Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Red Rick]

I'd argue his climbing in the 2022 Vuelta best fits Pidcock's level relative to the opposition, including a day or two of struggling to hang on to the best. 3rd seems about right in relative terms, with only 12km of ITT.

 

[Cookster15]

I'd argue his climbing in the 2022 Vuelta best fits Pidcock's level relative to the opposition, including a day or two of struggling to hang on to the best. 3rd seems about right in relative terms, with only 12km of ITT.

Probably. But worth noting who Remco beat that year who rode this Vuelta:

Ayuso + 4' 57"
Almeida + 7' 24"
Hindley + 12' 01"

 

[Red Rick]

Probably. But worth noting who Remco beat that year who rode this Vuelta:

Ayuso + 4' 57"
Almeida + 7' 24"
Hindley + 12' 01"

Not really. None of them were at a comparable level this race.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Did Remco race the vuelta this year unbeknowst to me?

Or are we implying Remco is not a GT rider again?
Did this Vuelta not establish that Almeida, Ayuso and Pidcock were not GT riders? Not by my logic ofcourse. But according to the logic of others on this board.

 

[Peyroteo94]

No need to compare this Vuelta with the Vuelta Remco won. Numbers are getting better and better year after year but what matters is Remco won the Vuelta fair and square, and if someone says Roglic crashed which helped Remco, I'm going to say Remco was leading and beating Roglic before his crash.

 

[chickenlips]

I think there would have been more than a few handlebars smashed if Remco was in this race and seeing the last ITT got reduced in length. Could have made the difference between getting a podium or not.

 

[houtdffan]

Third.

He never dropped Vingegaard, so he was suddenly going to do it?

He did drop Vingo in the 2024 TDF on the first alpine stage

 

[Rou]

Where would the Vuelta winning Remco have finished in this Vuelta ?

Pretty sure behind Hindley.
Remco has never tackled climbs like Angliru and Bola del Mundo and he would most likely suffer there.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Where would the Vuelta winning Remco have finished in this Vuelta ?

10 minutes ahead of Pidcock. So he would have won the Vuelta by roughly 7 minutes.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

No need to compare this Vuelta with the Vuelta Remco won. Numbers are getting better and better year after year but what matters is Remco won the Vuelta fair and square, and if someone says Roglic crashed which helped Remco, I'm going to say Remco was leading and beating Roglic before his crash.

…and Roglic crashed out of the Tour and broke his back whereas Remco came in healthy with targeted prep.

 

[Red Rick]

Pretty sure behind Hindley.
Remco has never tackled climbs like Angliru and Bola del Mundo and he would most likely suffer there.

Bola del Mundo had tiny gaps again this year. Angliru was a very fast stage going like 50kph for hours on the flat, which really suits Evenepoel. I doubt he ships more than 1'30 there.

Then, Hindley lost 1'46 on Valdezcarray, and Evenepoel in good form is never gonna miss out on the Almeida/Pidcock group in that stage.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I'm surprised people are actually rating this vuelta. from the outside looking in, it looks a low level GT.
I barely followed it, so can be entirely wrong here. I just look at the standings and think, that can't have been a hard GT.

I mean it's still a GT and all that. But to say Remco would barely crack top 5 in this vuelta on his best form?
That just sound like a joke if i check out the standings.

I see a relative weak Vingegaard and an underperforming Almeida whose positioning is still worse than Remco 's positioning on a bad day. The rest are just nice stories if i'm being harsh.

i don't like talking bad about riders, but i'm starting to feel like i should go on a villain arc, after reading some comments here. Give people a taste of their own medicine.

 

[Red Rick]

I'm surprised people are actually rating this vuelta. from the outside looking in, it looks a low level GT.
I barely followed it, so can be entirely wrong here. I just look at the standings and think, that can't have been a hard GT.

I mean it's still a GT and all that. But to say Remco would barely crack top 5 in this vuelta on his best form?
That just sound like a joke if i check out the standings.

I see a relative weak Vingegaard and an underperforming Almeida whose positioning is still worse than Remco 's positioning on a bad day. The rest are just nice stories if i'm being harsh.

The Vuelta is usually actually very hard in terms of overall fatigue, despite the small gaps due to all the altitude gain that serves no action.

I believe that the level of the best 2ndary contenders, which is usually the level needed to get 3rd-5th depending on competition, is a lot more stable than the level required to win. I also don't think it makes that much sense to flame the level of riders who clearly got sick.

Also, if a GT that overall has produced very small gaps, it makes no sense to compare it to a past GT that produced massive gaps, such as the 2024 Tour de France.

If everything goes perfect, he could win, but that's heavily because the other guys didn't have perfect GTs, and it's a silly hypothetical because Evenepoel has had exactly one GT where nothing went wrong, and in that GT he got dropped by Vingegaard on every big mountain. Given that he also has a tendency to lose quite a bit of time on big climbs if he's not his best, winning seems very unlikely to me, but I would put him in 2nd/3rd because the biggest gaps were on an Unipuerto cat 2 that suits him absurdly well.

Saying "lol he'd win cause Pidcock got 3rd" is just bs to me.

 

[Charlyghoul]

I'm surprised people are actually rating this vuelta. from the outside looking in, it looks a low level GT.
I barely followed it, so can be entirely wrong here. I just look at the standings and think, that can't have been a hard GT.

I mean it's still a GT and all that. But to say Remco would barely crack top 5 in this vuelta on his best form?
That just sound like a joke if i check out the standings.

I see a relative weak Vingegaard and an underperforming Almeida whose positioning is still worse than Remco 's positioning on a bad day. The rest are just nice stories if i'm being harsh.

i don't like talking bad about riders, but i'm starting to feel like i should go on a villain arc, after reading some comments here. Give people a taste of their own medicine.

I wouldn’t say it was was weaker than the Vuelta that Remco won, or the one Kuss won, or the giro that Pogacar won.
A fairly average quality top ten really

 

[Red Rick]

I wouldn’t say it was was weaker than the Vuelta that Remco won, or the one Kuss won, or the giro that Pogacar won.
A fairly average quality top ten really

It's one of the stronger fields in recent years. I think Hindley has been really good right now, and he's only getting 4th. This is easily stronger than most Vuelta's since 2017 and any Giro since 2019.

 

[Peyroteo94]

…and Roglic crashed out of the Tour and broke his back whereas Remco came in healthy with targeted prep.

Without a doubt. IMO, Roglic was a better GT rider (his ceilling was higher but crashes prevented him from ahowing that level) than Remco in 2022, specially in the Vuelta. But Remco won the Vuelta fair and square, it isn't his fault Roglic crashed out in the TdF (and later in the Vuelta).

 

[KoopaCycling]

Fine lets go the villain route.
People be overrating others and downgrading remco so much it's a bit of a joke.

Almeida may have stepped up this year, or maybe he never faced stiff competition in the races he won.
He did not even take more than 1.30 on very weak Remco in Romandie.
Almeida finished on 7 minutes in the vuelta remco won. he was 10 minutes down on remco when he barely needed to work for Pogacar in the TDF last year. He finished 9th in the vuelta 23 only about 7 minutes ahead of a Remco that purposely took time twice after his crack. And now Almeida will easily beat remco cause he 'stepped' up. Recency bias much.

All i heard from commentators was that Vingegaard looked weak. I'm guessing he was compared to his usual self.
Yet he still won, without being truly challenged. I do'nt recall reading anyone dropping Vingegaard. So nothing special must have happened during this vuelta, if no one managed to take a bit of time on a weakened Jonas.

Pidcock is suddenly a world beater? I posted i would not be too negative about him, but really? he'll be lucky to ever finish top 5 again.

Hindley is a return to form, but that does not make him a world beater. I can name dozen people i rather have headlining my team.

There no way this was a hard GT, in comparison to say the Tour of 2 years ago.

 

[Red Rick]

People be overrating others and downgrading remco so much it's a bit of a joke.

How, Evenepoel is the only rider who can deliver nothing for a full year with 0 effect to his power ranking because people bought into him that much.

And yes, Vingegaard was weaker this Vuelta, but he didn't get fully dropped once, and Evenepoel has never even once dropped Vingegaard even on Vingegaards worst days in the high mountains. So even when you're gonna be optimistic but realistic, it's gonna be rather close, and at that moment you have to admit that the Vuelta route suits Evenepoel horrendously, and following Vingegaard on the day that he crushes the field is a big stretch.

 

[KoopaCycling]

The only thing that's changed this year is the arrival of new challengers.
Del Toro, Lipowitz, Onley. With Del Toro especially looking a beast.

Beyond that, i'll need to see a whole lot more before i could accept such quotes as seen in this thread regarding his ranking in this year vuelta.

Remco at his best has always smoked Almeida. Smoked Pidcock. Vingegaard is better than Remco. But Vingegaard looked weak from what i gather. So if Almeida is the benchmark, not a Vingegaard that's hard to rate. Then i have seen nothing to suggest Remco would not beat Almeida here. The great Almeida won Romandie by 1.30 on remco, a remco that felt so weak he decided to pull Lecerf.

I'll only give that Remco needs to prove he ain't the next Beloki, Bernal, Schleck.

 

[AmRacer]

The only thing that's changed this year is the arrival of new challengers.
Del Toro, Lipowitz, Onley. With Del Toro especially looking a beast.

Beyond that, i'll need to see a whole lot more before i could accept such quotes as seen in this thread regarding his ranking in this year vuelta.

Remco at his best has always smoked Almeida. Smoked Pidcock. Vingegaard is better than Remco. But Vingegaard looked weak from what i gather. So if Almeida is the benchmark, not a Vingegaard that's hard to rate. Then i have seen nothing to suggest Remco would not beat Almeida here. The great Almeida won Romandie by 1.30 on remco, a remco that felt so weak he decided to pull Lecerf.

I'll only give that Remco needs to prove he ain't the next Beloki, Bernal, Schleck.

The magic words 'Remco at his best....'

 

[AmRacer]

The only thing that's changed this year is the arrival of new challengers.
Del Toro, Lipowitz, Onley. With Del Toro especially looking a beast.

Beyond that, i'll need to see a whole lot more before i could accept such quotes as seen in this thread regarding his ranking in this year vuelta.

Remco at his best has always smoked Almeida. Smoked Pidcock. Vingegaard is better than Remco. But Vingegaard looked weak from what i gather. So if Almeida is the benchmark, not a Vingegaard that's hard to rate. Then i have seen nothing to suggest Remco would not beat Almeida here. The great Almeida won Romandie by 1.30 on remco, a remco that felt so weak he decided to pull Lecerf.

I'll only give that Remco needs to prove he ain't the next Beloki, Bernal, Schleck.

I do think Remco wants the two GT Bernal won.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Fine lets go the villain route.
People be overrating others and downgrading remco so much it's a bit of a joke.

Almeida may have stepped up this year, or maybe he never faced stiff competition in the races he won.
He did not even take more than 1.30 on very weak Remco in Romandie.
Almeida finished on 7 minutes in the vuelta remco won. he was 10 minutes down on remco when he barely needed to work for Pogacar in the TDF last year. He finished 9th in the vuelta 23 only about 7 minutes ahead of a Remco that purposely took time twice after his crack. And now Almeida will easily beat remco cause he 'stepped' up. Recency bias much.

All i heard from commentators was that Vingegaard looked weak. I'm guessing he was compared to his usual self.
Yet he still won, without being truly challenged. I do'nt recall reading anyone dropping Vingegaard. So nothing special must have happened during this vuelta, if no one managed to take a bit of time on a weakened Jonas.

Pidcock is suddenly a world beater? I posted i would not be too negative about him, but really? he'll be lucky to ever finish top 5 again.

Hindley is a return to form, but that does not make him a world beater. I can name dozen people i rather have headlining my team.

There no way this was a hard GT, in comparison to say the Tour of 2 years ago.

So Almeida beat a very weak Remco but Remco didn't beat a very weak Almeida? Amirite?
The bias maybe comes from you. Almeida showed a podium in the Tour would be very possible since he beated Only and Vauquelin very comfortably in Suisse. Lipo was doing kamikaze attacks and wasting a lot of energy so I think Almeida would get third.
Remco cannot underperform multiple times in stage races and expect people to not question his level. Why it's bias? He didn't perform in the Tour, he gave up on Tourmalet after getting destroyed the day before by Vingegaard and lost time two days before to his main opponent for the podium.
If some people criticize him, it is because they expect more from him and I can assure you, Remco fans (Don't know about you) are the main reason he gets a lot of criticism.
Takes like:
He can win the TdF (after his TT in the Dauphiné)
He can win the TdF with 2 flat TT of 50 km
He can be closer (5/6 minutes) to Pogacar in the TdF
He could win the Giro 2023 after 0 mountain stages and 2 TTs (despite being 2 kg heavier)

Maybe if you (Remco fans) start to be more humble and realistic about his level, and start to manage more your expectations about him, maybe the downfall won't be so hard.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The only thing that's changed this year is the arrival of new challengers.
Del Toro, Lipowitz, Onley. With Del Toro especially looking a beast.

Beyond that, i'll need to see a whole lot more before i could accept such quotes as seen in this thread regarding his ranking in this year vuelta.

Remco at his best has always smoked Almeida. Smoked Pidcock. Vingegaard is better than Remco. But Vingegaard looked weak from what i gather. So if Almeida is the benchmark, not a Vingegaard that's hard to rate. Then i have seen nothing to suggest Remco would not beat Almeida here. The great Almeida won Romandie by 1.30 on remco, a remco that felt so weak he decided to pull Lecerf.

I'll only give that Remco needs to prove he ain't the next Beloki, Bernal, Schleck.

Do you think 1.30 is a small margin in a one week stage race? Specially with only one mountain stage?
Vingegaard lost 59 seconds to Pogacar in the Dauphiné. Vingegaard was close to Pogacar?

 

[KoopaCycling]

Almeida showed podium this year. so what.
That just showed he rode on what i consider his level. a top 5 GT rider who somehow can't seem to bring it all together.
And fall short time and again.

Should i now think Remco would no be able to beat him cause of that. Let's be real. If i need to choose Remco at his bets versus Almeida at his best, it's an easy choice.

Obviously this year Remco would be nowhere. People remember Remco's low points and never the highlights.
Never seen Almeida do some of the things Remco did. Never seen him in the trenches. Closest he got is this year Vuelta, and his fighting spirit when it comes down to it seems limited. Consistent and bullish but nothing more. he lost time on a stage mostly not on legs but on positioning and willpower. but people don't care when that happens to someone not named remco. I have not seen Almeida do anything Remco can't do, But i have seen the reverse.

I have seen Almeida perform once before during a giro. now a relative okay performance during this vuelta.
I'm sorry but that's not enough to put him ahead of remco. especially when Pidcock is that close on third.

I'll say he does have the offchance of winning hist first GT today, if Jonas crashes. but that's unlikely. Almeida biggest strength is his consistency. Consistency is important. But more often than not, that alone won't put you over the top.

If there is anyone i would put ahead of remco in the next few years it's Del Toro. I think that kid will just get stronger and stronger.

 

[AmRacer]

Almeida showed podium this year. so what.
That just showed he rode on what i consider his level. a top 5 GT rider who somehow can't seem to bring it all together.
And fall short time and again.

Should i now think Remco would no be able to beat him cause of that. Let's be real. If i need to choose Remco at his bets versus Almeida at his best, it's an easy choice.

Obviously this year Remco would be nowhere. People remember Remco's low points and never the highlights.
Never seen Almeida do some of the things Remco did. Never seen him in the trenches. Closest he got is this year Vuelta, and his fighting spirit when it comes down to it seems limited. Consistent and bullish but nothing more. he lost time on a stage mostly not on legs but on positioning and willpower. but people don't care when that happens to someone not named remco. I have not seen Almeida do anything Remco can't do, But i have seen the reverse.

I have seen Almeida perform once before during a giro. now a relative okay performance during this vuelta.
I'm sorry but that's not enough to put him ahead of remco. especially when Pidcock is that close on third.

I'll say he does off the offchance of winning hist first GT today, if Jonas crashes. but that's unlikely. Almieda biggest strength is his consistency. Consistency is important. But more often than not, that alone won't put you over the top.

Almeida has never been better than he is this year.