The revenge of Rasmussen ...

[sniper]

I take life to mean livelihood rather than personal well-being?

That being the case how can you ever criticise anyone that lies about doping without being a complete hypocrite?

indeed, livelihood is what I meant, thanks.

I don't criticise anybody who lies about doping per se. (i might or might not, depending on the circumstances)
I do tend to criticise those who believe such lies.

but ok, I'll stop Landis' defense here, as I agree some of his previous acts don't deserve being excused for, and since it's waaaaay off topic of course. apologies to the mods for letting it drift.

 

[Benotti69]

Landis is an a@@ too.

Landis was an a@se too for sure. But I appreciate what he a has done the last few years and I am prepared to cut him a little slack, leave the noose on but dont tie it to the tree yet.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I appreciate what he a has done the last few years and I am prepared to cut him a little slack, leave the noose on but dont tie it to the tree yet.

But of course, he gets credit. He is a tragic man who in the end couldn't do more than just confess.

I like his credibility
[nowadays]

Well that's obvious isn't it? When it concerns Armstrong, any rider from Garmin or Sky or Alberto Contador everything is allowed.

Why exclude RABO?

[=back on topic ]

 

[Leendert82]

Leave the Landis/Lemond discussions for their own threads pls...

Good news: The KNWU and the 3 Dutch World Tour teams Blanco, Vacansoleil and Argos Shimano have asked Cyclists to speak openly about their doping usage. and for those that committed doping offences before 2008 they would not loose their current job and will receive milder punishments.

Finally we will get to know for sure who all used doping in the past, the likes of Boogerd, Dekker and others. Talking about the past is getting 1 step closer to working on a solution to have cycling without Doping imo.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Leave the Landis/Lemond discussions for their own threads pls...

Good news: The KNWU and the 3 Dutch World Tour teams Blanco, Vacansoleil and Argos Shimano have asked Cyclists to speak openly about their doping usage. and for those that committed doping offences before 2008 they would not loose their current job and will receive milder punishments.

Finally we will get to know for sure who all used doping in the past, the likes of Boogerd, Dekker and others. Talking about the past is getting 1 step closer to working on a solution to have cycling without Doping imo.

Looks good on paper. Now we need the first ever active rider with something to lose to step forward voluntarily. That has never happened before, but perhaps we shall witness such a thing now. Major test coming up.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Leave the Landis/Lemond discussions for their own threads pls...

Good news: The KNWU and the 3 Dutch World Tour teams Blanco, Vacansoleil and Argos Shimano have asked Cyclists to speak openly about their doping usage. and for those that committed doping offences before 2008 they would not loose their current job and will receive milder punishments.

Finally we will get to know for sure who all used doping in the past, the likes of Boogerd, Dekker and others. Talking about the past is getting 1 step closer to working on a solution to have cycling without Doping imo.

Can't they just come clean at RTL Boulevard? In wonderboy-Oprah style that is

If, I say if, they want to get to the bottom it would have to come from within the Rabobank [=the bank] itsself with help of the justice department. Interview riders under oath, promise them a sweet deal, and get on with it.

Never gonna happen.

 

[snackattack]

more trouble for the bank i.o.u. blanco

Another rider came out of the woodwork today, who also is to testify that big Theo de R was sitting next to chicken when the whereabouts word was spread >> cyclingnews.com/news/riders-knew-of-rasmussens-whereabouts

if I'm not mistaken, it could be anyone of these four:

moerenhout
van heeswijk
van bon
boven

all four were part of Rabobank in 1998 and 2007.

The list submitted to testify in court Thursday, March 7, 2013 is growing.

10 days prior to the court date the final list will be released.

One of the biggest Dutch law firms aligned with the bank over the years might slip into dire straits,
as their CEO at the same time was governing the Dutch anti doping agency as chair.

 

[sniper]

Dutch newspaper NRC handelsblad opens today with an article about Rabobank doping.

they started in 1996 seeigin they couldn'T compete without EPO. Untill 1998 EPO and PEDs were offered/arranged by the team management. After the festina affiar, the management decided to no longer proactively offer PEDs, and the new policy became that riders had to go ask for PEDs, and they would then get it, so it was merely a way to shift responsability away from the management onto the riders. There was some fear that Rabo might jump ship if management's involvement in doping would come to light.
Riders testimonies reveal that there were some clean guys, some who doped moderately, and a couple of guys who doped full throttle. Three names surface in that latter category: Mentchov, Rasmussen and Boogerd.

 

[hrotha]

They started in 1996? Does that take the pre-Rabobank incarnations of the team into account? Maybe it does - Novell and WordPerfect weren't particularly successful teams after all, if memory serves.

As for the heaviest dopers in the team, gee, that's a shocker.

 

[cineteq]

Has anybody seen the source of this?

José Been @TourDeJose
Michael Rasmussen allegedly rode TDF 2007 on five bloodbags, 100.000 unities op EPO, cortisones and human growth hormones.

 

[Lanark]

Has anybody seen the source of this?

José Been @TourDeJose
Michael Rasmussen allegedly rode TDF 2007 on five bloodbags, 100.000 unities op EPO, cortisones and human growth hormones.

Some article in NRC, anonymous source.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Dutch newspaper NRC handelsblad opens today with an article about Rabobank doping.

they started in 1996 seeigin they couldn'T compete without EPO. Untill 1998 EPO and PEDs were offered/arranged by the team management. After the festina affiar, the management decided to no longer proactively offer PEDs, and the new policy became that riders had to go ask for PEDs, and they would then get it, so it was merely a way to shift responsability away from the management onto the riders. There was some fear that Rabo might jump ship if management's involvement in doping would come to light.
Riders testimonies reveal that there were some clean guys, some who doped moderately, and a couple of guys who doped full throttle. Three names surface in that latter category: Mentchov, Rasmussen and Boogerd.

except not a single (new) source. bs journalism at it again

 

[Lanark]

except not a single (new) source. bs journalism at it again

How could you possibly know that?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

In the shadow of Armstrong, Thomas Dekker now admits he has been using blooddoping and EPO sinds his 2nd year at Rabobank in 2006. He thought it was the only way of getting success back then, influenced by the riders around him. He got his doping via the team doctor when he asked for it. And at that time it was fully condoned within Rabobank...
Full interview is in NRC, haven't read it yet

 

[sniper]

http://www.nu.nl/sport/3007792/thomas-dekker-bekent-gebruik-bloeddoping.html

erik dekker is still denying, even though teammates have implicated him as a blooddoper.

thomas dekker tells how the team docs helped him transfuse.


goes to show once more that, really, the main if not only reason for all these docs in cycling is for the administration and monitoring of (blood)doping.

vaughters needs to explain why garmin had two phlebotomists in 2010 in addition to another doc with unspecified specialisms and a physiologist.
brailsford needs to explain what the hell leinders and bartalucci were doing doing at sky.
etc. etc. etc.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

the stories on Leinder/Rabobank/Boogerd/Menchov are really piling up these days

 

[Cimber]

According to the same article Riis (!) warned Raas about Rasmussen in an e-mail.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Bad timing of NRC, the must have known this was wonderboyweek?

But, to put things into perspective, Edwig van Hooijdonck suddenly quit cycling on the 30th of april 1996, would that have anything to do with this story?

 

[sniper]

the stories on Leinder/Rabobank/Boogerd/Menchov are really piling up these days

yep, yet I haven't yet heard anyone confirm that there was less doping after (or as of) 2008.

According to Vaughters, 2008 marked a turnaround in the peloton.
A gentlemen's agreement in that year was apparently made according to which teams would take it down a notch or two wrt PEDs.
It would be great to have this confirmed by one of the dozen witnesses that in the meantime have come forward about doping at Rabo.

Was doping reduced after 2008?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

There was a seperate story in the NRC, that went along with the TD story

In 2008, when Knebel came, it was the end of doping and Rabobank. They hardhandedly told T.Dekker he was not wanted anymore, neither was Boogerd when he quit. And they forced Leinders out by 2009 as well. There was also a story of a young rider asking for ways to dope himself when he came over to the pro's in 2008 and they told him they don't do that anymore and he shouldn't take anything...
The mystery to me is why E.Dekker was allowed to stay all this time, even now

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

The mystery to me is why E.Dekker was allowed to stay all this time, even now

He was clean as hell when he had those Supranatural years...

These guys have no conscience. Let's ask dear old Erik Dekker what he thought at the time of the sudden retirement of Edwig van Hooydonck.

 

[sniper]

There was a seperate story in the NRC, that went along with the TD story

In 2008, when Knebel came, it was the end of doping and Rabobank. They hardhandedly told T.Dekker he was not wanted anymore, neither was Boogerd when he quit. And they forced Leinders out by 2009 as well. There was also a story of a young rider asking for ways to dope himself when he came over to the pro's in 2008 and they told him they don't do that anymore and he shouldn't take anything...
The mystery to me is why E.Dekker was allowed to stay all this time, even now

does not sound fully unconvincing at first sight.

but Freire had a very strong 2010. Clean?

LLS, not bad in 2011/12 (though perhaps not spectacular either).

And Barredo, apart from his recent positive, he was suspect to the UCI already in 2009/10. Knebel could have known.
Why did Rabo sign Barredo and LLS? Not convincing.


(In general, it seems the 2008 truce was an anglo-saxon thing. Contador apparently didn't get the memo either.)

 

[Bavarianrider]

So they had systematic team doping until 2012.
Way to go dutchies!
But what's really the big logical consequnce out of this.
If Rabobank had such a programm all the way till 2012, we must assume that surely they were not alone.

 

[Lanark]

does not sound fully unconvincing at first sight.

but Freire had a very strong 2010. Clean?

LLS, not bad in 2011/12 (though perhaps not spectacular either).

And Barredo, apart from his recent positive, he was suspect to the UCI already in 2009/10. Knebel could have known.
Why did Rabo sign Barredo and LLS? Not convincing.


(In general, it seems the 2008 truce was an anglo-saxon thing. Contador apparently didn't get the memo either.)

Afaik Freire is never mentioned or even hinted at in these stories. Anyway, it's pretty obvious that in 2007/2008 wanted to ever repeat a Rasmussen-drama again, and I don't doubt that at least Knebel was genuine in his intent to make the team clean. Whether you belief they actually succeeded is another thing.

So they had systematic team doping until 2012.
Way to go dutchies!
But what's really the big logical consequnce out of this.
If Rabobank had such a programm all the way till 2012, we must assume that surely they were not alone.

What?

 

[sniper]

Afaik Freire is never mentioned or even hinted at in these stories. Anyway, it's pretty obvious that in 2007/2008 wanted to ever repeat a Rasmussen-drama again, and I don't doubt that at least Knebel was genuine in his intent to make the team clean. Whether you belief they actually succeeded is another thing.


What?

true. Freire thus far unmentioned.