The revenge of Rasmussen ...

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

He's a ****ing whiner, not even man enough to say: Yeah right, I did it to become one of the most sucssesful riders in the world and earn lots of money and yeah, it was nessecary. And yes, I'd do it again and I'm glad I don't have to any more. Instead he still tries to justify and to put it into perspective, what a ****ing whiner.

When You live in a lie for 15 plus years, of course he doped as a junior, you might be starting to believe in that lie. Human nature.

In earlier publications we got to know Boogerds hematocrit was 39 in the off season, that says more than enough for me on his clean abilities. He would have a 25% bonus with EPO, that is more than the Rabobank bankers get...

So, who is left on the Rabobank hitlist?
* Erik Dekker
* Karsten Kroon?
* Oscarito
* Sorensen
* the Zbergs
* Menchov

or the frustrated super-talented clean riders who could have ruled the world if not for these evil cheaters who oughta be hung on the nearest tree

Why so nasty to someone who actually did race at a decent level.

Yeah, what a whiner. Trying to put something in perspective. How dare he!

Ask Edwig van Hooydonk about perspective.

 

[Cloxxki]

I have some intel that Kroon has either been clean all along, or has been for a number of years. I suspect the latter.
There are a number of Dutch riders who are doing quite well, and are actually very, very well studied into natural (legal) supplements. Just kkeeping theirr mouths shut about it, to keep that edge over those spending their energy on not getting caught.
The EPO gang doesn't need all that, and once you EPO it doesn't make sense to balance an ideal natural supplement program for yourself. It's much more complicated to figure out than blood doping, it takes a lot of reading and time to experiment. What might work well for me, might be useless to you. Per substance the gains certainly are marginal, but they can add up quite a bit. Just not like an EPO/BB program.
When a pro riders seems to have lost a spark, I now suspect them of having gone clean, and into legal supplements. Just going clean, and no supplements, then you're supply off to the amateur ranks. And not even winning there.

 

[Mr.38%]

In earlier publications we got to know Boogerds hematocrit was 39 in the off season, that says more than enough for me on his clean abilities. He would have a 25% bonus with EPO, that is more than the Rabobank bankers get...

While I agree on the second part, I'd like to point out that HCT is not an indicator of a rider's potential. Talk about absolute Hb mass not percentages.

Also for stage racers, especially GTs, other endocrine parameters (cortisol, T etc.) are almost as important.

 

[Lanark]

Did Rasmussen try to do anything alike? No. Do I condemn Niermann for stating, even with drugs it hurt a lot. No.

Yes, who didn't? Those guys had the choice to start doping and become and a good pro, or drop out or become a marginal rider. He chose the first option, like most others in that period. And like all others, he lied about it untill he couldn't any more. Most of his competitors from those days still keep their mouths shut. I really don't see how that differs from Rasmussen and Niermann?

.Ask Edwig van Hooydonk about perspective.

Didn't that guy quit in 1996? He was hardly hurt much by Boogerd.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

While I agree on the second part, I'd like to point out that HCT is not an indicator of a rider's potential. Talk about absolute Hb mass not percentages.

Also for stage racers, especially GTs, other endocrine parameters (cortisol, T etc.) are almost as important.

It of course is a combination, hct/hemaglobine/T.E. etc etc but a 25% raise comes in quite handy...

Didn't that guy quit in 1996? He was hardly hurt much by Boogerd.

Are u playing a fool or?

 

[Netserk]

I have some intel that Kroon has either been clean all along, or has been for a number of years. I suspect the latter.

Judging by his performances, I'd say he stopped after leaving Saxo in '09, for BMC in '10

 

[Lanark]

Judging by his performances, I'd say he stopped after leaving Saxo in '09, for BMC in '10

Kroon has had a couple of very bad crashes the last couple of years, I don't think just looking at the CQ-ranking will help much in this case.

 

[will10]

Not even a separate thread ...


Well, another nail in CN forum's coffin ...

How does the Boogerd admission not belong in the Rabobank thread?

 

[Netserk]

Kroon has had a couple of very bad crashes the last couple of years, I don't think just looking at the CQ-ranking will help much in this case.

It was mostly just to post a graph that supported what I said

It's primary based on the level I have seen him, and he just haven't been the same since leaving Saxo (in '09). And if he at one time stopped doping, it would be most likely that that would have been the time.

 

[hrotha]

OK CN, this crap translations malarkey has to end. NOW. Hire ****ing professional translators, goddammit.

 

[sniper]

OK CN, this crap translations malarkey has to end. NOW. Hire ****ing professional translators, goddammit.

+1
some pieces have "google translate" written all over it.

 

[Netserk]

OK CN, this crap translations malarkey has to end. NOW. Hire ****ing professional translators, goddammit.

You are a translator, no?

 

[hrotha]

You are a translator, no?

Yes.

Not for Dutch > English, mind, although I'm fairly confident I could do a better job than the bot they're currently employing.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

It was mostly just to post a graph that supported what I said

It's primary based on the level I have seen him, and he just haven't been the same since leaving Saxo (in '09). And if he at one time stopped doping, it would be most likely that that would have been the time.

Born 29/01/1976, he could still be doping but age takes some performance away. Who knows about these guys.

 

[sniper]

How does the Boogerd admission not belong in the Rabobank thread?

I'm not gonna open one, but Boogerd's admission surely deserves a separate thread.
The nature and frequency of his denials are right up there in the Armstrong category. Boogerd provides another lovely, well-documented, case study of cheating and lying. Note also that in his denials Boogerd has often used logic similar to Wiggins', e.g. asking how one could possibly proof one's innocence.
Armstrong was an icon to Boogerd.

http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/03/06...-over-doping-bewijs-je-onschuld-maar-eens-he/

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

So Boogerd did not use HGH, how did he get those frontteeth?



I do not believe him when he states he started in 1997, I call BS.

 

[Avoriaz]

Didn't that guy quit in 1996? He was hardly hurt much by Boogerd.

1996 at the age of 30 - cos he couldn't keep up with those on EPO. Hurt by all those riders doing it

 

[sniper]

So Boogerd did not use HGH, how did he get those frontteeth?

incredible how quickly wikipedia sites are updated these days.
the german wikipedia site on boogerd already has the confession included.

 

[Cloxxki]

Yes.

Not for Dutch > English, mind, although I'm fairly confident I could do a better job than the bot they're currently employing.

I have time to do it. Could use a job. CN, hire me!

 

[Kender]

so when rabobank pulled out of the tour after the Chicken got popped (riders decision), Boogerd and others said they felt betrayed.

betrayed because they were helping a doper? (this was the impression given at the time)
but now... or because he was dumb enough to get caught?

or maybe he didnt feel betrayed by the Chicken at all. maybe it was aimed towards the team management

 

[Netserk]

so when rabobank pulled out of the tour after the Chicken got popped (riders decision), Boogerd and others said they felt betrayed.

betrayed because they were helping a doper? (this was the impression given at the time)
but now... or because he was dumb enough to get caught?

or maybe he didnt feel betrayed by the Chicken at all. maybe it was aimed towards the team management

Rabo didn't pull out of the tour. Rasmussen was thrown out and the rest of the team continued.

 

[sniper]

so when rabobank pulled out of the tour after the Chicken got popped (riders decision), Boogerd and others said they felt betrayed.

betrayed because they were helping a doper? (this was the impression given at the time)
but now... or because he was dumb enough to get caught?

or maybe he didnt feel betrayed by the Chicken at all. maybe it was aimed towards the team management

I remember one interview with Boogerd that year where he made pretty clear that he didn't support/understand the decision to throw Rasmussen out.

 

[Frosty]

Didnt Menchov pull out of the tour after Rasmussen was thrown out?

 

[Netserk]

Didnt Menchov pull out of the tour after Rasmussen was thrown out?

Yes. And shortly after win the Vuelta.

 

[Kender]

Rabo didn't pull out of the tour. Rasmussen was thrown out and the rest of the team continued.

Apologies yes. the comments i remember were before they had decided to continue on. some of the riders had contemplated pulling out (and it may be why menchov pulled out on the following stage)