The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridiculous they can get

[Benotti69]

Re:

Yeah all true. But...Why did Sky wait so long to dope Froome, they were looking to offload him. Why did Wiggins only manage one year. Many many questions.

Froome was bottom of their chart for performance.

see here

http://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2011/04/DBgraphhires1.jpg

They probably waited to see what he could do before spending money on doping. He may have got microdosed and still showed no performance rise. His wife claims (in article to Kimmage)she took over his training and nutrition. His Mother in law is a body builder, so this could also explain lots. Then we have Varjas story of delivering motors to Monaco. Join the dots.

Wiggins realised Froome was going to blow him away in every GT. Sky backed Froome for TdFs. He also lost his nerve, see Giro 2013.

 

[macbindle]

You are forgetting that Froome wasn't selected for the Vuelta team in 2011. He got a place because someone else withdrew.

By the way, Froome isn't the only pro who lives in Monoco. The dots might lead elsewhere.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

You are forgetting that Froome wasn't selected for the Vuelta team in 2011. He got a place because someone else withdrew.

By the way, Froome isn't the only pro who lives in Monoco. The dots might lead elsewhere.

Imagine Froome can beat other pros on motors who took delivery of motors, just imagine that, i think i hear the Disney tune.........

 

[macbindle]

Re: Re:

You are forgetting that Froome wasn't selected for the Vuelta team in 2011. He got a place because someone else withdrew.

By the way, Froome isn't the only pro who lives in Monoco. The dots might lead elsewhere.

Imagine Froome can beat other pros on motors who took delivery of motors, just imagine that, i think i hear the Disney tune.........

Matthew Goss, Simon Gerrans, Dave Tanner, Mark Renshaw, Theo Bos, Richie Porte, Calvin Watson,Axel Merckx, Gert Steegmans, Tom Boonen, Philippe Gilbert, Stefan Everts, Justine Hénin, Thierry Boutsen,Tim Wellens, Geraint Thomas, Lizzie A, Vino, Pozzato

...all direct competitors of Froome, you imply.

:lol:

Look, I'll leave you to it. There really is nothing to be
gained from you and I interacting apart from a sore head for me.

Cheers.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

You are forgetting that Froome wasn't selected for the Vuelta team in 2011. He got a place because someone else withdrew.

By the way, Froome isn't the only pro who lives in Monoco. The dots might lead elsewhere.

Imagine Froome can beat other pros on motors who took delivery of motors, just imagine that, i think i hear the Disney tune.........

Matthew Goss, Simon Gerrans, Dave Tanner, Mark Renshaw, Theo Bos, Richie Porte, Calvin Watson,Axel Merckx, Gert Steegmans, Tom Boonen, Philippe Gilbert, Stefan Everts, Justine Hénin, Thierry Boutsen,Tim Wellens, Geraint Thomas, Lizzie A, Vino, Pozzato

...all direct competitors of Froome, you imply.

:lol:

Look, I'll leave you to it. There really is nothing to be
gained from you and I interacting apart from a sore head for me.

Cheers.

According to Sky, all those guys were way ahead of Froome in talent. But then what do Sky know........ I bet Justine Henin was better on a bike than pre 2011 Froome.

 

[veganrob]

Re: Re:

I agree with most but not all of that. I'm just slightly curious as to why you have posted it rather than ponder the specific questions I asked...or not answer at all.

Why don't you get around to posting those studies Merckx Index requested before being all holier-than-thou about answering questions?

Why? Because searching for studies, and re-reading them, is a time-consuming business. Not something I can do at a click of your fingers, especially since I am posting on a phone whilst eating my dinner.

The questions I asked can be answered quite quickly with either a theory, or an acknowledgement that it remains a mystery.

I hope that helps.

You will find somewhere in 'The Clinic' posts that detail to some extent the defence put forward by Petacchi and Ullisi - A few who post in The Clinic will be able to find the posts.

We don't care about Petacchi or Ullisi. Tell us about Froome. Don't make *** up

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

searching for studies, and re-reading them, is a time-consuming business. Not something I can do at a click of your fingers, especially since I am posting on a phone whilst eating my dinner.

Mac, some well-intentioned advice: stay off this forum while eating. Your stomach deserves more respect than that. There are very few things in life—and certainly this forum is not one of them—that are so important that they should or need to be attended to while eating. Make time for meals and just eat. Period.

You will find somewhere in 'The Clinic' posts that detail to some extent the defence put forward by Petacchi and Ullisi - A few who post in The Clinic will be able to find the posts.

Petacchi raised all the usual issues that athletes over the salbutamol threshold try, but as was noted in the CAS decision, he provided no evidence to support any of them. That’s why there was no discussion of any of them in the decision, other than to mention that they were raised. Very clearly nothing remotely close to 1500 pages.

Ulissi’s decision was never published, as it wasn’t required by his federation, and like most athletes, he was too chicken-sh!t to let the fans know the details of his case.

Sundby’s case has been discussed at length in the salbutamol thread. His main defense was that he should be allowed to use a nebulizer on his doctor’s recommendation, and that the relationship between amount inhaled and urine concentration is very different in that case from that of the inhaler. Not relevant to Froome (unless he switches his story that he didn't take too much by accident), and again, didn’t take that many pages to document.

Froome’s case, as a guess, is going to come down to a claim that urine levels can be much higher if a sample is given within one hour of taking the maximum allowed. Again, that argument doesn’t require anything close to 1500 pages. There isn’t any single argument I can imagine that would require anything like that amount; even if he tried every argument ever tried in a salbutamol case, that would be excessive. But I’m guessing Lappartient was exaggerating when he said 1500 pages. Unless a very large fraction of them are cover letters, administrative details, and other fluff not directly related to the science.

Floyd's case was the most complex I think I can recall--unlike Froome's case, in Floyd's there were serious questions about lab procedures and the validity of measurements--and how many pages was that? Of course the final decision is going to be stream-lined compared to all the supporting documents, but still.

The other issue with Landis is that he claims he was doped to the gills.... just not with testosterone (what he was positive for, for the post 2012 crowd)

 

[Parker]

Re: Re:

The other issue with Landis is that he claims he was doped to the gills.... just not with testosterone (what he was positive for, for the post 2012 crowd)

Given that he said under oath that he hadn't taken testosterone, he's pretty much committed to that story (for the Landis is a hero crowd).

 

[wirral]

Re: Re:

The other issue with Landis is that he claims he was doped to the gills.... just not with testosterone (what he was positive for, for the post 2012 crowd)

Given that he said under oath that he hadn't taken testosterone, he's pretty much committed to that story (for the Landis is a hero crowd).

What does the bolded bit mean? Is it deliberately wrong syntax for the in-crowd like "My Bad"?

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

The other issue with Landis is that he claims he was doped to the gills.... just not with testosterone (what he was positive for, for the post 2012 crowd)

Given that he said under oath that he hadn't taken testosterone, he's pretty much committed to that story (for the Landis is a hero crowd).

Nobody thinks Landis is a hero. They do think that lifting the lid on Armstrong and USPS was admirable, considering the initial backlash he received for it. Same with Hamilton.

 

[macbindle]

But the main point of Parker's post still stands.

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

But the main point of Parker's post still stands.

Why wouldn't it? Of course Landis is committed to his comments that he didn't use testosterone during the 2006 TDF.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

But the main point of Parker's post still stands.

Why wouldn't it? Of course Landis is committed to his comments that he didn't use testosterone during the 2006 TDF.

Correct.

The pulse behind Landis’s fight was that he wasn’t using testosterone prior to that stage. And that the UCI & the lab had conspired in someway to produce the positive. With the emotion taken out of the hearing there certainly were some very strange and odd occurrences to not only reach the positive but in the following testimony. Now that Verbruggen has taken the secret to his grave probably the only two remaining people who truly know what happened are McQuaid and the lab technician who changed her testimony during the hearing after crying an awful lot and given a recess by the panel. Some odd signature thrown in for good measure made for a very strange case. If reasonable doubt was the bar for conviction I don’t think USADA would have made the case, nor the UCI or WADA.

 

[JosephK]

Re: The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridic

Prediction: After Froome wins the 2018 TDF, his lawyers succeed in dragging out the AAF case past the start of the Vuelta, which Froome enters and wins (after securing various TUEs to counter a flare-up of bilharzia, kidney failure, pneumonia, and mad-cow disease).

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridic

Prediction: After Froome wins the 2018 TDF, his lawyers succeed in dragging out the AAF case past the start of the Vuelta, which Froome enters and wins (after securing various TUEs to counter a flare-up of bilharzia, kidney failure, pneumonia, and mad-cow disease).

10000000% sure this wont happen.
Mrs Froome(2nd kid on the way) needs Mr. Froomes support after his 5th TdF win.

 

[macbindle]

I'm sure they can probably stretch to affording a nanny

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re: Re:

But the main point of Parker's post still stands.

Why wouldn't it? Of course Landis is committed to his comments that he didn't use testosterone during the 2006 TDF.

Correct.

The pulse behind Landis’s fight was that he wasn’t using testosterone prior to that stage. And that the UCI & the lab had conspired in someway to produce the positive. With the emotion taken out of the hearing there certainly were some very strange and odd occurrences to not only reach the positive but in the following testimony. Now that Verbruggen has taken the secret to his grave probably the only two remaining people who truly know what happened are McQuaid and the lab technician who changed her testimony during the hearing after crying an awful lot and given a recess by the panel. Some odd signature thrown in for good measure made for a very strange case. If reasonable doubt was the bar for conviction I don’t think USADA would have made the case, nor the UCI or WADA.

And this is why I have always tended to believe it wasn't a conspiracy theory...because as is well documented, Landis detailed the extent of his doping, and had no real reason to lie about whether he took Test or not. Regardless, his ride versus washing machine legs' ride in the Giro is a difference in style that clearly exemplifies why there is little interest in watching the Sky fraud, outside of island dwellers, who are just regurgitated versions of Lance supporters form the days of old. That and the doping aside, Lance had 100x the style.

 

[macbindle]

Yep. Froome is still really hard to watch.

Really he should be banned on the basis of his style. Never mind about the drugs.

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

I'm sure they can probably stretch to affording a nanny

I'm sure they can, but maybe he wants to be around to support his wife and for the birth of his kid. Ya know, like any decent husband/dad would

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

Yep. Froome is still really hard to watch.

Really he should be banned on the basis of his style. Never mind about the drugs.

Granted, he's not the prettiest to watch....but there are worse sights in the peloton....Pozzovivo on a TT bike and Fabio Aru climbing out of the saddle are 2 that immediately spring to mind...

At least Froome can justify his ugliness with the success it's bought him

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Yep. Froome is still really hard to watch.

Really he should be banned on the basis of his style. Never mind about the drugs.

Granted, he's not the prettiest to watch....but there are worse sights in the peloton....Pozzovivo on a TT bike and Fabio Aru climbing out of the saddle are 2 that immediately spring to mind...

At least Froome can justify his ugliness with the success it's bought him

I miss he joys of smooth pedalling and motionless body. Give me a Klöden or an Ullrich any day.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re: Re:

Yep. Froome is still really hard to watch.

Really he should be banned on the basis of his style. Never mind about the drugs.

Granted, he's not the prettiest to watch....but there are worse sights in the peloton....Pozzovivo on a TT bike and Fabio Aru climbing out of the saddle are 2 that immediately spring to mind...

At least Froome can justify his ugliness with the success it's bought him

Voeckler sex face comes to mind. though that is a memory of the past now...

And doping brought him the success, not the horror show on the bike.

 

[macbindle]

Aru's cumface is worse. One of perpetual disappointment

 

[Alpe73]

Re: Re:

Yep. Froome is still really hard to watch.

Really he should be banned on the basis of his style. Never mind about the drugs.

Granted, he's not the prettiest to watch....but there are worse sights in the peloton....Pozzovivo on a TT bike and Fabio Aru climbing out of the saddle are 2 that immediately spring to mind...

At least Froome can justify his ugliness with the success it's bought him

I miss he joys of smooth pedalling and motionless body. Give me a Klöden or an Ullrich any day.

A Jay Buhner home run ... was a beautiful thing.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Yep. Froome is still really hard to watch.

Really he should be banned on the basis of his style. Never mind about the drugs.

Granted, he's not the prettiest to watch....but there are worse sights in the peloton....Pozzovivo on a TT bike and Fabio Aru climbing out of the saddle are 2 that immediately spring to mind...

At least Froome can justify his ugliness with the success it's bought him

I miss he joys of smooth pedalling and motionless body. Give me a Klöden or an Ullrich any day.

VDB at Bartoli at their peak, poetry in motion.