"The stars of the Tour 2008 must tremble"

[blaxland]

Not exactly. Evans did not work with Ferrari. That was nothing more then a rumor that had no basis in fact.

Dekker on the other had did work with both Ferrari and Checcini.

and along with menchov will be 2 riders from rabobank....should they be worried??

 

[blaxland]

So, does anyone think the Vuelta will jump on board the retro testing bandwagon?

no its a spanish race...and we know what that means?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Dekker never worked with Ferrari, that's total bs. People often mixed Cecchini up with Ferrari and then get confused. It happens to the best of us.

Btw, I have no more respect for Dekker at all after I saw todays Holland Sport. What a douche. Asking for the contra-expertise was just a way of 'getting paid for 3 more months'. Just here for the money.

That aside, he never worked with Ferrari. No matter how confused RR is and how certain he is of his so called sources.

 

[Race Radio]

Dekker never worked with Ferrari, that's total bs. People often mixed Cecchini up with Ferrari and then get confused. It happens to the best of us.

Btw, I have no more respect for Dekker at all after I saw todays Holland Sport. What a douche. Asking for the contra-expertise was just a way of 'getting paid for 3 more months'. Just here for the money.

That aside, he never worked with Ferrari. No matter how confused RR is and how certain he is of his so called sources.

It appears there are many reporters who disagree with you

Dekker also announced two years ago that he had been collaborating with Italian trainer Michele Ferrari, who has been controversially linked with administering EPO since the 1990s.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...f-Tour-de-France-after-positive-EPO-test.html

Dekker has also collaborated in the past with Italian trainer Michele Ferrari, who has been controversially linked with administering EPO since the 1990s.

http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/news/2052/Dekker-out-of-TDF-after-dope-test

He revealed last year he had been working with Michele Ferrari, the Italian sports doctor and trainer who claimed over a decade ago that the banned blood-booster EPO (erythropoietin) was no more harmful than orange juice.

http://www.bicycle.net/2008/thomas-dekker-signs-with-team-silence-lotto-for-two-years

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Dekker never worked with Ferrari, that's total bs. People often mixed Cecchini up with Ferrari and then get confused. It happens to the best of us.

Btw, I have no more respect for Dekker at all after I saw todays Holland Sport. What a douche. Asking for the contra-expertise was just a way of 'getting paid for 3 more months'. Just here for the money.

That aside, he never worked with Ferrari. No matter how confused RR is and how certain he is of his so called sources.

DTifosi - I too was under the impression that TD worked with Ferrari.

I did a check and I know he admitted Cecchini back in 2006.
But I have also found a lot of media reports that he had started working with Dr. Ferrari back in 2007.

 

[auscyclefan94]

DTifosi - I too was under the impression that TD worked with Ferrari.

I did a check and I know he admitted Cecchini back in 2006.
But I have also found a lot of media reports that he had started working with Dr. Ferrari back in 2007.

According to Wiki Dekker did not work with Ferrari
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_Ferrari
Though wikipedia claims that Dekker did work with Cecchini
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Cecchini#Clients

On the list in Wikipedia, i was surprised to find that Kim Kirchen, Juan Antonio Flecha and Matti Breschel were on that list.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Now Gerdemann faces the Milram music:-
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gerdemanns-2006-blood-values-produce-mixed-opinions
Not the Freiburg bloodhounds, though.

 

[sportzchick]

Does anyone know when we wil find out Australia time?

Quickly put together a list of TdF 2008 with:
1) riders that secured a podium place for any of the stages (1,2,3). They should have samples of podium finishers right?
2) confirmed dopers, like Kohl, Ricco, Beltran, Duenas, Schumacher etc
3) top 15 GC
4) For some reason, I added Voigt, Astarloza, Egoi Martinez, Ten Dam, De la Fuente (and perhaps should have added some more GST riders)

Total 56 riders (40, excl the ones caught, were said to be 'suspect')

EVANS Cadel
MCEWEN Robbie
SASTRE CANDIL Carlos
ARVESEN Kurt-Asle
CANCELLARA Fabian
SCHLECK Andy
SCHLECK Frank
VOIGT Jens
ASTARLOZA Mikel
MARTINEZ Egoi
SANCHEZ Samuel
VALVERDE Alejandro
ARROYO DURAN David
SANCHEZ GIL Luis Leon
KIRCHEN Kim
BURGHARDT Marcus
CAVENDISH Mark
CIOLEK Gerald
DUENAS NEVADO Moises
POZZATO Filippo
BELTRAN Manuel
KREUZIGER Roman
BALLAN Alessandro
HUSHOVD Thor
GERRANS Simon
BARREDO Carlos
STEEGMANS Gert
DESSEL Cyril
EFIMKIN Vladimir
ELMIGER Martin
VALJAVEC Tadej
SCHUMACHER Stefan
KOHL Bernhard
CASPER Jimmy
FEILLU Romain
MENCHOV Denis
FREIRE GOMEZ Oscar
TEN DAM Laurens
PINEAU Jérôme
ZABEL Erik
CASAR Sandy
CHAVANEL Sébastien
GILBERT Philippe
ROY Jérémy
RICCO Riccardo
COBO ACEBO Juan Jose
DE LA FUENTE David
PIEPOLI Leonardo
CHAVANEL Sylvain
DUMOULIN Samuel
DUQUE Leonardo
MOINARD Amaël
VANDEVELDE Christian
FRISCHKORN William
MILLAR David
PATE Danny

I wonder if we have seen some DNFs from people who were afraid of getting busted, after Ricco got caught.

thanks for that list

I also read that O'Grady is also being tested - tell me its not true I feel sick just thinking about it

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

It appears there are many reporters who disagree with you


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...f-Tour-de-France-after-positive-EPO-test.html


http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/news/2052/Dekker-out-of-TDF-after-dope-test



http://www.bicycle.net/2008/thomas-dekker-signs-with-team-silence-lotto-for-two-years

Which is all not true, he announced he stopped training with Cecchini, that foreign news reporters ****ed up is no proof at all. Yes I read those stories, and they were never true.

A simple mix up by below-par press in cycling news

Telegraph.co.uk -> says enough, british news source, they mix up everything when the story is about cycling. F.ex Telegraaf.nl readers are dumb enough as well. They have read once Dekker was training with Cecchini. A year later they react, wasn't he with that italian trainer? Uhm... Ferrari or something? This is the same way a lot of reporters work as well. Memory fading, mixing up people, and the bringing it as news -> sub-par reporting.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

DTifosi - I too was under the impression that TD worked with Ferrari.

I did a check and I know he admitted Cecchini back in 2006.
But I have also found a lot of media reports that he had started working with Dr. Ferrari back in 2007.

Ugh, get it to your head it is NOT true, those are sub-par media reports from, I'm sorry, below average quality cycling sites. It's a simple mix up a LOT of people made (even in the Netherlands, although here it's never reached the press)

This was 10000% absolutely NOT true. All the media reports who reported that have done none to no research and/or simply thought italian trainer..oh umm. wasnt that ferrari or something? Yes write that down..

 

[Bronstein]

Which is all not true, he announced he stopped training with Cecchini, that foreign news reporters ****ed up is no proof at all. Yes I read those stories, and they were never true.

A simple mix up by below-par press in cycling news

You are wrong.

How do you know the media reports are not true?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Because those are media sources with very below-quality cycling knowledge.

Why do you think it never was reported in good cycling countries like Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, France etc reports?

Because they don't mix up Cecchini with Ferrari, because there are actually GOOD reporters there.

Dekker never trained with Ferrari, it's simply absolute bull****. I know a lot of confused people mix Ferrari/Cecchini up, read it more on message boards. Ofcourse, Telegraph.co.uk or Sbs.au are don't have journalists that really care, so they just write something down and bring is at news.
Happens far too often.

But Dekker never trained with Ferrari, and that is a simple fact. He only worked with Cecchini. I don't understand how people can be so thick to believe something that has been reported by 3 very bad sources, but has never been reported anywhere else. How can people be so thick.
I knew the guy (Dekker) personally for the past 2 years (or so I thought I knew him), and even after 'breaking' with Cecchini, he still came there regularly.

The only thing Dekker ever did with Ferrari, was to drive in one (and he even borrowed that one)

But ok, I laugh at people who can't even understand when a common mix-up has been made or who believe everything that has been written by a journalist, even if it is from GB, Australia and some below par cycling news site.

 

[BroDeal]

Because those are media sources with very below-quality cycling knowledge.

Why do you think it never was reported in good cycling countries like Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, France etc reports?

Because they don't mix up Cecchini with Ferrari, because there are actually GOOD reporters there.

Dekker never trained with Ferrari, it's simply absolute bull****. I know a lot of confused people mix Ferrari/Cecchini up, read it more on message boards. Ofcourse, Telegraph.co.uk or Sbs.au are don't have journalists that really care, so they just write something down and bring is at news.
Happens far too often.

But Dekker never trained with Ferrari, and that is a simple fact. He only worked with Cecchini. I don't understand how people can be so thick to believe something that has been reported by 3 very bad sources, but has never been reported anywhere else. How can people be so thick.
I knew the guy (Dekker) personally for the past 2 years (or so I thought I knew him), and even after 'breaking' with Cecchini, he still came there regularly.
The only thing Dekker ever did with Ferrari, was to drive in a Ferrari he borrowed :lol:

It is not like Ferrari advertises who he "trains," especially in the current climate. It would be difficult to categorically say that anyone never worked with Ferrari.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Dekker did not train with Ferrari. It's as simple as that. He worked with Cecchini, and most certainly went to Austria from time to time.

But he simply did not work for Ferrari, no matter how many times SBS.au or telegraph.co.uk suck things from their thumb
Sorry to dissapoint people who still believe in fairy tales like RR.

 

[Anonymous]

Dekker did not train with Ferrari. It's as simple as that. He worked with Cecchini, and most certainly went to Austria from time to time.

But he simply did not work for Ferrari, no matter how many times SBS.au or telegraph.co.uk suck things from their thumb
Sorry to dissapoint people who still believe in fairy tales like RR.

You are the Dekker fan who defended him right up to the point where he was busted. I think fairy tales are your specialty sir.

 

[samb01]

Seems odd to me to feel the need to insist that Dekker was working with Ferrari when there is absolutely no proof of such a connection. As Dekker_Tifosi said, try digging up a credible reference in dutch or italian media. SBS.au? **** off.

We know Dekker worked with Cecchini, and we can be reasonably certain he was a Humanplasma customer. There is no need to bring in Ferrari.

 

[Bala Verde]

I tend to follow the news closely in multiple languages and I have never read any report linking Dekker to Ferrari. Media in Belgium, the Netherlands or Spain have indicated or even hinted at such relations, as far as I know.

In the Netherlands it had become a public secret that he 'trained' with Checchini, which many cycling fans frowned upon, including me, and who suspected he had chosen the dark side.

The only way I found a link between Dekker and Ferrari is when I googled both terms. The result: the telegraph, bike radar and bicycle.net

But we are straying away from the original topic, namely that the stars of 2008 must be shivering like a leaf...

 

[Anonymous]

Does it really matter that much anyway? He was busted for doping. I am sure there are numerous people in that process whose names we do not know, and never will considering Dekker is taking the cowards path and keeping the secrets. I wonder who helped him dope as a junior, etc, etc etc. So Ferrari was most probably not involved. Who was other than Checchini? Will the smarmy little freak ever detail the way Kohl did? Doesn't appear so.

 

[El Loto]

According to Wiki Dekker did not work with Ferrari
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_Ferrari
Though wikipedia claims that Dekker did work with Cecchini
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Cecchini#Clients

On the list in Wikipedia, i was surprised to find that Kim Kirchen, Juan Antonio Flecha and Matti Breschel were on that list.

Wiki is absolutely the wrong source to use here.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

You are the Dekker fan who defended him right up to the point where he was busted. I think fairy tales are your specialty sir.

This is absolutely different. You know that. You have to come up with something better than very sub-standard reports from journalists who probably don't even know that Cecchini and Ferrari are actually two different persons.
There are no credible links from good cycling sources. Not even the Germans (!!) have reported such, and they are the experts when it comes to doping nowadays (they discovered freiburg and austria incidents..)

 

[Kennf1]

Does it really matter that much anyway? He was busted for doping. I am sure there are numerous people in that process whose names we do not know, and never will considering Dekker is taking the cowards path and keeping the secrets. I wonder who helped him dope as a junior, etc, etc etc. So Ferrari was most probably not involved. Who was other than Checchini? Will the smarmy little freak ever detail the way Kohl did? Doesn't appear so.

No kidding. God knows we wouldn't want to tarnish the reputation of a busted doper by affiliating him with Ferrari.

 

[fatandfast]

I am puzzled why McQuaid keeps getting his job back without anybody thinking they can do a better job. Do any of these organizations have any dignity and integrity? How would anybody know it was 40 names? Because Kohl says? These people can't keep anything to themselves and the chain of custody should be a big enough issue to stop any further testing. Unless they can test everybody from the 2008 TDF it would be a witch hunt. Linus has been tested all year without result and now some lab rat says his values are suspect? Come on do your homework, there has got to be a statute of limitations or a zero reference point where they say we are starting from here, getting suspended for a 2 year old blood that has been in the hands of clinical clowns is not funny.It would seem that part of getting their tests right would to get a big dose of credibility.

 

[samb01]

No kidding. God knows we wouldn't want to tarnish the reputation of a busted doper by affiliating him with Ferrari.

That's hardly the point.

 

[350Watts]

Because those are media sources with very below-quality cycling knowledge.

Why do you think it never was reported in good cycling countries like Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, France etc reports?

Because they don't mix up Cecchini with Ferrari, because there are actually GOOD reporters there.

Dekker never trained with Ferrari, it's simply absolute bull****. I know a lot of confused people mix Ferrari/Cecchini up, read it more on message boards. Ofcourse, Telegraph.co.uk or Sbs.au are don't have journalists that really care, so they just write something down and bring is at news.
Happens far too often.

But Dekker never trained with Ferrari, and that is a simple fact. He only worked with Cecchini. I don't understand how people can be so thick to believe something that has been reported by 3 very bad sources, but has never been reported anywhere else. How can people be so thick.
I knew the guy (Dekker) personally for the past 2 years (or so I thought I knew him), and even after 'breaking' with Cecchini, he still came there regularly.

The only thing Dekker ever did with Ferrari, was to drive in one (and he even borrowed that one)

But ok, I laugh at people who can't even understand when a common mix-up has been made or who believe everything that has been written by a journalist, even if it is from GB, Australia and some below par cycling news site.

Um.....who cares he is a DOPER.

Dekker = Doper.

 

[Bala Verde]

Does it really matter that much anyway?

Of course it matters. It is one thing to speculate that someone is doping based on qualified sources that link a rider with 'evil doers', all of this obviously in absence of pictures from riders with syringes hanging from their arms.

It's an entirely different matter to fabricate such connections. If you allow it to happen now, then who is to say that it doesn't happen in the future. When people start rumouring that 'insert any given rider' worked with 'insert any given (doping) doctor', I'd like to have that cleared if it is untruthful, regardless if he is/was working with any other doctor.

The Anglo-Saxon cycling community seems already quite devoid from quality sources in general, since cycling is such a non-issue and few reporters are engrained in the European cycling scene. Thus debunking myths based on access to foreign language sources should in a way be regarded as doing one a favour.