Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Netserk]

Citing the 2021 Tignes climbing time as an important benchmark is an actual jumping-the-shark moment.

What can I say, it's a whole lot easier to go slower than usual compared to going faster than usual, so the strongest performances are more informative than the weakest.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

What can I say, it's a whole lot easier to go slower than usual compared to going faster than usual, so the strongest performances are more informative than the weakest.

Tignes was at the end of a two-day climbing block in very cold and rainy weather. Guys were tired and demotivated after Pog demolished them the day before. Pog himself said he just pushed on his threshold or slightly above and was surprised he distanced the rest easily on Tignes. Mas said he was afraid to react or attack fearing another demolition.

 

[Peyroteo94]

A bunch of 19 year olds completely trashed one of Pogacar's climbing records from 2021 two days ago by minutes. How people still think Pog prior to 2024 is any kind of benchmark is beyond me.

So who was the benchmark in the mountains? Vingegaard and Pogacar were pretty equal.
Beyond me is thinking Remco was close to Pogacar in 2022 or 2023 when we talk about climbing. That's insane.

 

[AmRacer]

So who was the benchmark in the mountains? Vingegaard and Pogacar were pretty equal.
Beyond me is thinking Remco was close to Pogacar in 2022 or 2023 when we talk about climbing. That's insane.

Climbing performance
Pog (2021 ->) >>>> Remco (2022 ; 2024)

 

[Berniece]

So who was the benchmark in the mountains? Vingegaard and Pogacar were pretty equal.
Beyond me is thinking Remco was close to Pogacar in 2022 or 2023 when we talk about climbing. That's insane.

Well the numbers say something different. You can always just have your opinion on what might have happened, but again, the numbers say he was pretty equal.

 

[Netserk]

Well the numbers say something different. You can always just have your opinion on what might have happened, but again, the numbers say he was pretty equal.

Numbers are silent. The voice one hears is the active interpretation of numbers.

 

[peterfin]

Numbers are silent. The voice one hears is the active interpretation of numbers.

A voice can easily run astray. Numbers give a factual story, especially in aggregate so they can't be just due to special situations.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Numbers aren't reliable when we compare different races (different race speed, profile, opponents, etc).
The time gaps were way larger in the Tour (between Pogacar and Thomas/the rest not named Vingegaard) than in the Vuelta. This simple metric give us important informations about how superior Pogacar/Vingegaard are compared to every other GT rider, including Remco. Roglic was doing numbers incredibly high in the Vuelta 2024 and I think no one will tell he was close to Pogacar or Vingegaard in 2024.
But I'm getting tired of talking the same thing, it's pretty obvious this is a dead cause and some here live in a fantasy world.

 

[Red Rick]

What can I say, it's a whole lot easier to go slower than usual compared to going faster than usual, so the strongest performances are more informative than the weakest.

That just creates a selection bias towards climbs where everyone does their PB or seasonal best performance, and the sample size of such climbs isn't nearly big enough.

Ventoux for example was Roglic' career best 55 minute climb. It's also the first time he's done a fresh 55 minute climb full gas in his career basically. He started racing Grand Tour GCs 7 years ago.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Climbing performance
Pog (2021 ->) >>>> Remco (2022 ; 2024)

Funny ***.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Much to some people’s surprise It’s looking like Pidcock emerges as a new grand tour contender to join Remco, Lipo and the others behind the big two.
Could be some big battles there

 

[Berniece]

Much to some people’s surprise It’s looking like Pidcock emerges as a new grand tour contender to join Remco, Lipo and the others behind the big two.
Could be some big battles there

Yeah we never had riders do well in the first week of a GT to eventually completely collapse.

 

[Netserk]

That just creates a selection bias towards climbs where everyone does their PB or seasonal best performance, and the sample size of such climbs isn't nearly big enough.

Ventoux for example was Roglic' career best 55 minute climb. It's also the first time he's done a fresh 55 minute climb full gas in his career basically. He started racing Grand Tour GCs 7 years ago.

By strongest performance I do not mean just a high power number.

Rather that Limone, Pal and Cerler have not been very informative. Or Bejes two years ago for the chasers.

To get a sense of a rider's limits, the performances have to test the limits of the rider.

Granon was informative of Vingegaard, even if the numbers from that climb alone were suppressed by Galibier.

 

[peterfin]

Numbers aren't reliable when we compare different races (different race speed, profile, opponents, etc).
The time gaps were way larger in the Tour (between Pogacar and Thomas/the rest not named Vingegaard) than in the Vuelta. This simple metric give us important informations about how superior Pogacar/Vingegaard are compared to every other GT rider, including Remco. Roglic was doing numbers incredibly high in the Vuelta 2024 and I think no one will tell he was close to Pogacar or Vingegaard in 2024.
But I'm getting tired of talking the same thing, it's pretty obvious this is a dead cause and some here live in a fantasy world.

Roglic had a great 2024 Vuelta but as you said, his number weren't close to Pogacar or Vingegaard. He was closer to Remco's performance and that is also consistent with what we have seen in the past. So the numbers do tell a factual story.

Time gaps on the other hand tell us nothing without context. They are just an integration of the W/kg performance. The longer the effort, the bigger the time gap.

Regarding your last sentence: that's an example of a personal opinion without using facts to back it up.

 

[AmRacer]

Roglic had a great 2024 Vuelta but as you said, his number weren't close to Pogacar or Vingegaard. He was closer to Remco's performance and that is also consistent with what we have seen in the past. So the numbers do tell a factual story.

Time gaps on the other hand tell us nothing without context. They are just an integration of the W/kg performance. The longer the effort, the bigger the time gap.

Regarding your last sentence: that's an example of a personal opinion without using facts to back it up.

@Peyroteo94 telling the truth.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Roglic had a great 2024 Vuelta but as you said, his number weren't close to Pogacar or Vingegaard. He was closer to Remco's performance and that is also consistent with what we have seen in the past. So the numbers do tell a factual story.

Time gaps on the other hand tell us nothing without context. They are just an integration of the W/kg performance. The longer the effort, the bigger the time gap.

Regarding your last sentence: that's an example of a personal opinion without using facts to back it up.

But his numbers on Moncalvillo were better than any performance Remco did in the Tour. By your own logic, can I say Roglic was better than Remco on climbs?
Roglic did close to 7 w/kg in a 24 minutes effort.

Edit: again, anyone who said Remco was close to Pogacar/Vingegaard in the mountains (in 2022) should be checked for a concussion.

 

[peterfin]

But his numbers on Moncalvillo were better than any performance Remco did in the Tour. By your own logic, can I say Roglic was better than Remco on climbs?
Roglic did close to 7 w/kg in a 24 minutes effort.

6.8 w/kg in 22 minutes, which is about the same effort as they did together to Lo Port (Catalunya 2023). Remco did 3 times a 6.4 w/kg efforts in 40 minutes during the TdF 2024, so I give Remco the edge here but as Roglic didn't have the same competition during the Vuelta and wasn't equally challenged it's fair to say they were about equal. I consider their climbing performance in the period 2022 to 2024 similar and the battles we have seen between the two confirm this.

 

[Oldman]

A bunch of 19 year olds completely trashed one of Pogacar's climbing records from 2021 two days ago by minutes. How people still think Pog prior to 2024 is any kind of benchmark is beyond me.

So a bunch of 19 year olds trained to do a ttt version of a climb Pogacar raced after how many days of a GT and you think those are comparable efforts in any way?
And then you question any "benchmark" status...there is zero Logic to that. Maybe he just lost a couple of kilos and that made the difference...

 

[Prim]

Finally some action tomorrow. What do you guys expect? Personally I think Remco will use the first three stages to settle in to racing again and then be really active in the weekend stages. Good thing Onley is there to get some kind of reference point to where he might be form-wise.

 

[Berniece]

Finally some action tomorrow. What do you guys expect? Personally I think Remco will use the first three stages to settle in to racing again and then be really active in the weekend stages. Good thing Onley is there to get some kind of reference point to where he might be form-wise.

Not much to do until stage 4 anyway

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

So a bunch of 19 year olds trained to do a ttt version of a climb Pogacar raced after how many days of a GT and you think those are comparable efforts in any way?
And then you question any "benchmark" status...there is zero Logic to that. Maybe he just lost a couple of kilos and that made the difference...

What are you even talking about. The segment was during a MTF stage after a week of racing in Avenir. They didn't break his time by seconds but by over a minute on a 20 minute segment. Nowhere did i state Pogacar wouldn't have done better in similar conditions as these guys or that Avenir is as challenging as TDF, but i damn well know they wouldn't beat any of his climbing times of 2024 or 2025 by that much under any circumstances.

 

[Berniece]

Why are people constantly talking about Evenepoel in relation to Pogacar in the first place? Thats what I wonder. We watch the races right, its not a rational focus, the onus should be on other riders first, not Pogacar.

The post you quoted wasn't even about Evenepoel. Does he live rent free in your head?

 

[Berflamand]

Does anyone know if there's going to be any press conference/interview before the race (Tour of Britain)?

He's back to racing tomorrow but it has been very quiet these past few weeks, there's not even a single Strava post since August 4.

I guess no news is good news but I'd like to hear how his recovery has been going and where he (thinks he) stands at the moment in preparation of the WC/EC/Lombardia.

 

[Berniece]

Read the context post before then. No, not at all I simply wonder why people constantly talking about Evenepoel in relation to Pogacar everytime im here when in fact he isnt close at all and we all know that?

There are several other riders Remco is actually competing against right now, and he needs to prove himself against first, not Pogacar. The focus on Pogacar in relation to Remco feels like an odd obsession, disconnected from reality. So yes, its a completely sensible question I believe.

Yeah, not close at all.

Amstel Gold Race 2025 One day race results

Amstel Gold Race 2025 was won by Mattias Skjelmose before Tadej PogaÄar and Remco Evenepoel.

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[Berniece]

Does anyone know if there's going to be any press conference/interview before the race (Tour of Britain)?

He's back to racing tomorrow but it has been very quiet these past few weeks, there's not even a single Strava post since August 4.

I guess no news is good news but I'd like to hear how his recovery has been going and where he (thinks he) stands at the moment in preparation of the WC/EC/Lombardia.

Don't think he'll do an actual press conference, otherwise it would've happened already. He probably also just doesn't want to discuss his move to RBH. So I guess he'll do a pre-race interview tomorrow, and hopefully he says he only wants to talk about the race.