Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[red_flanders]

Remco starts at 16.30 tomorrow. Unfortunately i'll probably won't get to to see it live.

Looks like that's 7:30 Pacific, and it's available on Sporza.

 

[jmdirt]

Every gram counts:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT6Sa3qMijw


I remember an ex pro turned performance guru talking about the importance of light pedals and shoes since they are constantly in motion.

 

[red_flanders]

Have we calculated the weight of expectations he faces from the Belgian press?

 

[Salvarani]

Have we calculated the weight of expectations he faces from the Belgian press?

Nothing compared to what he has to carry himself or so I have heard.

 

[Berniece]

Have we calculated the weight of expectations he faces from the Belgian press?

Luckily Pogacar destroys everyone since 2024, so people just expect a podium from him. Not sure if that changes after stage 5

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

he was a bit off, but still nearly had pink at the end of the first week (would have had he knew how to steer his damn bike)

His fading came as a result of the reasons previously discussed, wasting energy. Don't think he would have won that Vuelta, but likely podiums if he just had even bad bike handling skills (which, thankfully, the Galiber and Puy Mary last year notwithstanding he improved big time)

Man. He had to get back OFF the bike in January for weeks because he had actually worsened his injury and was only able to start training normally in March. Please be real. And to be clear. We were talking about the Giro.

 

[houtdffan]

Man. He had to get back OFF the bike in January for weeks because he had actually worsened his injury and was only able to start training normally in March. Please be real. And to be clear. We were talking about the Giro.

yeah, we are. His steering and steering alone was why he was in 9th before he got dropped on ANOTHER DOWNHILL on stage 16, when QS told him to pull the parachute. No way he loses 2 mins on the gravel stage and 90 seconds on Zoncolon if he isn't wasting energy catching back up

 

[houtdffan]

Luckily Pogacar destroys everyone since 2024, so people just expect a podium from him. Not sure if that changes after stage 5

Remco needs to also win stage 2 and 4 or, in addition to 5 before he can be considered a real TDF contender. Otherwise, it is likely podium.

He MUST take time out of Pog before the high mountains

 

[dobrien]

Remco needs to also win stage 2 and 4 or, in addition to 5 before he can be considered a real TDF contender. Otherwise, it is likely podium.

He MUST take time out of Pog before the high mountains

Going to be very tough to do when his competitors teams are stronger than his, and will also be fresh.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

yeah, we are. His steering and steering alone was why he was in 9th before he got dropped on ANOTHER DOWNHILL on stage 16, when QS told him to pull the parachute. No way he loses 2 mins on the gravel stage and 90 seconds on Zoncolon if he isn't wasting energy catching back up

This is true, and i agree with you that he had been wasting energy especially during the gravel stage. But stuff like that happens in a GT, he could also have gotten a flat tyre (remember Pogacar got a flat and had to chase in an echelon stage, during the TDF '20). The way he was regressing after the Zoncolan stage can not be explained by him having to have spent a bit more energy multiple days before that.
Him not being at the level he was supposed to be, was clear from the opening TT. He also had to chase and lost time in the first mountain finish where Almeida lost minutes. He did not have the proper preparation, and that becomes more apparent the longer the race lasts.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Every gram counts:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT6Sa3qMijw


I remember an ex pro turned performance guru talking about the importance of light pedals and shoes since they are constantly in motion.

From their webpage i understand that this is for 1 shoe (1/2 pair). So supposedly 65gr times two, lighter than previously? So 130 grams. Though according to their website the regular torch only weighs 200gr, but let's assume they meant including the new plates etc. I guess that could gain him something like 20-30 seconds overall after 3 weeks? Maybe even a bit more assuming we take fatigue (racing 3000 km slightly lighter) into account. Could actually be worth it, assuming it isn't merely a PR pitch.

 

[Unchained]

From their webpage i understand that this is for 1 shoe (1/2 pair). So supposedly 65gr times two, lighter than previously? So 130 grams. Though according to their website the regular torch only weighs 200gr, but let's assume they meant including the new plates etc. I guess that could gain him something like 20-30 seconds overall after 3 weeks? Maybe even a bit more assuming we take fatigue (racing 3000 km slightly lighter) into account. Could actually be worth it, assuming it isn't merely a PR pitch.

I still remember that feeling like I had arrived, I was special because I got Time shoes and pedals.. ( white with red Velcro ) they were super super heavy.. At the time I liked the wide shoe, big toe box and super stiff stable foot bed. Current Giro shoes I have are @225 grams and I use Ultegra pedals for too many years lotNn n hmmm n hmmmm. Non hmmm n nnnnnn

From their webpage i understand that this is for 1 shoe (1/2 pair). So supposedly 65gr times two, lighter than previously? So 130 grams. Though according to their website the regular torch only weighs 200gr, but let's assume they meant including the new plates etc. I guess that could gain him something like 20-30 seconds overall after 3 weeks? Maybe even a bit more assuming we take fatigue (racing 3000 km slightly lighter) into account. Could actually be worth it, assuming it isn't merely a PR pitch.

Looks like that's 7:30 Pacific, and it's available on Sporza.

 

[Berflamand]

Serge Pauwels (Belgian National coach) says Remco has told him that he also wants to participate at the EC TT.

Since he's also riding the Belgian Champs TT it looks like he wants to try to be the reigning TT champion at every possible level this year (Olympic, World, Euro and National).

 

[Berniece]

Context is very important and you are neglecting it. Remco did only better in PdB where his main "rival" was almost 3 minutes faster and his teammate was one minute slower while Vingegaard was 1'40" ahead.
Other than PdB, Vingegaard had better numbers in Marie Blanque, Cote de Domancy, he would have better numbers in Joux Plane (they are breaking Pantani's record) if he didn't have caught Pogacar.
But you still didn't say where I was wrong.

What do you mean I didn’t say where you were wrong? At which post before did you make a statement that was wrong? Just because he lost time to Pogacar doesn’t mean his own performance wasn’t impressive coming from a crash in April.

 

[KoopaCycling]

My two cents one some stuff that is talked about:

- Giro comeback : way too soon, and he was not as complete a rider he is now. Sure he'll always be a bit more cautious on the downhill, and he won't ever have Pogacar bike handling, but he's improved considerably since his early days. He has become solid enough. Ofcourse when you're up against pogacar solid enough might not cut it

- Weight: it's normal for a sportman to look for his optimal weight. And preferably find it as fast as possible. The reason people are debating it so much, is in part because Remco and his team themselves seem unsure, and haven't fully found what works best. It ain't like Ullrich, where he was just overweight after the winter. With remco it's more like in what weight does he perform best.

- TDF: i can see why people want to see a marauder style remco, ride the tdf the way he would certain one day races. And there is a certain appeal to it. But i don't think this is the year for it. This year i'd rather see him be quite as a mouse till the TT, then go back to being quite as a mouse till the first real mountain stage. I know there is a short wall climb somewhere before that, but he should be able to minimise damage there.

- Stage hunting: Personally, if a rider is of a certain caliber, i don't care about stage hunting. For most riders a stage win is a big deal, but if you're a page 1 rider, than stage wins just don't matter imo. For a rider like Evenepoel i care about GC, and one day race wins. For instance , if all goes well, remco will probably win (in my subjective opinion) his second important race of the season today. After Brabantse Pijl, national TT. Now i know he won TT's in Romandie and the Dauphiné, and that the opponents were arguable greater. But most of the time I just don't care about stage wins in a stage race when you're a guy like evenepoel. It's a nice little bonus but it don't matter that much. By the end of this season i'll remember his Brabantse Pijl win and hopefully his National TT win, i'll probably 'forget' about his TT wins in the stage races. So when people say Remco should stage hunt in the TdF, for me that is like the option you go to when all else has failed. When you've been found wanting for top 5 GC. Some stage wins do matter. But they are rare. Like first ever GT stage win, or WVA sienna win in the Giro this year. They matter cause of context. But a stage win by itself for a rider like Evenepoel is just a little bonus. they don't change the needle for me.

 

[AmRacer]

My two cents one some stuff that is talked about:

- Giro comeback : way too soon, and he was not as complete a rider he is now. Sure he'll always be a bit more cautious on the downhill, and he won't ever have Pogacar bike handling, but he's improved considerably since his early days. He has become solid enough. Ofcourse when you're up against pogacar solid enough might not cut it

- Weight: it's normal for a sportman to look for his optimal weight. And preferably find it as fast as possible. The reason people are debating it so much, is in part because Remco and his team themselves seem unsure, and haven't fully found what works best. It ain't like Ullrich, where he was just overweight after the winter. With remco it's more like in what weight does he perform best.

- TDF: i can see why people want to see a marauder style remco, ride the tdf the way he would certain one day races. And there is a certain appeal to it. But i don't think this is the year for it. This year i'd rather see him be quite as a mouse till the TT, then go back to being quite as a mouse till the first real mountain stage. I know there is a short wall climb somewhere before that, but he should be able to minimise damage there.

- Stage hunting: Personally, if a rider is of a certain caliber, i don't care about stage hunting. For most riders a stage win is a big deal, but if you're a page 1 rider, than stage wins just don't matter imo. For a rider like Evenepoel i care about GC, and one day race wins. For instance , if all goes well, remco will probably win (in my subjective opinion) his second important race of the season today. After Brabantse Pijl, national TT. Now i know he won TT's in Romandie and the Dauphiné, and that the opponents were arguable greater. But most of the time I just don't care about stage wins in a stage race when you're a guy like evenepoel. It's a nice little bonus but it don't matter that much. By the end of this season i'll remember his Brabantse Pijl win and hopefully his National TT win, i'll probably 'forget' about his TT wins in the stage races. So when people say Remco should stage hunt in the TdF, for me that is like the option you go to when all else has failed. When you've been found wanting for top 5 GC. Some stage wins do matter. But they are rare. Like first ever GT stage win, or WVA sienna win in the Giro this year. They matter cause of context. But a stage win by itself for a rider like Evenepoel is just a little bonus. they don't change the needle for me.

Pogi seems to care about stage wins, but as you are saying. Remco is no Tadej.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I'm not stating Pogacar opinion but my own. As a body of work, stage wins may end up looking nice. But personally i don't care all that much. people made a big deal out of Cavendish stage wins in the TdF. I understand why people cared (body of work, longevity, professionalism, all that jazz), it just did not raise any emotions for me personally. If anything i was glad it was done, so people stopped harping about it. I know that may sound like me hating. I don't feel that way, i have nothing against Cavendish, and props to him for getting the milestone he set for himself. I personally didn't care at all. Stage wins in stage racing are simply mostly bonus stuff for me. Like being lantern rouge, or being the most combative rider. I can't get excited for that stuff.

Unless you're a Ludo Dierkxsens or that guy who won a stage last year so as to honour his deceased bother or something like that. (after trying to obtain that in his honour for a near decade). If it something special/unique. Now i can see why for most Cavendish record stage wins is like that. But for me it was like Cipollini. If he won 20 or 30 it did not matter to me. All in all i don't care about stage wins in stage racing all that much for certain riders. I don't care how many Stage wins merckx has, how many pogacar will end up having, How many Tom Boonen got, ... It's something (a stage win) you'd expext on their resume. A box to be ticked off and not much more. Again that's my personal opinion.

Take Pogacar tour last year. Ill remember his wobble and the sheer dominance that followed. How he put his stamp on that tour and made it his. How he reduced the field to also rans. I already forgotten half of his stage wins. They just underline his dominance. But to me the stage wins dont matter much. The dominance at display mattered.

 

[Berniece]

Serge Pauwels (Belgian National coach) says Remco has told him that he also wants to participate at the EC TT.

Since he's also riding the Belgian Champs TT it looks like he wants to try to be the reigning TT champion at every possible level this year (Olympic, World, Euro and National).

Shouldn't be much of a problem. EC ITT is right up his ally, lightly hilly terrain, 24km's. Only WC ITT could be difficult this year, but even there I expect him to win.

 

[Berflamand]

Shouldn't be much of a problem. EC ITT is right up his ally, lightly hilly terrain, 24km's. Only WC ITT could be difficult this year, but even there I expect him to win.

Yeah WC ITT will be the tricky one, especially against a (probably) motivated Pogi on this kind of parcours. But even if it doesn't work out this year, I guess he has two more years to try it as current Olympic Champion.

Also, I think if he would manage to win the Belgian RR on sunday, he might even start thinking about completing the double set and try to become champion at every road race level as well. Obviously a lot of stars will have to align but one can dream, right?

For now, let's start with today and sunday before I get too far ahead of myself.

 

[Berniece]

Yeah WC ITT will be the tricky one, especially against a (probably) motivated Pogi on this kind of parcours. But even if it doesn't work out this year, I guess he has two more years to try it as current Olympic Champion.

Also, I think if he would manage to win the Belgian RR on sunday, he might even start thinking about completing the double set and try to become champion at every road race level as well. Obviously a lot of stars will have to align but one can dream, right?

For now, let's start with today and sunday before I get too far ahead of myself.

Pogacar will be motivated, but let's not pretend he wasn't motivated in the Dauphine. It's just different racing an ITT against a fresh Evenepoel and one after 3 weeks of racing.

 

[AmRacer]

I'm not stating Pogacar opinion but my own. As a body of work, stage wins may end up looking nice. But personally i don't care all that much. people made a big deal out of Cavendish stage wins in the TdF. I understand why people cared (body of work, longevity, professionalism, all that jazz), it just did not raise any emotions for me personally. If anything i was glad it was done, so people stopped harping about it. I know that may sound like me hating. I don't feel that way, i have nothing against Cavendish, and props to him for getting the milestone he set for himself. I personally didn't care at all. Stage wins in stage racing are simply mostly bonus stuff for me. Like being lantern rouge, or being the most combative rider. I can't get excited for that stuff.

Unless you're a Ludo Dierkxsens or that guy who won a stage last year so as to honour his deceased bother or something like that. (after trying to obtain that in his honour for a near decade). If it something special/unique. Now i can see why for most Cavendish record stage wins is like that. But for me it was like Cipollini. If he won 20 or 30 it did not matter to me. All in all i don't care about stage wins in stage racing all that much for certain riders. I don't care how many Stage wins merckx has, how many pogacar will end up having, How many Tom Boonen got, ... It's something (a stage win) you'd expext on their resume. A box to be ticked off and not much more. Again that's my personal opinion.

Take Pogacar tour last year. Ill remember his wobble and the sheer dominance that followed. How he put his stamp on that tour and made it his. How he reduced the field to also rans. I already forgotten half of his stage wins. They just underline his dominance. But to me the stage wins dont matter much. The dominance at display mattered.

Dominance from his stage wins.

 

[Berflamand]

Pogacar will be motivated, but let's not pretend he wasn't motivated in the Dauphine. It's just different racing an ITT against a fresh Evenepoel and one after 3 weeks of racing.

True but the TT in the Dauphiné still had a lot more flat parts. IIRC the WC TT parcours this year basically doesn't have any flat parts, only up and down.

I'm not saying he can't win but depending on the form of the day (for example will Pogacar also race the Vuelta and will that hurt his WC chances?) I'd put them as equal favorites for the TT title this year.

 

[Berniece]

True but the TT in the Dauphiné still had a lot more flat parts. IIRC the WC TT parcours this year basically doesn't have any flat parts, only up and down.

I'm not saying he can't win but depending on the form of the day (for example will Pogacar also race the Vuelta and will that hurt his WC chances?) I'd put them as equal favorites for the TT title this year.

Yeah that’s true, and Pogacar will be very motivated since he would like to be the first one ever to win the WC double. With these profiles this is the biggest chance for him.

But compared to the climbing at TDF last year, it’s less altitude meters at the WC over a longer distance. When you look at the profile, it looks as if there's a lot of climbing, but it's quite alright. First 8.3km's are flat, the descend of Cote de Nyanza isn't technical, the climb back to Cote de Nyanza only has 2 steep sections, but in between it's 1-2%, so Evenepoel takes time there again. The descend has some flat sections again. So purely based on the first 33km's, I would think Evenepoel wins, and takes enough time to compensate the last two climbs.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogacar will be motivated, but let's not pretend he wasn't motivated in the Dauphine. It's just different racing an ITT against a fresh Evenepoel and one after 3 weeks of racing.

Pogacar will have to be close to his peak form to have a realistic chance there. He's able to produce great TTs but OTOH sometimes he's pretty average in TTs (when not in form). Evenepoel has a larger margin: even when he underperforms in the mountains he's still a world beater in TTs. Overall Evenepoel is #1 favourite but hopefully there'll be some interesting competition on this difficult route, which gives Pogi some chances.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Pogi seems to care about stage wins, but as you are saying. Remco is no Tadej.

Winning stages by being the best is completely different to lose time in GC to go stage hunting. The first is great for top riders, the second is not great for top riders.