The Sports Illustrated Article

[runninboy]

Exactly. It's amazing how many "well if they found all that in the raid, then why hasn't Popo been suspended" posts there are on here already.

I can see the UCI saying something along the lines of "we were advised not to do anything that might compromise the larger investigation as their authority supercede's any internal controls of sport. Rest assured we will take swift and appropriate action once any criminal proceedings have been concluded. We reiterate that we were on top of these developments long ago, but had to step aside, temporarily, to allow other agencies to pursue neccessary legal recourse.
However just because we took appropriate action to maintain confidentiality in the ongoing investigation should in no way be construed as being less than diligent in our quest to clean the sport of its toxic elements"

If they issue such a statement i want to be paid...

 

[Cobblestoned]

Typical macho posturing. He's "so not worried", he's probably celebrating *** edited by mod ***

It is great to hate Lance and stomp on him for the whole day, isn't it. You can only win and built up your (internet) ego or get highly accepted even if you have nothing to deliver.
A win-win situation.
Congrats. You are a true hero who has done an enormous amount for mankind !
Member of a pack of hyenas waiting in great distance for the old brave lion to die and then eat him. Real braveness.

What would you do without Lance, movieboy ? You were totally lost in movies and no one would listen to you. So praise him.
As I once said: If Lance wasn't there he should be invented.
Not for the fanboys or cycling, but for the haters to survive.

The internet-haters - a special breed I study for many years now.
And I found out that all these proud Armstronghaters don't really differ the German Ullrichhaters.
Haters need victims to exist and survive. Targets are exchangeable.

 

[sniper]

It is great to hate Lance and stomp on him for the whole day, isn't it. You can only win and built up your (internet) ego or get highly accepted even if you have nothing to deliver.
A win-win situation.
Congrats. You are a true hero who has done an enormous amount for mankind !
Member of a pack of hyenas waiting in great distance for the old brave lion to die and then eat him. Real braveness.

What would you do without Lance, movieboy ? You were totally lost in movies and no one would listen to you. So praise him.
As I once said: If Lance wasn't there he should be invented.
Not for the fanboys or cycling, but for the haters to survive.

The internet-haters - a special breed I study for many years now.
And I found out that all these proud Armstronghaters don't really differ the German Ullrichhaters.
Haters need victims to exist and survive. Targets are exchangeable.

Perhaps you should exercise some modesty.
The SI article has proven several of your recent posts to be either wrong or naive (or both).

 

[runninboy]

I think people would not delight in this so much without people who constantly ridiculed LA detractors.
The more we caught a glimpse into the likely scenario the nastier the debate became.
So yes i would imagine after being ridiculed for years some people will take their moment to say they were right.
would you expect anything less?

 

[Big Doopie]

The internet-haters - a special breed I study for many years now...

i don't deny my hate for someone like armstrong. because, yes, i hate injustice.

so call us what you like.

however, another name for us would be justice lovers.

not such a bad thing really.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Public Opinion

Lance isn't "worried on any level" about the S.I. article.
What are your thoughts on this?
Could it be that he knows so much about how the business of the UCI and how it "handles" things that the UCI, McQuaid & even Verbruggen are at risk if L.A. goes down?

I'm repeating myself, but this kind of tearing down is what the media does after they've made money building up a myth. Bad press won't land you in jail or lose your savings. If anything, it's as good for sponsorship/appearance revenue as the ride up.

Team Pharmstrong will be "not worried" all the way. No matter what.

It would be good if Hein and Pat were prosecuted for something, but I have my doubts. If the IOC is dragged in, then we might see some leadership changes at the UCI. AFAICT, it will probably be more of the same. It's the IOC we're talking about after all.

 

[BotanyBay]

But that was a question at the outset, wasn't it? If he acquired, trafficked and used abroad with no link to the US, it wouldn't be FDA jurisdiction? Either way, it's nice to know there's no problem there.

And this is what FDA investigators explore and discover.

 

[Cobblestoned]

i don't deny my hate for someone like armstrong. because, yes, i hate injustice.

so call us what you like.

however, another name for us would be justice lovers.

not such a bad thing really.

Everyone knows that this is not true reason and not the mission.
So many good people in one place - no one really believes that.
It's just trendy and easiest way to hate Lance and have fun.

He who is free from guilt may throw the first stone. I love haters - they are sooo good and full of justice when it comes to Lance.

One of the real reasons is that you all were bored and envious for 7 years in a row and all the pressure comes out now.

Even a relative nice guy like Ullrich had uncountable haters in German forums.
How can you explain that then ?
As I said: names are interchangeable.
A special obsessed breed I will never understand or accept, like I do it with the moderate guys.
Some people talk like Lance stole their life or bike, and did their wife or girlfriend. I could understand these peoples hate.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I'm repeating myself, but this kind of tearing down is what the media does after they've made money building up a myth. Bad press won't land you in jail or lose your savings. If anything, it's as good for sponsorship/appearance revenue as the ride up.

Team Pharmstrong will be "not worried" all the way. No matter what.

It would be good if Hein and Pat were prosecuted for something, but I have my doubts. If the IOC is dragged in, then we might see some leadership changes at the UCI. AFAICT, it will probably be more of the same. It's the IOC we're talking about after all.

Tearing down by the media??

The major media to profit were cycling publications - the MSM usually only covered LA right after his TdF win with a nice fluff piece, thats reporting not journalism.

If you think LA's woe's are good for publicity check and see how many stick by him with the indictment - which should give LA plenty of coverage.

True that "Bad press won't land you in jail or lose your savings" - but if your a sportstar, landing in jail (or even a conviction) will earn bad press and put a dent in your savings.

 

[ultimobici]

It is great to hate Lance and stomp on him for the whole day, isn't it. You can only win and built up your (internet) ego or get highly accepted even if you have nothing to deliver.
A win-win situation.
Congrats. You are a true hero who has done an enormous amount for mankind !
Member of a pack of hyenas waiting in great distance for the old brave lion to die and then eat him. Real braveness.

What would you do without Lance, movieboy ? You were totally lost in movies and no one would listen to you. So praise him.
As I once said: If Lance wasn't there he should be invented.
Not for the fanboys or cycling, but for the haters to survive.

The internet-haters - a special breed I study for many years now.
And I found out that all these proud Armstronghaters don't really differ the German Ullrichhaters.
Haters need victims to exist and survive. Targets are exchangeable.

Difference is Ullrich has behaved with a measure of dignity and has not really insulted the intelligence of cycling fans by declaring that he was pure as driven snow. While he hasn't admitted to doping, his comment "Whoever still can't put one and one together about what happened in cycling is beyond my help." is very telling but does not attempt to con me into thinking he was clean.

I don't hate anyone of them, Hamilton, Landis, Armstrong, Millar, Mancebo, Heras....etc. i just wish they'd credit me and many others like me with the wit to see that the show was rotten and still is to a degree. I'm not blind, stupid nor deaf.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Perhaps you should exercise some modesty.
The SI article has proven several of your recent posts to be either wrong or naive (or both).

SI is a bikini magazine not to take serious. Don't you remember that. lol

Examples ?

If this was the case, I had something in common with the big hatin predictors.
If this was the case I would do exactely what they did when they faild over and over again:
I don't care and just go on.
No, not really. If i am wrong I will stand to that and accept the correction. That differs me and many other posters from these overfocused haters.
No one is free from faults - except the usual suspects and holy justicelovers of course.

 

[BotanyBay]

Cobblestoned. When you got to bed at night, you must be totally exhausted from all of this conflict you seem determined to stir. I hope you don't have children.

 

[mwbyrd]

I agree with the bolded bit. I think the point is obvious. Obvious to all, that is, whose agenda isn't hatred of Armstrong. (Which of course excludes most of the active participants in this forum.)

You may not like Armstrong. You may have good reason for not liking him. But he played the same game his competitors played, and raced the same races, and if they could have beaten him they would have. Did he pay off the UCI? Most likely. But if they were taking bribes from Armstrong, they wouldn't stop with him. If they were in the bribe taking business, you can bet they had more than one customer.

Well Said.

And Taylor Phinney is looking like a Genius right about now.

Anyone Remember Chris Horner talking about the Postal/Discovery teams ripping the peloton apart and still being there at the end of stages. I guess he made a deal with the devil at some point. Bummer because he's one of my favorites.

Feel bad for the U23 Trek guy that signed with RadioShack. Guess we know why it was for one year...

 

[Hugh Januss]

SI is a bikini magazine not to take serious. Don't you remember that. lol

Examples ?

If this was the case, I had something in common with the big hatin predictors.
If this was the case I would do exactely what they did when they faild over and over again:
I don't care and just go on.
No, not really. If i am wrong I will stand to that and accept the correction. That differs me and many other posters from these overfocused haters.
No one is free from faults - except the usual suspects and holy justicelovers of course.

I can't help but observe that you are really an idiot.
Not an attack.........merely an observation. Have a nice day!

 

[Benotti69]

Cobblestoned. When you got to bed at night, you must be totally exhausted from all of this conflict you seem determined to stir. I hope you don't have children.

Cobbles is one of the funniest posters on here and i cant figure if he is some 13 year old kid or that google translator makes a mess of his postings, but his ramblings certainly are fun.

anyone see the video of a german kid throwing a tantrum at his computer, check it out on youtube, funniest and saddest thing at the same time. makes me think of cobbles

 

[Wallace]

It is great to hate Lance and stomp on him for the whole day, isn't it. You can only win and built up your (internet) ego or get highly accepted even if you have nothing to deliver.
A win-win situation.
Congrats. You are a true hero who has done an enormous amount for mankind !
Member of a pack of hyenas waiting in great distance for the old brave lion to die and then eat him. Real braveness.

What would you do without Lance, movieboy ? You were totally lost in movies and no one would listen to you. So praise him.
As I once said: If Lance wasn't there he should be invented.
Not for the fanboys or cycling, but for the haters to survive.

The internet-haters - a special breed I study for many years now.
And I found out that all these proud Armstronghaters don't really differ the German Ullrichhaters.
Haters need victims to exist and survive. Targets are exchangeable.

I am totally down with what you're saying--except you don't go nearly far enough. What is it with all these obsessives? Have you ever noticed how much people talk about their cats on cat forums? What is wrong with those people? And when you go on race car forums, jesus god those people do nothing but talk about race cars. It's just so revealing that when you go to the doping threads on a bike racing website, all the people talk about there is doping. They must be really obsessed. They all just need to get lives, because I'm sure what they post there is a total measure of everything that they think and do.

 

[Beech Mtn]

As of now, Lance is still not included on the official list of donors to the Queensland floods. It doesn't look like he is on the list of donations received or of donations committed.

Given what the Velonews articlesaid this morning, they might be wise to ask for their cash ASAP.

As part of the deal involving a hefty appearance fee paid to Armstrong for participating in the TDU, the RadioShack team leader has been holding daily press conferences to discuss the race, Australia and his own plans for the future

Please let there continue to be daily press conferences.

 

[BikeCentric]

Everyone knows that this is not true reason and not the mission.
So many good people in one place - no one really believes that.
It's just trendy and easiest way to hate Lance and have fun.

He who is free from guilt may throw the first stone. I love haters - they are sooo good and full of justice when it comes to Lance.

One of the real reasons is that you all were bored and envious for 7 years in a row and all the pressure comes out now.

Even a relative nice guy like Ullrich had uncountable haters in German forums.
How can you explain that then ?
As I said: names are interchangeable.
A special obsessed breed I will never understand or accept, like I do it with the moderate guys.
Some people talk like Lance stole their life or bike, and did their wife or girlfriend. I could understand these peoples hate.

LOL, this "stoned" guy is really funny! I can't believe the good old classic "jealous bitter haters" line is still being trotted out but hey, I guess when you run out of excuses it's best to fall back on the tried and true. Yeah, I'll bet a lot of people are seriously jealous and wish they were getting shown "attention" by a Federal investigator who's got a Grand Jury on your a$$. I think my first grade teacher called that "negative attention" as I recall.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Npr

The SI story is being retold on NPR this morning. Ouch!

 

[Skandar Akbar]

I can't help but observe that you are really an idiot.
Not an attack.........merely an observation. Have a nice day!

That's not very nice. I suggest all of the foaming at the mouth going on in here over the potential fall of a great American hero be kept in check. Let's see how all of this plays out in reaal life. The media cannot be trusted. They are trying to tear down Sarah Palin too with lies.

 

[Barrus]

I'll leave this post by Francois here as well and will reiterate the statement that at the moment it is best not to annoy the moderators

Today isn't the day to test the patience of moderators. If we feel people are here purely to disrupt the thread, they won't find much sympathy. I don't care one bit what opinion they have, it is attitude that will count.

Have an opinion, share it. Come here to get a rise out of folk on the other side of the coin, you will miss some exciting posting days.

The day started off calm and people were sharing opinions and reacting to the various angles that the SI article threw up.

If folk can't keep it that way, we will carry on with those that can.

 

[Kennf1]

i haven't finished the full article yet but that bit, taunting novi, is not as astounding to me as to you. armstrong's utter arrogance and obnoxiousness have been the leading cause for my dislike of him.

i've long grown to expect from him any acts of defiance even if poorly advised.

otoh, if this arrogance accelerated his downfall, so much the better !!!

I'm reminded of that post race episode early last year when a member of the crowd yelled "doper!", and Lance climbed onto the barricade and yelled back "Say that to my face!", to the delight of the crowd. Unfortunately, the guy snuck away.

Wonder how that scene might play out now?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Even from here I can see that you didn't manage to clean all the egg off your face.

I must admit I was thinking on the same lines as you - I just wasn't stupid enough to post it on an internet forum read by millions!

I guess American multi-colored fish wrap can be just as pertinant as the French model. I really didn't think SI had the couilles to print what they have - even if it is the "light" version.

Yes French Fry I am trying to find some more soap.

I will attempt to explain. I stand by my post at that time because --------------------
I had expected this story to hit hard considering RR had basically said so. I was receiving a little bit of information from someone else via email that was backing up the upcoming article. Based on that information I had taken the impending article as a fact (I should have never done that) and had given this information to a local media organization. They had (sort of) ran with what I gave them and were hinting that big news was on the way regarding Armstrong.

When it appeared that the story had been silenced or clipped. I had to go to that media organization and tell them my source may be wrong etc.

So see the egg on my face worked both ways because the scoop guys had it right and I called them out as being wrong. And the local media guys got angry with me when I eventually had part of the story.

My bad and I apologize to the “scoop guys” for being a Thurds Fergusson.

To the comment ----American multi colored fish wrap being just the same as the French multi colored fish wrap……I agree….after all we have to thank the French for many things!

 

[jraama]

HemAssist...

Regarding the use of HemAssist…

1. Even though Baxter may have discontinued development of this product in the late 90s, as suggested in the article, drug supplies from cancelled programs often (almost always) hang around for several years.
2. If studies (clinical, stability or otherwise) were ongoing at the time development was suspended (usually programs are suspended, and remain suspended for a year or more before being fully terminated), often times companies will complete the studies as filed with the FDA in hopes that the drug can be repurposed for another indication, or that another company will show interest in the product and offer to buy it (out-licensing). Please do not interpret this to mean Baxter was exploring its potential as a PED. That would not happen.
3. Some have used the phrase “controlled drug” when discussing HemAssist. In the US, “controlled drug” denotes a drug with habit forming potential, and therefore is very tightly regulated. This is not the case for HemAssist. HemAssist would have been an investigational drug, which is still regulated, but not at the same level as a “controlled drug”.
4. That being said, it is illegal to sell an investigational drug. When drugs are used in clinical trials, they must be provide free of charge to the patients. I strongly believe that if LA used this drug, it was almost assuredly provided by either a clinical site, or from a doctor participating in the clinical studies. I find it impossible to believe Baxter would have had any part of LA acquiring this drug. The risk to reward profile does not make sense for that to happen.

 

[runninboy]

Regarding the use of HemAssist…

1. Even though Baxter may have discontinued development of this product in the late 90s, as suggested in the article, drug supplies from cancelled programs often (almost always) hang around for several years.
2. If studies (clinical, stability or otherwise) were ongoing at the time development was suspended (usually programs are suspended, and remain suspended for a year or more before being fully terminated), often times companies will complete the studies as filed with the FDA in hopes that the drug can be repurposed for another indication, or that another company will show interest in the product and offer to buy it (out-licensing). Please do not interpret this to mean Baxter was exploring its potential as a PED. That would not happen.
3. Some have used the phrase “controlled drug” when discussing HemAssist. In the US, “controlled drug” denotes a drug with habit forming potential, and therefore is very tightly regulated. This is not the case for HemAssist. HemAssist would have been an investigational drug, which is still regulated, but not at the same level as a “controlled drug”.
4. That being said, it is illegal to sell an investigational drug. When drugs are used in clinical trials, they must be provide free of charge to the patients. I strongly believe that if LA used this drug, it was almost assuredly provided by either a clinical site, or from a doctor participating in the clinical studies. I find it impossible to believe Baxter would have had any part of LA acquiring this drug. The risk to reward profile does not make sense for that to happen.

good points
However when i talked about controlled drug i was not speaking in the technical sense, only that the drug was not made available to the general public and could only be used legally in the method for which it was being tested at that time. If Lance used it outside the clinical trial that is very serious and raises many issues.
I also did not mean to imply that Baxter developed the drug as a PED, what i meant was sometimes drugs have benefits beyond their application. Just because a drug fails in trials does not mean that it did not perform. That is what posters seemed to be implying, that since it did not prove viable for its intended purpose that it would be useless as a PED.
And of course i doubt anyone at a high level provided said drug with LA in mind. However the chain of control broke down at some point somewhere somehow, if the story is to be believed. Anywhere along the way has serious implications for the FDA.Hence the investigation carries complications far beyond someone cheating in a bike race