Wiggo Warrior said:
If you actually read the book, it says he wanted to strengthen his body via gym work WITHOUT gaining any muscle weight whatsoever.
If you actually read the book, it says he wanted to strengthen his body via gym work WITHOUT gaining any muscle weight whatsoever.
- Sep 29, 2012
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sniper said:
Transparency, transparency, wherefore art though now, transparency?
5 years worth!
I think if they revealed all the data - anonymised - for all the riders, there'd be a veritable "What the-!?" from anyone with half a brain.
I double dare them.
thehog said:
Yes I would say so Hog. Just had a look at Tyler's book and he reports a watts/kilo of 6.5 just before the Dauphine in 2001.
samerics said:
Ever heard the expression 'those who protest too much'. For example someone challenges you on something if you really in your heart of hearts know you are right then your unlikely to react with anger and spite in that way.
SundayRider said:
Trouble with that is that you are assuming that every person reacts in exactly the same way in any given situation.
- Apr 20, 2012
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Thanks for that, so insightful as ever
And Sir Knighthood never gets old.SundayRider said:
What was most worrying was that he didn't "lose it" he delivered it in his usual laconic flat style. A legitimate question from a reporter and the first reason in my mind to doubt Wiggins.
- Jul 27, 2009
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zalacain said:
Before the outburst I predicted his reaction. Cheats never like being called out. They over emphasise their denials.
A violent reaction at the first question about doping.
It's not hard to pick out a doper. They all display the same traits.
- Apr 20, 2012
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Thanks, I thought u might like it.xcleigh said:Thanks for that, so insightful as ever
Ashenden obviously knows what time it is.Dear Wiggo said:
Hoberman's recent interview gave me a spark of hope that CCN is in fact determined to increase the pressure and continue the quest.
However, it's incredibly telling that not one single cycling team has given public support or mandate to CCN. Not even Garmin. Vaughters, if he'd want to, could really make some things move. But I'm doubtful he really wants change. Didn't he personally discourage Wiggins to publish his passport data over 2012?
I think nearly everybody currently in the game still has dirty hands which they're eager to wash thoroughly before any change in UCI government takes place.
The main problem is that retrospective testing would be a nightmare to many, particularly to Sky, but I assume also to Garmin, and they know that only Phat can prevent retrospective testing from happening. The current UCI is an insurance company to many of the current protour-teams.
sniper said:
Yeah we keep hearing this 'cycling is much cleaner now' repeated over and over. However there is no proof that it is cleaner and the BP is the only thing the teams point to when giving a reason why it is cleaner now.
- Jul 27, 2009
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I think it's funny that Ashenden and Kimmage are now enemies of the Sky state.
Once they were champions of the cause. Part of the coalition of the willing for clean cycling.
But now they're just celebrity hunters looking to make a quick buck off the back of clean, honest cyclists.
Once they were champions of the cause. Part of the coalition of the willing for clean cycling.
But now they're just celebrity hunters looking to make a quick buck off the back of clean, honest cyclists.
thehog said:
They nearly all come out with the 'I work really hard' line, well er yes using illegal techniques allows you to work harder than before and therefore achieve better results.
Here's why I (and a few others around here) think Vaughters and Wiggins are full of **** as far as 2009 is concerned:
In 2008 everybody at Garmin knew what Armstrong had been up to. Everybody. No exception. There were so many who had ridden with him in the past.
To illustrate: this is Kimmage speaking sometime after he had been with Garmin during the Tour and before Lance returns in 2009:
More Kimmage shortly before Lance's return:
If 2008 was a turning point in cycling, from dirty to clean(er), why didn't ANYBODY at Garmin raise his voice in 2009?
*crickets*
In 2008 everybody at Garmin knew what Armstrong had been up to. Everybody. No exception. There were so many who had ridden with him in the past.
To illustrate: this is Kimmage speaking sometime after he had been with Garmin during the Tour and before Lance returns in 2009:
Yet, when Armstrong comes back in 2009, with full UCI support, Vaughters does and says nothing, knowing Lance would return fully charged and that UCI were going to let it happen.
More Kimmage shortly before Lance's return:
indeed, how depressed Wiggins was...
If 2008 was a turning point in cycling, from dirty to clean(er), why didn't ANYBODY at Garmin raise his voice in 2009?
*crickets*
- Jul 27, 2009
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sniper said:Here's why I (and a few others around here) think Vaughters and Wiggins are full of **** as far as 2009 is concerned:
In 2008 everybody at Garmin knew what Armstrong had been up to. Everybody. No exception. There were so many who had ridden with him in the past.
To illustrate: this is Kimmage speaking sometime after he had been with Garmin during the Tour and before Lance returns in 2009:
Yet, when Armstrong comes back in 2009, with full UCI support, Vaughters does nothing, knowing Lance would return fully charged and that UCI were going to let it happen.
More Kimmage shortly before Lance's return:
indeed, how depressed Wiggins was...
If 2008 was a turning point in cycling, from dirty to clean(er), why didn't ANYBODY raise his voice in 2009?
*crickets*
And Wiggins decided to befriend the very man he would have learnt so much about from the Garmin USPS refugees.
ie how does one get into the bed with the UCI Lance?
- Apr 20, 2012
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http://bicycling.com/blogs/thisjust...-first-british-paris-nice-victor-in-45-years/
So, he was at 95% and just barely beats Liewe Westra, how come he destroyed riders much better than good old Liewe the rest of the season?
Sir Wiggo said:
So, he was at 95% and just barely beats Liewe Westra, how come he destroyed riders much better than good old Liewe the rest of the season?
xcleigh said:
Exactly as I remembered, except it was 'cynics' rather than 'people'.
To be honest his impassioned response makes no sense with respect to the first part, the observation that the Twitter-sphere was commenting that the team looked like US Postal, as the Hog has pointed out above they have all been fielding questions on that since they first announced it was their intention to use those tactics in January and somewhat more pointedly after the Dauphine on Joux Plane.
We know what his response would have been had that been the pertinent point as we have heard it all before. He would be referencing Banesto as well as Postal. Mentioning it was good tactics employed for decades to stop too much attacking in the mountains. Reiterating that they had a strong team and had trained for that.
The only question asked instead, to the new representative of the peloton on his first day in yellow was "What would you say to those cynics...?" who accuse not only yourself but Nibali, JVDB, Cadel Evans, Tejay van Garderen, Thibeau Pinot, Rein Taaramae, Chris Froome etc. of doping, and of none of you/them being able to win the race now or in the future without doing it.
Honestly, I am surprised he didn't lose his temper. As I think he said himself the following day if he had lost it the table would have been overturned.
Pinot may not even be shaving properly yet, he was the youngest rider in the race, he only lost 1:24 on Belle Filles finishing ahead of many more established climbers and then won the following stage brilliantly and at the time was only seconds back from the white jersey (Taaramae was the only rider to stay with the heads until the end of Stage 7 and was still wearing white, I think, after stage 8.), I firmly believe that if Pinot improves in the time-trial and is able to build his endurance he could be a future winner, and yet these people are already claiming he is either doping or would have to, in order to win.
Brad clearly believed Cadel was clean when he won. I've never seen any comment from him on Sastre but he was rather busy that year becoming a triple World Champion and double Olympic champion after having sworn never to return to the Tour the year before, so maybe he just missed it. In fact I believe from certain quotes from after the USADA fallout that Brad believed Lance was clean when he came back and respected him for being gracious in defeat. (I am fairly sure he doesn't believe this anymore, and there was another sweary quote on the subject if I remember correctly.)
To my mind this also explains the immediate and unconditional support from his team manager and indeed the whole peloton.
Again this makes no sense if Brad's speech was a response to Postal comparisons rather than the response to 'you're all a bunch of dirty, cheating dopers' (or perhaps slightly cleaner ex-dopers who can't win anymore or clean riders who are mugs because they'll never win.)
I know there are a few people on this forum who do fit this 'you have to be doped to win' bill, indeed some of them even seem to be trying to bring the same accusations to bear on Laura Trott etc. so maybe they do suspect Pinot as well, but I have been somewhat relieved to find they are in a decided minority, and was at a bit of a loss as to why so many people seemed to take Brad's words so personally.
I guess this has cleared that up, so thank you.
- Jul 21, 2012
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- Feb 20, 2010
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Inviting comparisons to US Postal is still a dangerous game with the various goings-on since May 2010. If they had drawn more attention to how the template had been used for longer than that they might have got more of a pass on it (not that Miguel Indurain, the previous benefactor of such tactics, was clean of course). How does a team that prides itself on its attention to detail not spot that inviting comparisons to US Postal and then riding like them might not have been the smartest thing to do while the biggest doping investigation in the history of the sport is going on into that very team? Even if Sky are clean, it makes it very difficult for the jaded cycling fan that has seen 20 years of false dawns to accept.
And then, the rider at the centre of it considers that cynics are all people who will never achieve anything in their lives, despite the fact that all but the most loyal fans and newcomers to the sport have had a healthy level of cynicism imbued upon them by several years of being lied to - not necessarily Clinic conspiracy theorist cynicism, but simply the level of "I hope they're clean but you can never be sure, especially when they dominate a race like that" - he's basically taking a pot shot at most of the sport's loyal fans. Maybe he's okay with that, after all, he can be marketed to that audience of brand new fans who've only been sold on cycling since Britons started winning regularly at it, but it doesn't sit well with people who've been supporting the sport - and him - since he was a youthful track specialist who couldn't keep up with the grupetto. Which increases antipathy towards him for his attitude, and to his team for their boring riding which keeps him at the centre of attention.
The Postal comparisons were made, by Sky. They were then made, by cynical fans who knew Postal were more than likely dirty and attributed the same characteristics to Sky.
And then, the rider at the centre of it considers that cynics are all people who will never achieve anything in their lives, despite the fact that all but the most loyal fans and newcomers to the sport have had a healthy level of cynicism imbued upon them by several years of being lied to - not necessarily Clinic conspiracy theorist cynicism, but simply the level of "I hope they're clean but you can never be sure, especially when they dominate a race like that" - he's basically taking a pot shot at most of the sport's loyal fans. Maybe he's okay with that, after all, he can be marketed to that audience of brand new fans who've only been sold on cycling since Britons started winning regularly at it, but it doesn't sit well with people who've been supporting the sport - and him - since he was a youthful track specialist who couldn't keep up with the grupetto. Which increases antipathy towards him for his attitude, and to his team for their boring riding which keeps him at the centre of attention.
The Postal comparisons were made, by Sky. They were then made, by cynical fans who knew Postal were more than likely dirty and attributed the same characteristics to Sky.
- Sep 26, 2009
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More fools
Welcoming Wiggo Warrior and Sunday Rider....Sky keep trotting out the sockpuppets. Yawn.
Welcoming Wiggo Warrior and Sunday Rider....Sky keep trotting out the sockpuppets. Yawn.
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