The revenge of Rasmussen ...

[theyoungest]

These NRC dudes, fresh out of journalism school, with Rasmussen as their only stated source, are getting a bit too much attention IMHO. I saw them on tv last night, man did they look happy they got their faces on the news. It's time for some non-sensationalist journalists to look at the Rabobank story, because currently I believe none of it anymore.

 

[Kompakt]

These NRC dudes, fresh out of journalism school, with Rasmussen as their only stated source, are getting a bit too much attention IMHO. I saw them on tv last night, man did they look happy they got their faces on the news. It's time for some non-sensationalist journalists to look at the Rabobank story, because currently I believe none of it anymore.

Are you dutch by any chance?

I have no reason to doubt any of the information. He was only allowed to get back in the sport if he revealed all information to the anti doping authorities. IMO he's much more trustworthy than any of thoose half-assed admissions we've seen from Armstrong, Riis etc.

At the moment Rabobank are the center of the storm, but I highly doubt they were any worse than some of the other top teams.

 

[hrotha]

From what I'm seeing, there's many Dutchies going all "It wasn't such a big deal, everyone was at it, this is unfair".

 

[skimazk]

Being a dutchie i would state that although it's not surprising news, it is a big deal and important to get more and more details on how it was, and almost certainly is being done.

the unfair bit is understandable in a sence that our belgian friends are playing the dutch angle for all they can but quickly brush any tidbit of information relating to belgian nationals under the massive carpet that is belgian cycling.

We as dutch have a tradition of allways wanting to be the nicest / most decent boy in the class. Even if it makes us look like a fool when the others classmates (belgian, french, itallian, spanish) take a step back and look at us making a fool out of ourselves. But then we usually trend more to anglo saxxons than fellow europeans

with regards to everybody else is doing it.... duhhuh but thats not an excuse, merely stating the obvious.

 

[Lanark]

From what I'm seeing, there's many Dutchies going all "It wasn't such a big deal, everyone was at it, this is unfair".

Most Dutchies seem to have a 'yes, they all doped, we know already, please stop writing about it'.

A bit dissapointing. Sure, most of these revelations don't completely change our view, but it does give a better view of the doping practices at the Rabobank team, how they tried to not deliver a positive, how the team management and doctors were involved etc. It's not groundbreaking, but usefull to know nonetheless.

 

[theyoungest]

Are you dutch by any chance?

I have no reason to doubt any of the information. He was only allowed to get back in the sport if he revealed all information to the anti doping authorities. IMO he's much more trustworthy than any of thoose half-assed admissions we've seen from Armstrong, Riis etc.

At the moment Rabobank are the center of the storm, but I highly doubt they were any worse than some of the other top teams.

Of course Rasmussen isn't trustworthy. He has a court case going against Rabobank. If it turns out they knew all about his doping, and in fact organized it themselves, he'll get a few million euros.

On top of that, the Dutch press love to see Rabobank go down. They always have. Rabobank were the untouchable, slightly boring team, and of course it's great to ruin that image. I don't care if that image is ruined, but I do like to read the truth. And I say that as a subscriber to the NRC newspaper.

From what I'm seeing, there's many Dutchies going all "It wasn't such a big deal, everyone was at it, this is unfair".

That's not the opinion of the Dutch general public, at any rate.

But to give you an example of the hypocrisy involved in all of this, Marc Lotz said he rode for a foreign team where one of the stars had such a blood machine on his hotel room. He said this in NRC. Do they put this on the front page? Of course not, nobody cares, it's a foreign team. Or, if I'm even more cynical, since the foreign team can only have been Quick Step, and the owner of NRC works for that team, it was a case of self-censorship.

 

[hrotha]

Of course there's hypocrisy. That doesn't change the fact that everybody should take a long, hard look at themselves, because it's the right thing to do, regardless of what your neighbours choose to do. Otherwise, it was also unfair to investigate US Postal, or Puerto, or Festina, and nothing would ever get done.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

From what I'm seeing, there's many Dutchies going all "It wasn't such a big deal, everyone was at it, this is unfair".

A lot of Dutch have a Calimero complex, do you know the meaning of that?

Edit:
@theyoungest: interesting point of view with regards to the owner of NRC, do you have that view on David Walsh too?

 

[theyoungest]

Of course there's hypocrisy. That doesn't change the fact that everybody should take a long, hard look at themselves, because it's the right thing to do, regardless of what your neighbours choose to do. Otherwise, it was also unfair to investigate US Postal, or Puerto, or Festina, and nothing would ever get done.

That's true, but as it stands now, the cycling world can just point at the dirty rotten US Postal and Rabobank teams, and nothing else changes. Lefevere, Vino, Riis, they can just continue their business.

 

[Heckler]

That's true, but as it stands now, the cycling world can just point at the dirty rotten US Postal and Rabobank teams, and nothing else changes. Lefevere, Vino, Riis, they can just continue their business.

Isn't it fairer to say that most of the people that really follow the sport, are knowledgeable and talk frankly about PEDs, acknowledge that only Basson and a small handful Weren't doping. Everyone else was. From Festina on, it's become pretty clear.

When you start to wrap your head around that, you start to realize that everyone was complicit and anyone who says on record that they're shocked or had no idea is full of it and suspect themselves.

From that point of perspective, isn't it time to just say "yeah, Everyone doped, it's the cultural default. Now let's move on. What does the collective opinion want the sport to look like?"

If what everyone wants is an absolutely clean sport, then there needs to be an overhaul of the rules, the oversight, the prevention, the testing and the punishments.

 

[DirtyWorks]

What does the collective opinion want the sport to look like?"

Pretty much like it does already. Why? It attracts viewers. The UCI has been able to expand their event formula internationally with generally positive results and practically everyone is getting paid. That last bit is the most important.

You'll find most viewers honestly indifferent to doping. They aren't the ones being injected and they like the spectacle. As long as the federations keep the doping controversy quiet, the spectacle isn't ruined for most.

Those conspiracy theorists, the clinic 12, sure seem to think the show is ruined. What do they know anyway...

If what everyone wants is an absolutely clean sport, then there needs to be an overhaul of the rules, the oversight, the prevention, the testing and the punishments.

Your intentions are in the right place, but a complete overhaul is not necessary. All the rules are there. Many of the rules need to be enforced in a manner that presents the federation as a fair dealer that defends the premise the basis of the game is equitable. Instead, we've got the UCI artfully interpreting rules to meet some other undocumented agendas.

The change that is required is to give WADA the authority to select/determine tests and subjects and to open cases.

 

[WillemS]

So, what's Blanco doing right now?

Interesting tweet from Stef Clement on the Dutch nationals ITT.

"For those interested; todays TT 1h05.19 354,5watt with 174,9bpm and 94rpm. Compaired to last 5 TT's that is almost -8% power. Time to reload"

His assumed weight (Blanco + Wikipedia) puts him at about 66kg, which would give him an 354.5 / 66 = 5.4 w/kg average. If we believe his "almost -8% power" on the last 5 ITTs, his w/kg would be around 5.8 w/kg for the Giro time trials (5th on Stage 8 at + 0' 32" from Dowsett and 8th on stage 18 at + 1' 31" from Nibali). If we add some GT weight loss, he would be at about 6 watts/kg.

(BTW "Time to reload" sounds a bit funny.. We had thread about euphemisms, did we not?)

 

[Heckler]

The UCI has been able to expand their event formula internationally with generally positive results and practically everyone is getting paid. That last bit is the most important.

You'll find most viewers honestly indifferent to doping. They aren't the ones being injected and they like the spectacle.

I understand that everybody getting paid is a relatively new phenomenon and good. I guess I'm starting to wrap My head around the possibility of viewer indifference.

Your intentions are in the right place, but a complete overhaul is not necessary. All the rules are there. Many of the rules need to be enforced in a manner that presents the federation as a fair dealer that defends the premise the basis of the game is equitable. Instead, we've got the UCI artfully interpreting rules to meet some other undocumented agendas.

The change that is required is to give WADA the authority to select/determine tests and subjects and to open cases.

My thought here is that the whole game has become much more serious. The "cheats" are not actually cheating, because their advantage is so great, so scientifically advanced and so, not even addressed with the rules. Fuentes and Saiz have become dime bag street hustlers while the stakes have risen exponentially. So, just because of the cost of an advantage that is not covered by the rules, an equitable game is out the window regardless of impartial oversight.

Wouldn't it just be cheaper and safer for everyone to change the rule to no drugs and no science, nothing but "bread and water"? Then, give that to WADA with the money to systematically test everyone.

Otherwise, we'll see, very quickly, a system evolve where the continental teams are just the scouts for good genes and a training league; up from there it's going to be a race of genetic science.

 

[Race Radio]

Rasmussen loses his court case. Has to pay Rabo €579,000

 

[notrolfsorensen]

So Rasmussen is loosing this case...

José Been ‏@TourDeJose 15m
Verdict in Rasmussen vs Rabobank today. Telegraaf journo Ray Kerckhoffs reports Rasmussen loses. Still to be confirmed officially

can't really say that I feel sorry for the guy. Just because they knew he was cheating didn't mean that they could not fire him for it.


EDIT: Sorry didn't see RR's post. Anyway Chicken lawyer confirms

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Rasmussen loses his court case. Has to pay Rabo €579,000

This gotta be one of the first times doping didn't pay.

 

[notrolfsorensen]

This gotta be one of the first times doping didn't pay.

Well it did pay for Rabobank. I'm sure they could all kinds of exposure from that particular tour

 

[theyoungest]

Well it did pay for Rabobank. I'm sure they could all kinds of exposure from that particular tour

Yes, it brought them such great exposure that they'll still gladly pay a few million euros while someone else's name is on the jersey

Rasmussen started a kind of smear campaign, using NRC journalists as his mouthpiece, but apparently it didn't work.

 

[The Chicken]

Nooooooooooooooo

 

[hrotha]

Yes, it brought them such great exposure that they'll still gladly pay a few million euros while someone else's name is on the jersey

Rasmussen started a kind of smear campaign, using NRC journalists as his mouthpiece, but apparently it didn't work.

No amount of smearing changes the fact that Rabobank knew all along.

What was the reasoning of the verdict? Is it already known?

 

[theyoungest]

No amount of smearing changes the fact that Rabobank knew all along.

What was the reasoning of the verdict? Is it already known?

That 'fact' is what this case is all about.

 

[hrotha]

That 'fact' is what this case is all about.

Which is why I'm asking about the reasoning, because that 'fact' makes no sense whatsoever and you know it.

 

[theyoungest]

Which is why I'm asking about the reasoning, because that 'fact' makes no sense whatsoever and you know it.

I don't know anything. This story has been retold so many times that I don't believe any party in this case.

One thing's for sure: if one party is suddenly so concerned with the 'truth', when they weren't before, I tend to believe them even less.

 

[hrotha]

Surely you know enough about cycling and doping in the 00s to reach your own conclusions if you weren't so biased.

 

[staubsauger]

Rabobank helped and organized his doping. It's not they just knew about it, they were included.

My opinion is Rasmussen shouldn't have lost that case. But maybe he was a bit too open the last months.

In the end a reason to hold on some antipathy agains Belkin