"The stars of the Tour 2008 must tremble"

[poupou]

You misunderstood. Vayer calculates figures of climbing power on major mountain passes and frequently compares the current ones to the ones in the past all the way down to the late 80s. When the 50% blood level limit was introduced, the power levels of pro riders fell through the floor. The current levels are just as high as they've ever been since that landmark but they can't hold a candle to the values registered before said landmark.



Every time a rider publishes readings from his power meter (most recent one to do so was Chris Sorensen), Vayer compares it to his own calculations of the rider's performance for said stage. It's always extremely close. The difference is negligible. The numbers are solid and can be trusted.

Maybe this could be helpfull:

 

[HL2037]

Soap?! .

 

[BroDeal]

Yet I still believe the peloton is cleaner, I'm not saying clean.

There's also such a thing as human evolution which means the new generation will ALWAYS be stronger than the old one. With or without the juice.
My point is, you can't deduct from comparing power output of 1970/80/90/00 with now if riders are doping or not.

Uh...human evolution takes place on a slightly longer time scale than a few decades.

 

[issoisso]

Maybe this could be helpfull:

Precisely

Just a few small corrections:
- The 50% limit and the Festina scandal were both in 98.
- Puerto was in 2006

Uh...human evolution takes place on a slightly longer time scale than a few decades.

And that's putting it very very mildly indeed. Sorry Dekker_Tiffosi, but the evolution argument is just a no-no

 

[poupou]

Soap?! .

Yes soap to destroy EPO inside urine... don't drink or inject it, just drop it in your ****.

 

[issoisso]

Yes soap to destroy EPO inside urine... don't drink or inject it, just drop it in your ****.

There's a red powder whose name I don't know that's commonly used for that effect.

One of the major flags towards EPO use is precisely when samples have no EPO whatsoever in them. Any sample is expected to have the natural EPO produced by your body, but a large number suspiciously have nothing at all. The red powder destroys them.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Yet, there has been loads of developments besides doping in the peloton last decades.
Huge changes... far better material, far superior training methods (SRM for one), lesser racedays during the season, specialisation etc...

 

[issoisso]

Yet, there has been loads of developments besides doping in the peloton last decades.
Huge changes... far better material, far superior training methods (SRM for one), lesser racedays during the season, specialisation etc...

Yes there has, but human evolution doesn't have anything to do with it. Although Fred Grappe's comparison of 30 year old bikes with current ones is that equipment is worth 10 watts at the very most. And probably less over longer distances, as he also concluded the current bikes are far less comfortable.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

50% limit was introduced for Paris-Nice in 1997!

3 of the 20 riders tested failed.

 

[issoisso]

50% limit was introduced for Paris-Nice in 1997!

3 of the 20 riders tested failed.

You absolutely sure? I checked a couple books I have here (Story of the Tour by Torelli and Pantani's biography by Rendell) before posting that and both list the 98 season as the start of the 50% "health limit"

 

[HL2037]

Yes soap to destroy EPO inside urine... don't drink or inject it, just drop it in your ****.

Thank you! For a minute i imagined a poor skinny bikerider shooting up with soap in the tour bus toilet. And thought to myself: "Doping must be stopped!"

 

[BroDeal]

You absolutely sure? I checked a couple books I have here (Story of the Tour by Torelli and Pantani's biography by Rendell) before posting that and both list the 98 season as the start of the 50% "health limit"

It was 1997. It was also a coincidence that Indurain retired as soon as the new rule was being discussed.

 

[issoisso]

It was 1997. It was also a coincidence that Indurain retired as soon as the new rule was being discussed.

Thanks for clearing that up

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You absolutely sure? I checked a couple books I have here (Story of the Tour by Torelli and Pantani's biography by Rendell) before posting that and both list the 98 season as the start of the 50% "health limit"

Afraid so - Cyclingnews article 11th March 1997.

"Three riders were thrown out of the Paris-Nice race on Monday after failing blood tests, cycling's security and ethics commission said.
It said Frenchman Erwan Mentheour and Italians Mauro Santaronita and Luca Colombo were not allowed to start Monday's second stage and had their licences suspended for 15 days."

 

[pmcg76]

It was 1997. It was also a coincidence that Indurain retired as soon as the new rule was being discussed.

Now that is stretching the tenous link to the extreme. Why was Indurain the only rider to quit when everyone was doing exactly the same thing. I think 'Big Mig' knew he was on the downhill slope, the Tour defeat really hurt and he lacked the motivation to carry on, hell he didnt even finish the Vuelta.

 

[BroDeal]

Now that is stretching the tenous link to the extreme. Why was Indurain the only rider to quit when everyone was doing exactly the same thing. I think 'Big Mig' knew he was on the downhill slope, the Tour defeat really hurt and he lacked the motivation to carry on, hell he didnt even finish the Vuelta.

The 50% limit was the big push that threatening to accelerate him down the hill.

It is not like it is normal to go from unbeatable one year (1995) to a chump who cannot even finish a GT the next (1996).

 

[issoisso]

The 50% limit was the big push that threatening to accelerate him down the hill.

It is not like it is normal to go from unbeatable one year (1995) to a chump who cannot even finish a GT the next (1996).

He did finish, though.

What he didn't finish was the Vuelta. As his team doctor put it, his bronchitis at the Vuelta meant he was essentially "breathing through a straw"

 

[pmcg76]

The 50% limit was the big push that threatening to accelerate him down the hill.

It is not like it is normal to go from unbeatable one year (1995) to a chump who cannot even finish a GT the next (1996).

The 50% limit was only introduced in 97 after he retired, he actually finished the 96 Tour albeit in 12th place. His performances dropped quite a bit but it wasnt due to any new limits. I consider 96-98 as the absolute peak of EPO usage so maybe a lot more guys were juiced up to the max that year.

 

[BroDeal]

The 50% limit was only introduced in 97 after he retired,

The new rule was being talked about before he retired. It was not formally agreed to until a few weeks after he retired, but everyone knew it was coming.

I have always thought it was very convenient time for a product of Dr. Conconi to retire.

 

[pmcg76]

The new rule was being talked about before he retired. It was not formally agreed to until a few weeks after he retired, but everyone knew it was coming.

I have always thought it was very convenient time for a product of Dr. Conconi to retire.

Fine but why just Indurain, why not Riis who was boosting far more than most or any other Conconi, Ferrari, Cecchini pupils. Indurain had won 5 Tours, 2 Giros etc, he had been well beaten in 96. He had nothing left to prove. Maybe the introduction of the 50% was a factor but it would have been a very minor factor I think. It didnt scare anybody else into retirement.

Oh yeah, we are way of topic here now.

 

[issoisso]

Fine but why just Indurain, why not Riis who was boosting far more than most or any other Conconi, Ferrari, Cecchini pupils.

Actually...

(from Dr. Ferrari's files)

Forename Surname - NaturalHcT - RacingHcT

Ivan Gotti - 40.7 - 57.0
Pjotr Ugrumov - 42.8 - 60.0
Bjarne Riis - 41.1 - 56.3

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Jeff D'hondt once said "Riis had a hematocrit of 64 at one time during the Tour!"

As for Big Mig - he was still in talks with Once right up until the end of 1996 - however Once were reluctant to meet his wage demands rumored to be $9m a year!
He announced his retirement on January 4th - the UCI announced the introduction of the "medical control" on the 24th January.

 

[pmcg76]

Actually...

(from Dr. Ferrari's files)

Issoisso

Maybe my eyesight is going but in your avatar, that looks like one of the Schlecks in the Chateau d'Ax get-up but I am guessing it is Toni Rominger with more hair than he finished his career with.

Anyone else think the same

 

[Bala Verde]

Issoisso

Maybe my eyesight is going but in your avatar, that looks like one of the Schlecks in the Chateau d'Ax get-up but I am guessing it is Toni Rominger with more hair than he finished his career with.

Anyone else think the same

OT

I was thinking the same. He looks like a Schleck from the 60s, but he must be seriously dyslectic to write down a signature that looks like T____ R____

 

[issoisso]

pcmg76 is quite right. It's the pseudo-swiss guy. And that is indeed the Chateau d'Ax kit in 1988

And just for laughs, here he is in 1985