The revenge of Rasmussen ...

[MarkvW]

Calling him a weasel is a rather poor judgement.
Landis didn't act all entitled when he got caught.
He panicked, entered in depression, started drinking, god knows what else.
Here was someone of whom we can honestly say "he did what everybody else did", namely dope to race faster.
No Lance techniques.
A troubled but genuine type of guy in all respects.

Sorry, my bad. Floyd wasn't a weasel. He was an absolute gentleman at all times. His defense against the doping charges was exemplary at all times--especially his kind and thoughtful treatment of Greg Lemond.

Floyd is a true victim of cycling. Poor guy. If it wasn't for the really bad guys in cycling he would have been one of the two clean American Tour winners.

 

[theyoungest]

A typical Dutch omerta boy.''Rabo was bad but others were too!''

Stop the wining act, human plasma will come out. Ur hero Boogey will be exposed.

Where did you learn to read? Another product of our wonderful Dutch school system? Jeez.

The 'omerta boy' is asking for the facts to be revealed. But not in this way. These kind of anonymous, contradictory statements don't tell us anything. Unless, like you, you seek confirmation of your own suspicions, not interested in actual proof.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Sorry, my bad. Floyd wasn't a weasel. He was an absolute gentleman at all times. His defense against the doping charges was exemplary at all times--especially his kind and thoughtful treatment of Greg Lemond.

Floyd is a true victim of cycling. Poor guy. If it wasn't for the really bad guys in cycling he would have been one of the two clean American Tour winners.

lol, I have see images of Landis sticking a needle in the arm and emptying bags of blood in cheap hotels in France all for President and country.

 

[sniper]

Sorry, my bad. Floyd wasn't a weasel. He was an absolute gentleman at all times. His defense against the doping charges was exemplary at all times--especially his kind and thoughtful treatment of Greg Lemond.

Floyd is a true victim of cycling. Poor guy. If it wasn't for the really bad guys in cycling he would have been one of the two clean American Tour winners.

more poor judgement.

Lemond was going to spill beans from a private phone conversation he had had with Landis. Landis had told Greg in confidentiality that he had doped. And Greg spills it in court. Not nice of Greg. Understandable (in my opinion) that Floyd was ****ed. Subsequent conversation is not hard to imagine:
"Greg, if you speak out about what I said to you that day, you're gonna ruin my life. So be sure I'm also going to speak out about some things you said that day".
Not nice of Landis, but imo understandable. He panicked and must have been furious at Greg for the fact that Greg was going to spill from a confidential conversation.
Floyd later apologized to Greg. Signs of humanity. From all of Floyd's subsequent actions, his character, i get the feeling he's genuine.

 

[MarkvW]

more poor judgement.

Lemond was going to spill beans from a private phone conversation he had had with Landis. Landis had told Greg in confidentiality that he had doped. And Greg spills it in court. Not nice of Greg. Understandable (in my opinion) that Floyd was ****ed. Subsequent conversation is not hard to imagine:
"Greg, if you speak out about what I said to you that day, you're gonna ruin my life. So be sure I'm also going to speak out about some things you said that day".
Not nice of Landis, but imo understandable. He panicked and must have been furious at Greg for the fact that Greg was going to spill from a confidential conversation.
Floyd later apologized to Greg. Signs of humanity. From all of Floyd's subsequent actions, his character, i get the feeling he's genuine.

This is precious. Play that kind of love for Lance and you'd be scorned to death by the haters.

 

[snackattack]

A typical Dutch omerta boy.

 

[sniper]

This is precious. Play that kind of love for Lance and you'd be scorned to death by the haters.

Your poor people's judgement shines through again.
If one plays that kind of love for Landis, it is implied that one won't play that kind of love for Lance. As I tried to explain, he and Landis are on opposite sides on a scale from humain/modest to a-hole/arrogant.

by the way, now that we've mentioned it:
I love Greg, but why was he speaking out against Floyd, spilling beans from a confidential friggin conversation?
That looks like snitching of the worst kind, though I have to admit I don'T know the whole background to that story. Was Greg asked to testify? Or did he voluntarily step forward?
Anyway, based on what I know of the story, I can understand Floyd flipped out when he learned Greg was gonna snitch him out like that.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

well, this is just brilliant. Needs a copy in the chaos thread.

 

[MarkvW]

Your poor people's judgement shines through again.
If one plays that kind of love for Landis, it is implied that one won't play that kind of love for Lance. As I tried to explain, he and Landis are on opposite sides on a scale from humain/modest to a-hole/arrogant.

by the way, now that we've mentioned it:
I love Greg, but why was he speaking out against Floyd, spilling beans from a confidential friggin conversation?
That looks like snitching of the worst kind, though I have to admit I don'T know the whole background to that story. Was Greg asked to testify? Or did he voluntarily step forward?
Anyway, based on what I know of the story, I can understand Floyd flipped out when he learned Greg was gonna snitch him out like that.

You ought to rethink your opinion of "snitching." Snitching is clearly good in pro cycling. There is no way that testing is going to catch the dopers. Testing science is always chasing to catch up to doping science. Only snitches can provide the evidence necessary to catch the dopers.

Floyd's massive snitching was laudatory! Fortunately, for him, it coincided with his financial self interest. Hopefully Floyd will be able to pull some money off of Lance.

I'm not going to defend Greg Lemond for you. He's a great hero and he needs no defense. Floyd, on the other hand, needs all the little snipers he can get!

 

[BroDeal]

more poor judgement.

Lemond was going to spill beans from a private phone conversation he had had with Landis. Landis had told Greg in confidentiality that he had doped. And Greg spills it in court. Not nice of Greg. Understandable (in my opinion) that Floyd was ****ed.

Landis never admitted to LeMond that he doped. He said something that could be construed as an oblique admission if you want to reach a bit. There was no reason for LeMond to have been at the arbitration. He added nothing of value to the hearing. LeMond's reputation would have been better off if he would not have meddled in the case.

 

[sniper]

You ought to rethink your opinion of "snitching." Snitching is clearly good in pro cycling.

i understand that in your black and white world there's just one type of snitching.
in my world though the circumstances under which Greg decides to snitch on Floyd based on a confidential conversation, are quite different from the circumstances under which Floyd decided to come out of the closet in those emails. Floyd felt like a rat in cage. I think I understand why he went fullthrottle. As for Greg, I'm still trying to understand what drove him to snitch out Floyd.
Also, it's not at all difficult to understand that Floyd must have felt great injustice comparing his own fate to that of Lance.
What injustice did Greg feel? Floyd had been caught already.

 

[MarkvW]

i understand that in your black and white world there's just one type of snitching.
in my world though the circumstances under which Greg decides to snitch on Floyd based on a confidential conversation, are quite different from the circumstances under which Floyd decided to come out of the closet in those emails. Floyd felt like a rat in cage. I think I understand why he went fullthrottle. As for Greg, I'm still trying to understand what drove him to snitch out Floyd.

Should Greg have kept Floyd's doping admission quiet?

Are you kidding me? Isn't that the heart of Omerta?

 

[MarkvW]

i understand that in your black and white world there's just one type of snitching.
in my world though the circumstances under which Greg decides to snitch on Floyd based on a confidential conversation, are quite different from the circumstances under which Floyd decided to come out of the closet in those emails. Floyd felt like a rat in cage. I think I understand why he went fullthrottle. As for Greg, I'm still trying to understand what drove him to snitch out Floyd.
Also, it's not at all difficult to understand that Floyd must have felt great injustice comparing his own fate to that of Lance.
What injustice did Greg feel? Floyd had been caught already.

Floyd went full throttle because he was a committed doping cheat. He followed that path (full throttle) from helping Lance Armstrong, to winning his own Tour de France, to lying throughout the arbitration process, to trying to get a new ride on a pro team. In other words, Floyd was a typical pro cyclist. No better and no worse.

 

[sniper]

Floyd went full throttle because he was a committed doping cheat. He followed that path (full throttle) from helping Lance Armstrong, to winning his own Tour de France, to lying throughout the arbitration process, to trying to get a new ride on a pro team. In other words, Floyd was a typical pro cyclist. No better and no worse.

respect your view, and can agree with the part in bold.
Anyway, his time between August 2007 and 2010 must have been one hell of a bad dream. I feel a mixture of empathy, pity and sympathy for the guy, but that's largely a matter of personal taste of course.

 

[GJB123]

i understand that in your black and white world there's just one type of snitching.
in my world though the circumstances under which Greg decides to snitch on Floyd based on a confidential conversation, are quite different from the circumstances under which Floyd decided to come out of the closet in those emails. Floyd felt like a rat in cage. I think I understand why he went fullthrottle. As for Greg, I'm still trying to understand what drove him to snitch out Floyd.
Also, it's not at all difficult to understand that Floyd must have felt great injustice comparing his own fate to that of Lance.
What injustice did Greg feel? Floyd had been caught already.

Perhaps because LeMond feels a genuine love for (clean) cycling. From all his actions so far, it seems to me that LeMond is a very genuine guy who is upstanding and honest. But hey, that is just me. In that respect I can imagine that he didn't want Landis to get away with doping on some technicality and stepped in (needed or not).

From someone who seems so hellbent on cheats being exposed I find it strange that you apply different standards when it comes to Landis. Do we se a bit of fanboism here in the ever so righteous sniper?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

I love Greg, but why was he speaking out against Floyd, spilling beans from a confidential friggin conversation?
That looks like snitching of the worst kind, though I have to admit I don'T know the whole background to that story.

Ah, I did not realise that there were rules in place. Under what circumstances is it ok for a person to 'spill the beans' on someone that is doping?

 

[GJB123]

Ah, I did not realise that there were rules in place. Under what circumstances is it ok for a person to 'spill the beans' on someone that is doping?

Well that's obvious isn't it? When it concerns Armstrong, any rider from Garmin or Sky or Alberto Contador everything is allowed.

 

[RownhamHill]

If one plays that kind of love for Landis, it is implied that one won't play that kind of love for Lance. As I tried to explain, he and Landis are on opposite sides on a scale from humain/modest to a-hole/arrogant.

i understand that in your black and white world. . .

Got to say to me it doesn't look like it is MarkW who is living in a black and white world on this particular subject. . .

 

[sniper]

Perhaps because LeMond feels a genuine love for (clean) cycling. From all his actions so far, it seems to me that LeMond is a very genuine guy who is upstanding and honest. But hey, that is just me. In that respect I can imagine that he didn't want Landis to get away with doping on some technicality and stepped in (needed or not).

From someone who seems so hellbent on cheats being exposed I find it strange that you apply different standards when it comes to Landis. Do we se a bit of fanboism here in the ever so righteous sniper?

I'm definitely a landis fanboy, you got me there.

I also agree on your judgement of Lemond. Genuine and fighting for clean cycling. But in this case I think he was too genuine. Too honest. Too good.

Just imagine:
You tell your best friend in all confidentiality that last night you cheated on your girlfriend. Next day, your best friend steps up to your girlfriend to spill the beans.

 

[hrotha]

Maybe he's friends with your girlfriend too.

You're being completely inconsistent, and by not admitting it you're being hypocritical. What Landis did to LeMond was disgusting and uncalled for. Sure, they've patched up since then, and I believe Landis is a much more decent human being than that incident suggests, but it still can't be justified or excused. So, don't try.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

I'm definitely a landis fanboy, you got me there.

I also agree on your judgement of Lemond. Genuine and fighting for clean cycling. But in this case I think he was too genuine. Too honest. Too good.

Just imagine:
You tell your best friend in all confidentiality that last night you cheated on your girlfriend. Next day, your best friend steps up to your girlfriend to spill the beans.

I guess you would get someone to he call him and threaten to reveal that he had been sexually molested as a child by a family friend?

 

[sniper]

I guess you would get someone to he call him and threaten to reveal that he had been sexually molested as a child by a family friend?

if my life depended on it, yes.

 

[sniper]

Maybe he's friends with your girlfriend too.

You're being completely inconsistent, and by not admitting it you're being hypocritical. What Landis did to LeMond was disgusting and uncalled for. Sure, they've patched up since then, and I believe Landis is a much more decent human being than that incident suggests, but it still can't be justified or excused. So, don't try.

wasn't my intention to excuse it. if I did I take it back.
basically wanted to say what you say in bold. thanks, well said.
and to stress that, as this case shows, desperate needs lead to desperate deeds. (Een kat in het nauw maakt rare sprongen)
while desperate deeds are not always excusable, they are sometimes understandable.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

if my life depended on it, yes.

I take life to mean livelihood rather than personal well-being?

That being the case how can you ever criticise anyone that lies about doping without being a complete hypocrite?

 

[sniper]

I take life to mean livelihood rather than personal well-being?

That being the case how can you ever criticise anyone that lies about doping without being a complete hypocrite?

indeed, livelihood is what I meant, thanks.

I don't criticise anybody who lies about doping per se.
I criticise those who believe such lies.

True, they should not and cannot be excused, but I'm not sure what's hypocrit about showing some understanding for Landis' previous lies.