Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Krzysztof_O]

Sorry, felt like you were taking the piss.

Sometimes I can't help myself making fun of people or situations but yeah, you probably have a point regarding that TT.

 

[Extinction]

Maybe, but this year everything went perfect.

The Giro route was super light, no competition there(i overestimated this edition of the Giro) and then in the Tour, the competition didn't had a proper preparation due to injuries. Everything went perfect, there wasn't also some bad luck like some crash or sickness.

I think Evenepoel should now try the double. He might finally get the Giro and if Pogacar and Vingegaard are on the same level or better next Tour, he's really got nothing to lose.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Maybe, but this year everything went perfect.

The Giro route was super light, no competition there(i overestimated this edition of the Giro) and then in the Tour, the competition didn't had a proper preparation due to injuries. Everything went perfect, there wasn't also some bad luck like some crash or sickness.

You really don't need to belittle the magitude of this Giro-Tour double. The competition at the Tour was among the strongest ever: the 2nd and 3rd guy would've demolished the field in absurd fashion without the other two present and they both showed great climbing/time-trialing level.

 

[Froome]

I think Evenepoel should now try the double. He might finally get the Giro and if Pogacar and Vingegaard are on the same level or better next Tour, he's really got nothing to lose.

Probably Pogacar will be at the Giro next year. The Giro will go trough Slovenia right?

 

[Froome]

You really don't need to belittle the magitude of this Giro-Tour double. The competition at the Tour was among the strongest ever: the 2nd and 3rd guy would've demolished the field in absurd fashion without the other two present and they both showed great climbing/time-trialing level.

It can be the strongest competition ever, and at the same time, the other top riders not be able to do the best preparation possible after what happened in April. I'm not talking just about Vingegaard.

 

[Valanga]

Probably Pogacar will be at the Giro next year. The Giro will go trough Slovenia right?

If he wins the worlds this year, I assume he'll go for the triple next year and race Giro, TdF and Vuelta. Because why not...

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It can be the strongest competition ever, and at the same time, the other top riders not be able to do the best preparation possible after what happened in April.

Still, Pog showed the highest level ever seen and dominated strong competition in spectacular fashion. It's not like he barely won while being on fumes cause his competition totally collapsed at the end. If you question this kind of performance then basically we can question any achievement in cycling history (there are always some what ifs, buts etc)

Sure, with better preparation Vingo could've been stronger (he was still strong, you can't deny it) but it's pure speculation wheather he would've beaten this Pogacar.

 

[Froome]

Still, Pog showed the highest level ever seen and dominated strong competition in spectacular fashion. It's not like he barely won while being on fumes cause his competition totally collapsed at the end. If you question this kind of performance then basically we can question any achievement in cycling history.

Sure, with better preparation Vingo could've been stronger (he was still strong, you can't deny it) but it's pure speculation wheather he would've beaten this Pogacar.

I'm not taking anything away for UAE and Pogacar. I'm just saying everything went perfect, including the external factors they can't control.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Still, Pog showed the highest level ever seen and dominated strong competition in spectacular fashion. It's not like he barely won while being on fumes cause his competition totally collapsed at the end. If you question this kind of performance then basically we can question any achievement in cycling history (there are always some what ifs, buts etc)

Sure, with better preparation Vingo could've been stronger (he was still strong, you can't deny it) but it's pure speculation wheather he would've beaten this Pogacar.

Its pure speculation, when Pogacar pulls of an all-time performance with absolutely insane w/kg, great descending, amazing awareness in echelons, great time trialing and elite explosivity, chances are Jonas still has no chance. No point in giving him the benefit of the doubt when we have seen what we have seen this year. This is by far the best pure climbing performance across the board over 3 weeks, and when you add all time great versaility on top of that, there's no point speculating for me. Tadej would have wiped every GT-rider in the history of the sport including Jonas. This is literally the perfect GT rider and the most perfect race I have ever seen. People can only refer to Le Lioran when he was in "trouble".

Now next year will be fun.

 

[memyselfandI]

I think Evenepoel should now try the double. He might finally get the Giro and if Pogacar and Vingegaard are on the same level or better next Tour, he's really got nothing to lose.

I guess he's not going to do it because OG so soon after Tour so he's been on a quite long run w/ injuries as an extra. But for a Giro he would benefit from big second half of the year meaning Tour+Giro+some extra that gives big supercompensation and good start for the Giro target season.

 

[GuntherL1]

No Olympics for Pogacar because he's 'tired'. Do we have the three same favorites as in Glasgow last year + REv instead of Pogacar? This looks to be a very good opportunity for REv as the teams are small (UK has five riders, 4 teams have four). I hope all four Belgians can maintain their TdF form.

 

[Extinction]

Probably Pogacar will be at the Giro next year. The Giro will go trough Slovenia right?

They are devious at the Giro

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Sure, with better preparation Vingo could've been stronger (he was still strong, you can't deny it) but it's pure speculation wheather he would've beaten this Pogacar.

I think Vingo's peak wouldn't have been a lot higher than what it was, but he would have been a lot more consistent. He wouldn't have had those bad days in the last week and would have lost less time to Pogacar overall. But i don't think he would have come close to beating him. That doesn't mean he can't beat him again in the future. I think Visma now knows they need another angle, different training regime, tactics...

Both Vingegaard as well as Evenepoel could have been closer had everything gone to plan, had neither crashed in Itzulia. Evenepoel could have been where Vingegaard ended up, and Vingegaard could have cut his losses in half. Basically, Vingegaard at 3, Evenepoel at 6 minutes. Something like that seems realistic.

 

[houtdffan]

I think Vingo's peak wouldn't have been a lot higher than what it was, but he would have been a lot more consistent. He wouldn't have had those bad days in the last week and would have lost less time to Pogacar overall. But i don't think he would have come close to beating him. That doesn't mean he can't beat him again in the future. I think Visma now knows they need another angle, different training regime, tactics...

Both Vingegaard as well as Evenepoel could have been closer had everything gone to plan, had neither crashed in Itzulia. Evenepoel could have been where Vingegaard ended up, and Vingegaard could have cut his losses in half. Basically, Vingegaard at 3, Evenepoel at 6 minutes. Something like that seems realistic.

Think Remco would have been 2-3 minutes back if he didn't crash and eat studels

He likely would have stayed with Vingo on stage 11 and on Pla D'Adet. Maybe saved another minute on Plateau de Beille. Likely drops Vingo on Isola (but finishes 30 seconds down to Pog) and stays with him on Couillole

 

[red_flanders]

Remco gotta learn how to ride that bike. No energy waste to catch up for bad descending. I wonder if that might not be his biggest limiter right now. Such a waste of effort and advantage. So exploitable in a close race.

 

[Coffeeplanter]

No Olympics for Pogacar because he's 'tired'. Do we have the three same favorites as in Glasgow last year + REv instead of Pogacar? This looks to be a very good opportunity for REv as the teams are small (UK has five riders, 4 teams have four). I hope all four Belgians can maintain their TdF form.

In my opinion, if we're purely speaking about what you can control, it will be easier for Remco to win the road race than he will to win the time trial, especially after yesterdays news of the no-show of Pogacar. The latter comes down, mostly, to form of the day between Remco, Ganna and Tarling. The margins between them on such a course are rather small. If Ganna and/or Tarling have a good day and Remco has a normal day he ain't winning.

The road race, on the other hand, will be chaos galore. You can win even on your worst day. It might be comparable to Glasgow in vertical meters, but hardly in the amount of corners. Most of the riders said Glasgow was the hardest race they had ever done due to the amount of turns, and the amount of times they had to break and accelerate. Essentially it was a CX race on tarmac, which is where Van der Poel shines and nobody on the planet comes remotely close.

Paris will see a lot more straight roads, it's more than 200k before we hit the circuit and with the amount of riders on every team, is impossible to control. This is where Remco shines. One moment of hesitation, and he is gone, with Wout sitting in the wheels. This almost somewhat succeeded in Glasgow, which was probably the worst course they could ever draw up for Remco, because he is terrible at cornering and not as explosive coming out of them compared to Van der Poel, Pedersen, Pogacar and Wout. It would just so happen that Van der Poel lost his biggest ally in Pogacar, and Pedersen might not be 100% after crash.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Congratulations on finishing third in one of the hardest Tour edition and proving all the doubters wrong.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think Vingo's peak wouldn't have been a lot higher than what it was, but he would have been a lot more consistent. He wouldn't have had those bad days in the last week and would have lost less time to Pogacar overall. But i don't think he would have come close to beating him. That doesn't mean he can't beat him again in the future. I think Visma now knows they need another angle, different training regime, tactics...

Both Vingegaard as well as Evenepoel could have been closer had everything gone to plan, had neither crashed in Itzulia. Evenepoel could have been where Vingegaard ended up, and Vingegaard could have cut his losses in half. Basically, Vingegaard at 3, Evenepoel at 6 minutes. Something like that seems realistic.

It's clear that Vingo underperformed during some key stages i.e. 19 or 14 and rushed preparations likely were the cause. It's logical that it would've been closer. As for the future, who knows? Maybe Vingo will come back super strong next year smashing his rivals.

 

[Keldergoat]

Lol, then they really are idiots. He said he never pushed bigger watts in a TT... But he got beat by Foss who never before and never since reached that level, yet who did a meticulous prep/recon of the course. Analist all agreed Evenepoel lost it in the corners.

Didn't he get third in that WC, not second? Did Kung than also lose the WC due to poor cornering?

I don't know about Evenepoel's descending record, I actually have seen him descending really well after his Lombardia crash (I recall a Tour de Basque stage where he was regaining time on Bilbao on a super technical descent and last year's Giro first week he showed some tremendous downhilling as well). It looks like it took a blow again after this year's crash because at the Galibier it looked horrible indeed.

 

[Berniece]

Didn't he get third in that WC, not second? Did Kung than also lose the WC due to poor cornering?

Kung just isn't as good a TT'er as Evenepoel. Kung went fast in the corners, just not as fast on the straight sections.

 

[Berflamand]

Didn't he get third in that WC, not second? Did Kung than also lose the WC due to poor cornering?

Kung is one of the very best at cornering on his TT bike so no Kung didn't lose the WC due to poor cornering, he actually won a silver medal ahead of Remco because of excellent cornering.

IIRC, Remco and his entourage did acknowledge his average/poor cornering during this WC which lost him the title but they blamed it mostly on mental fatigue (after just having won the Vuelta and having to travel to Australia to ride the TT only a week later).

 

[peterfin]

Cornering is an issue for Remco but during the TdF he was just too defensive. Excessive risk control was apparantly part of his plan to make sure he could finish and have a shot at the podium. I hope we see him going much more all out next time when it is smart to do so. This doesn't mean following Pogacar in his extreme risk taking descents. Pogacar is sometimes too much on the edge. It works until it doesn't.

 

[Salvarani]

In my opinion, if we're purely speaking about what you can control, it will be easier for Remco to win the road race than he will to win the time trial, especially after yesterdays news of the no-show of Pogacar. The latter comes down, mostly, to form of the day between Remco, Ganna and Tarling. The margins between them on such a course are rather small. If Ganna and/or Tarling have a good day and Remco has a normal day he ain't winning.

The road race, on the other hand, will be chaos galore. You can win even on your worst day. It might be comparable to Glasgow in vertical meters, but hardly in the amount of corners. Most of the riders said Glasgow was the hardest race they had ever done due to the amount of turns, and the amount of times they had to break and accelerate. Essentially it was a CX race on tarmac, which is where Van der Poel shines and nobody on the planet comes remotely close.

Paris will see a lot more straight roads, it's more than 200k before we hit the circuit and with the amount of riders on every team, is impossible to control. This is where Remco shines. One moment of hesitation, and he is gone, with Wout sitting in the wheels. This almost somewhat succeeded in Glasgow, which was probably the worst course they could ever draw up for Remco, because he is terrible at cornering and not as explosive coming out of them compared to Van der Poel, Pedersen, Pogacar and Wout. It would just so happen that Van der Poel lost his biggest ally in Pogacar, and Pedersen might not be 100% after crash.

Good post and analysis.

Question is what is the best tactic is here?

Probably go offense. An early move could make it. Because who will/can chase?

Wouldnt be shocked to see a surprise winner.

 

[velaso montador]

Amazing Tour congrats again I really do believe he unlocked the keys and this is just the beginning of things to come in that department.

Furthermore the WC gonne me really good I expect him and his new blood brother to fight for a very good WC this year. Important to end it will to build layers and come back even stronger next year..
Evenpoel or Teddy for WC I would be fine with either winning it.

 

[Karl Merckx]

He lost the 22WCC ITT due to bad cornering. They didn't fix it before, nor after.

Wrong he lost it mostly because of jetlag.

His cornering in the BC ITT 22 and Vuelta ITT 22 was perfection.

JV's cornering in Combloux last year was also perfect yet he lost 40s in the descent sunday.

Maybe you should stop thinking you're much smarter than REv's coaches while all you make are simplistic arguments.