The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridiculous they can get

[mastersracer]

Valverde wasn't in last year's Tour of Spain.

Do you follow cycling outside of the Tour? Methinks not.

I was referring to Froome dropping Wiggins on a climb (on one stage while Wiggins in leader's jersey). The fact that Valverde was up the road was irrelevant (he was fading and hasn't shown much since his return). Froome is so obviously a more explosive climber than Wiggins that no one should be surprised he opens gaps on them. For all your faux indignation, I don't know why you find Froome's performance surprising. His Vuelta climbing was more impressive. Can't imagine what you'd be writing if he did one of these in the Tour:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5GxKr1XLtk&feature=related

 

[zlev11]

One I didn't pick was Froome and Wiggins riding away from the lead group with Froome freewheeling up a mountain top finish gesturing at the yellow jersey. At will he wanted to chase down a former Tour of Spain winner and had to soft soft pedal and wait for the yellow jersey.

I'd thought I's seen it all but apparently not!

nah we've definitely seen it before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dk1KC9DDBQ

 

[Maxiton]

Froome in the front, Wiggins behind?

What a dynamic duo. And they would never dope, you know that, because they are Spanish and Italian. sorry, I mean British.

 

[thehog]

I was referring to Froome dropping Wiggins on a climb (on one stage while Wiggins in leader's jersey). The fact that Valverde was up the road was irrelevant (he was fading and hasn't shown much since his return). Froome is so obviously a more explosive climber than Wiggins that no one should be surprised he opens gaps on them. For all your faux indignation, I don't know why you find Froome's performance surprising. His Vuelta climbing was more impressive. Can't imagine what you'd be writing if he did one of these in the Tour:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5GxKr1XLtk&feature=related

Sorry did you say something? I couldn't hear you over my friend Ivan Basso laughing at Porte's new found climbing skills.

Too fast he said - "couldn't attack".

And to think all week you've been telling us Sky have been doing tempo and not catching the break.

Take it away Ivan.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

(he was fading and hasn't shown much since his return).

Apart from a podium in 2 different WT races with a stage win in each, a top 10 in another riding in support of a teammate and a decent early-season short stage race win. He's got 5 victories since his comeback. Not bad at all. A lot of riders coming back have less exciting first years but come back strong in the second (Basso, Scarponi, di Luca, Sella...)

 

[Squire]

*picture of Piepoli & Cobo*

I'm calling your Saunier Duval mountain top one-two, and raising by this for tomorrow:

 

[mastersracer]

Sorry did you say something? I couldn't hear you over my friend Ivan Basso laughing at Porte's new found climbing skills.

Too fast he said - "couldn't attack".

And to think all week you've been telling us Sky have been doing tempo and not catching the break.

Take it away Ivan.

another misdirection. I've already said elsewhere why you're not saying anything interesting (technically it's uninformative because you're simply relying on base rates). You don't answer serious questions because your view isn't based on anything informative. There are people who have forgotten more than you'll ever know about exercise physiology (e.g., Coggan) who are agnostic about whether these sorts of performances involve doping for the simple reason that there is no basis for establishing doping from these performances. We all know the base rate information. Let us know when you have something interesting and informative to say.

 

[thehog]

another misdirection. I've already said elsewhere why you're not saying anything interesting (technically it's uninformative because you're simply relying on base rates). You don't answer serious questions because your view isn't based on anything informative. There are people who have forgotten more than you'll ever know about exercise physiology (e.g., Coggan) who are agnostic about whether these sorts of performances involve doping for the simple reason that there is no basis for establishing doping from these performances. We all know the base rate information. Let us know when you have something interesting and informative to say.

I say lots of interesting things. You just don't like what you hear.

If Basso says we can't attack then cycling is in trouble.

But its ok I'm not here to burst your bubble. If you think you're witnessing clean cycling - good.

I've stated clearly what I've observed. And now I have have Tour de France cyclists agreeing with me.

I find it interesting as do many others. Sorry to disappoint.

 

[will10]

So how many Skys in the top 10 tomorrow? I'll go for four, with a 1-2 obviously.

 

[sittingbison]

They really are in a bind, because at 2 mins Froome is close enough to pip Wiggo if anything goes wrong - a mechanical, flat, bad day (lol as if), or if Froome takes GF Counds advice/nagging and goes for it. That is Wiggos/Sky fear, that Froome breaks ranks. Sometimes it happens (though usually only with sly continentals and not honest Brits).

 

[Ferminal]

I'm calling your Saunier Duval mountain top one-two, and raising by this for tomorrow:

2006 Vuelta was better.

 

[D-Queued]

They really are in a bind, because at 2 mins Froome is close enough to pip Wiggo if anything goes wrong - a mechanical, flat, bad day (lol as if), or if Froome takes GF Counds advice/nagging and goes for it. That is Wiggos/Sky fear, that Froome breaks ranks. Sometimes it happens (though usually only with sly continentals and not honest Brits).

If it is anywhere near close, expect the DS to scream at Froome to sit up with 1 klick to go.

Dave.

 

[Maxiton]

If it is anywhere near close, expect the DS to scream at Froome to sit up with 1 klick to go.

Dave.

What would be awesome is if Froome pulls out his earpiece and then "accidentally" beats Wiguns by, say, thirty seconds.

 

[JeffreyPerry]

Sorry did you say something? I couldn't hear you over my friend Ivan Basso laughing at Porte's new found climbing skills.

Too fast he said - "couldn't attack".

And to think all week you've been telling us Sky have been doing tempo and not catching the break.

Take it away Ivan.

Of all the lines to come out of this Forum, this one has to be one of my favs!

 

[Maxiton]

Of all the lines to come out of this Forum, this one has to be one of my favs!

I concur.

 

[Franklin]

. There are people who have forgotten more than you'll ever know about exercise physiology (e.g., Coggan) who are agnostic about whether these sorts of performances involve doping for the simple reason that there is no basis for establishing doping from these performances.

Hey Master, I expected this.

So let me sum it up.

Not just the clinic who thinks these performances are eyepopping, now even Evans, and Basso, who clearly have no idea at all as they only have first-hand experience of winning GT's mark the performances as "inredible" and even "laughable". But hey, what do they know?

*And this silly man Ferrari estimates their VAM"s much higher, putting them right wehere we really don't want to see them. But what does Ferrari know about exercise physiology?

Master, step back, take a deep breath, maybe, just maybe... there might be something to see here?

Naah, let's party for our clean UK winner! No questions allowed and rightly so! Why would we dare to question the clearly most logically clean winner of a GT ever! Nothing to see here folks, move along!

 

[meat puppet]

I've been enjoying Wiggo doing leadouts for Cav. Paraphrasing Basso, only true champions could do that.

 

[Franklin]

And true to the nature of this thread:

Olympics:
Cav+Wiggo gold.
Another slew of medals from track.

All because of "home advantage" and "marginal gains".

The wailing we have now will reach the heavens and the defenders frantically will have to show how plausible it all will be. It will be great fun

 

[Ripper]

Olympic destruction, World's domination, knighthood for all

 

[Square-pedaller]

And true to the nature of this thread:

Olympics:
Cav+Wiggo gold.
Another slew of medals from track.

All because of "home advantage" and "marginal gains".

The wailing we have now will reach the heavens and the defenders frantically will have to show how plausible it all will be. It will be great fun

One of the things I love about cycling is that sometimes the totally unpredicatble happens. Hope still rides.

 

[tobsie]

Wiggo, Froome, Hagen, Rogers and Porte in top 12 today

 

[Paco_P]

Everyone here is a clinical expert, and can diagnose whether a rider cheated by the way he pedals on a bike.

With a little bit of common sense it becomes clear that there are ways a 35 year old man pedals on a bike that are not possible without extra special assistance.

Maybe if you are 23 this is not yet clear to you, but once you get to be 40, it will be.

 

[mastersracer]

Hey Master, I expected this.

So let me sum it up.

Not just the clinic who thinks these performances are eyepopping, now even Evans, and Basso, who clearly have no idea at all as they only have first-hand experience of winning GT's mark the performances as "inredible" and even "laughable". But hey, what do they know?

*And this silly man Ferrari estimates their VAM"s much higher, putting them right wehere we really don't want to see them. But what does Ferrari know about exercise physiology?

Master, step back, take a deep breath, maybe, just maybe... there might be something to see here?

Naah, let's party for our clean UK winner! No questions allowed and rightly so! Why would we dare to question the clearly most logically clean winner of a GT ever! Nothing to see here folks, move along!

Again, some baiting rhetoric but no information. Ferrari has posted for Belles Filles only. He estimates 6.47 w/kg. Tucker gave estimates of 6.4-6.5 w/kg and puts those in context where they are not unrealistic and do not give evidence of doping. So, the claim that Ferrari explicitly posts doping-indicative #s is false.

Re Basso's statements and other riders, Berzin has an excellent post of this in the other thread showing why you and Hog have naively misinterpreted those statements.

As for taking a breadth, I'm not invested in this issue or Sky. In fact, I grew up in Canada (now in CA) and was hoping Rdyer would do well. I'm not a Wiggins fan. It's a poor bit of rhetorical writing to suggest those who disagree with you are emotionally wrought when you know nothing about their mental state.

Here's the point: the performances this year are consistent with non-doping and that is why leading physiologists in the sport are agnostic about doping from those performances. The climbing data - the only quantitative and objective way to measure performances across cohorts - is consistent with non-doping - even Ferrari's post. The inference of doping is purely based on prior probabilities. This is why it is uninformative. It is simply using base rates. It's as informative as me saying that a swimmer who does unexpectedly well at the Olympics is doping. If you have anything informative to say - some specific evidence - let us know.

 

[thehog]

Sad day when we quote Ferrari for evidence of clean cycling! The guy just recieved a lifetime ban from cycling!

And of course Basso is confused. Doesn't know what he he's talking about.

If the team carrying the 3rd place holder is stating the pace is too fast to attack when Porte is riding on the lower slopes then you know something is up.

The question remains... what is that something?

 

[will10]

Damn, Rogers and Porte are putting in believable performances in the ITT to con us.