GC guy? Does he want to be a one day guy who wins stages occasionally?

I thought he was all out on GC but I’m not convinced he’ll be able to hold on to Vinge or even Pog, especially if his attitude is to just hang on. Will he go the full traditional one day stage races before the TDF and do less one days?

He’s a I want it all guy. 1-day, 1-week and GT’s.

He also just being realistic. He’s aware he didn’t have the legs in the Vuelta to follow Vingegaard, and the Giro was over before it started. So he has no clue at the moment at what level he’s able to perform.

 

[Mina.S]

He’s a I want it all guy. 1-day, 1-week and GT’s.

He also just being realistic. He’s aware he didn’t have the legs in the Vuelta to follow Vingegaard, and the Giro was over before it started. So he has no clue at the moment at what level he’s able to perform.

I get he is in theory a want it all guy but I am not sold he can successfully get it all. He can't seem to stay at a consistently high level even though he is doing a lot of training + altitude. Maybe he just needs to rethink his program?

 

[tobydawq]

I get he is in theory a want it all guy but I am not sold he can successfully get it all. He can't seem to stay at a consistently high level even though he is doing a lot of training + altitude. Maybe he just needs to rethink his program?

Why exactly? It isn't like his focus on Grand Tours greatly compromises his one-day race palmarès.

 

[Berniece]

I get he is in theory a want it all guy but I am not sold he can successfully get it all. He can't seem to stay at a consistently high level even though he is doing a lot of training + altitude. Maybe he just needs to rethink his program?

Maybe wait until he’s at least 27 years old, and failed a couple of times hard in a GT before making such conclusions. There is still room to grow, and this year is not a proper benchmark to validate his GT possibilities against.

 

[Salvarani]

I get he is in theory a want it all guy but I am not sold he can successfully get it all. He can't seem to stay at a consistently high level even though he is doing a lot of training + altitude. Maybe he just needs to rethink his program?

LBL-Worlds ITT/RR-San Sebastian for eternity.

Stage-hunt in GTs.

Win a couple of stage-races 1. Pro.

TDU, UAE Tour, Catalunya, Romandie, Tour de Pologne and Renewi Tour are probably the WT-stage races that suits him the best.

Other wins in hilly one-day races is possible.

It will amount to a few more wins, but the biggest races will be difficult.

 

[Extinction]

Today's cycling, as much as talent, seems to be which team and consequenty, which system one finds oneself in, matters most. Before the Lombardia crash the sky seemed to be the limit, but Quickstep was a team in transition and then a series of setbacks and poor planning has altered that perception. Had those setbacks not occured, perhaps we'd know more, but the problem with Quickstep remains. Let's see what a setback free season with optional prep produces. If he continues to struggle, Remco will have to take a long, hard look in the mirror, but we don't know otherwise with his youth and talent. Yet he will need the right team system to afford a Tour win, like any top contender. I don't see that at Quickstep. Once upon a time, talent was enough for the cream to rise to the top. But this is no longer the case. The question thus arrises, would Vingegaard or Pogacar have achieved the same GT results on Quickstep? All things else being equal?

 

[Berniece]

Today's cycling, as much as talent, seems to be which team and consequenty, which system one finds himself in, matters most. Before the Lombardia crash the sky seemed to be the limit, but Quickstep was a team in transition and then a series of setbacks and poor planning has altered that perception. Had those setbacks not occurred, perhaps we'd know more, but the problem with Quickstep remains. Let's see what a setback free season with optional prep produces. If he continues to struggle, Remco will have to take a long, hard look in the mirror, but we don't know otherwise with his youth and talent. Yet he will need the right team system to afford a Tour win, like any top contender. I don't see that at Quickstep. Once upon a time, talent was enough for the cream to rise to the top. But this is no longer the case. The question thus arrises, would Vingegaard or Pogacar have achieved the same GT results on Quickstep? All things else being equal?

Pogacar would, Vingegaard not sure

 

[memyselfandI]

INEOS found it too expensive otherwise they would’ve already paid that price

Kinda strange as Ineos is huge company and sponsoring so widely across different sports that one might think IG is maybe smallest of them all as expenditure. But ofc there upper limit for everyone and everything.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Kinda strange as Ineos is huge company and sponsoring so widely across different sports that one might think IG is maybe smallest of them all as expenditure. But ofc there upper limit for everyone and everything.

Ratcliffe is having an old age crisis and trying to buy the train wreck that is Manchester United. As a City fan I look forward to him doing as well there as he has at Ineos.

 

[Elos Anjos]

Today's cycling, as much as talent, seems to be which team and consequenty, which system one finds himself in, matters most. Before the Lombardia crash the sky seemed to be the limit, but Quickstep was a team in transition and then a series of setbacks and poor planning has altered that perception. Had those setbacks not occurred, perhaps we'd know more, but the problem with Quickstep remains. Let's see what a setback free season with optional prep produces. If he continues to struggle, Remco will have to take a long, hard look in the mirror, but we don't know otherwise with his youth and talent. Yet he will need the right team system to afford a Tour win, like any top contender. I don't see that at Quickstep. Once upon a time, talent was enough for the cream to rise to the top. But this is no longer the case. The question thus arrises, would Vingegaard or Pogacar have achieved the same GT results on Quickstep? All things else being equal?

Pogacar is a freak, he would pull any team with his performances.
Vingegaard is also a freak, but I reckon is more a sort of lab rat than Pogi. He's the perfect responder to science sports programs that tweak his potentiality. That depends on the team he is at the moment.
Remco would undoubtedely develop capabilities at a team with a intensive scientific approach. But he's not there so I think he's at a career defining moment where he has to find out if he's a GT rider or not. I think he's not build that way, unfortunately.

 

[Panda Claws]

Evenepoel is literally a more accomplished GT rider at 23 than almost anyone in recent decades.
Even haters must admit that he was looking at a decent Giro result too before covid.

Only riders who did better are Pogacar, Bernal, Cunego is about even, A. Schleck perhaps, ...
Perhaps a few names can be added to this but the criticism is insane.

How long did it take Roglic to raise his level coming from a different sport?

 

[AmRacer]

Rem

Evenepoel is literally a more accomplished GT rider at 23 than almost anyone in recent decades.
Even haters must admit that he was looking at a decent Giro result too before covid.

Only riders who did better are Pogacar, Bernal, Cunego is about even, A. Schleck perhaps, ...
Perhaps a few names can be added to this but the criticism is insane.

How long did it take Roglic to raise his level coming from a different sport?

Remco, you have 1 victory, 2 DNF's and 1 result which doesn't count.
That's the reality. Your win would be Roglas if he hadn't crashed.

 

[Panda Claws]

Rem

Remco, you have 1 victory, 2 DNF's and 1 result which doesn't count.
That's the reality. Your win would be Roglas if he hadn't crashed.

That's a shitty response.

My post is about how his pedigree is great for a 23 year old despite what people here would have you believe. I listed and admitted several outliers who did even better but he has nonetheless still performed among the best in this category.

You moan about how Roglic would have won byt completely neglect Evenepoel having horrendous luck at the Giro.

You moan about this as if my point would have been substantially different if Remco had had been 2nd in a close contest with Roglic instead of winning.

The whole idea that Remco cannot perform in GT's is based on the idea that some guy who was a soccer not too long ago, riding for a non-gt team has somehow peaked in this regard at 23.

I will even admit that Evenepoel benefits from a time and age where riders can get results at a younger age but so did Bernal and Pogacar. He's had his fair share of injury and bad luck though.

Fine by me if you want to say Evenepoel will not be a GT threat. You can make that bet. I just think it's crazy to assume he peaked and I will gladly argue that few were better at his age which has historically always been taken as a good sign regarding future prospects. Not when it concerns Evenepoel though apparently.

 

[Netserk]

How long did it take Roglic to raise his level coming from a different sport?

He won the Vuelta in his 4th WT season. Just like Evenepoel did.

 

[red_flanders]

Rem

Remco, you have 1 victory, 2 DNF's and 1 result which doesn't count.
That's the reality. Your win would be Roglas if he hadn't crashed.

Yes, when Roglič crashes out that counts for him and against Remco. There's a rational analysis.

Never mind that it was his own damn fault he crashed. His move was completely idiotic. Not unlike the above post.

 

[Berniece]

He won the Vuelta in his 4th WT season. Just like Evenepoel did.

Was he also 22 and did he have a near life ending crash?

 

[Salvarani]

Evenepoel is literally a more accomplished GT rider at 23 than almost anyone in recent decades.

?

It is a difference between saying that he is an accomplished GT rider and accomplished rider.

 

[Salvarani]

Was he also 22 and did he have a near life ending crash?

No, he was only 17 when he almost died.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

That's the reality. Your win would be Roglas if he hadn't crashed.

Are you here talking about the crash in the Tour that probably altered his preparations to the Vuelta or are you talking about the crash where Roglic had to abandon the Vuelta?

 

[Extinction]

Pogacar is a freak, he would pull any team with his performances.
Vingegaard is also a freak, but I reckon is more a sort of lab rat than Pogi. He's the perfect responder to science sports programs that tweak his potentiality. That depends on the team he is at the moment.
Remco would undoubtedely develop capabilities at a team with a intensive scientific approach. But he's not there so I think he's at a career defining moment where he has to find out if he's a GT rider or not. I think he's not build that way, unfortunately.

I don't know if Vingegaard is any less a "freak" or whether it depends on program qualities. He has expunged Pogacar twice. This is the only evidence we have to go on. As for Evenepoel, if Remco can't climb with them in an optimal situation, then the Tour is beyond him.

 

[hender-retour]

I hope Remco will show up at the the next 2-3 years of the TDF so we will know for sure if it is his "thing". He can have a glorious career with a win sheet like Valverde but all people talk about is the TDF. I think the team (not QS but family, fans etc) around him have made it so. But I do think he wakes up every morning thinking about winning the TDF. Not because other people say so but because it is in his DNA to be the best at everything. My analysis is that he needs a team like Jumbo or Ineos and weaker competition than current 2 hot shots to bag 2-3 TDF.'s. Will it happen; I dunno.

 

[houtdffan]

I hope Remco will show up at the the next 2-3 years of the TDF so we will know for sure if it is his "thing". He can have a glorious career with a win sheet like Valverde but all people talk about is the TDF. I think the team (not QS but family, fans etc) around him have made it so. But I do think he wakes up every morning thinking about winning the TDF. Not because other people say so but because it is in his DNA to be the best at everything. My analysis is that he needs a team like Jumbo or Ineos and weaker competition than current 2 hot shots to bag 2-3 TDF.'s. Will it happen; I dunno.

he'd have a far better chance if we went back to traditional GTs

Next year's giro appears to be one such GT. Need to see how long the first ITT at the TDF is. If Gouvenou puts in a 50-60km ITT, then the calculus changes significantly

 

[witeken]

Rem

Remco, you have 1 victory, 2 DNF's and 1 result which doesn't count.
That's the reality. Your win would be Roglas if he hadn't crashed.

He won the Vuelta in his 4th WT season. Just like Evenepoel did.

This is omitting the fact he was scheduled to go to the 2020 Giro before COVID and his crash happened. If he had won that one, he probably would have gone to the Tour from 2021 onwards already, meaning by now we would have had 3 TDF worth of data points of Evenepoel vs. Pogacar, Vingegaard, instead of 0. Effectively, his crash and team's mismanagement set his career back by 3 years.

I'm not saying he would have defeated these two (easily), but if you're among the best, you should compete against the best.